• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Would you want a gun in this situation?

Would you want a gun in this situation?

  • I am anti-gun, and I would want a gun.

    Votes: 2 3.4%

  • I am anti-gun, and I wouldn't want a gun.

    Votes: 4 6.8%

  • I am pro-gun, and I would want a gun.

    Votes: 51 86.4%

  • I am pro-gun, and I wouldn't want a gun.

    Votes: 2 3.4%
  • Total voters
    59
SouthernDemocrat said:
I think its funny that there are people that live in a neighborhood like this one below:

View attachment 67166544

That live in some mortal fear of some sort of home invasion and thus arm themselves to the teeth against it.... despite the odds of such a thing happening to them in that kind of a community being astronomically small. Yet they might smoke, eat poorly, or not exercise regularly, and thus practically insure they will not live as long as they otherwise would have. And or they allow their kids to eat poorly and become overweight or obese, and thus practically insure that their kids will not live as long as they otherwise would have.

I say this as a gun owner and I am pro-gun, but it has been my experience though that those that are armed to the teeth because of some irrational fear of being raped or murdered by armed gangs in their home are usually some of the worst judges of actual risk out there.
Click to expand...


I have ONE house semi-automatic. That's it.

Everything else is having a plan and flashlight and a way to call 911 and an actual place to take cover.

And those are exactly the kind of houses that get broken into...they look well off. Smash and grab....and maybe miss that your wife or a kid is home. I lived on a cul-de-sac like that for 7 yrs before I moved to this place. Our cars, if left on the street or in the driveway, were broken into all the time. So were garages. We just beat the odds I guess that no house was.

I cant believe how lame the other guy is just assuming his LE neighbors will come to their rescue. Even WOMEN should be ready and prepared to protect themselves and take some action, even if they choose not to use fireams. What kind of a man has a plan that is, "oh it wont happen and if it does, I'll wait for the cops?"
 
Robbie Loucks said:
I just hope you can differentiate between people who want gun control and people who actually want guns banned from public use.
Click to expand...

What people use guns in public? You mean criminals? I think there are already laws against their crimes...

So who else is using guns in public?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Ah. I'm surprised you didn't understand that most people out there can't shoot straight when the crap hits the fan...which is why a shotgun is a much better weapon - even someone with very little training can hit a target when it's within 15 feet - they don't have to take nearly so much time to aim. And before that, you have to remember that nobody - including those 2-3 attackers - wants to die...and that's what they'll be thinking about when they hear that unmistakable sound of the shotgun's action.
Click to expand...

True, and depending on the home/neighbors, not everyone can use certain guns. A shotgun is sometimes a good option...but in my case 18 bullets that I can fire fast and whereever I want also works. That is what would work best for ME in my home.

I cannot imagine why someone thinks they should be able to tell me how many I NEED to save my life in my home. Or in a parking lot accosted by 3 men.

Because you are right....every video shows even the cops missing with many of their shots. Under all that stress. And yet people would STILL demand I have less bullets and less chance of saving my life.

(And I practice shooting under some stress, timed, in competition, and moving. I know that it affects you. So it just amazes me that people wish to remove what few advantages I have.)
 
Glen Contrarian said:
. Do you really think I didn't take all that into account?
Click to expand...

Yes. I certainly did. Have you actually DONE IT?


OTOH, my bedroom suite is also rather convoluted and misleading...an advantage...and it also provides real cover, not just concealment....which isnt all that common inside a house. So maybe your set up will keep intruders out for....I dont know....how long will it take the cops to get there?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I'm curious about how anti-gunners would feel in real, dangerous situations. It's easy to decry the horrors of gun ownership in the safety of your armchair, but if the lives of you and your family were at risk would your convictions still hold?

The scenario:
It's late at night in your house, you and your family are asleep, when armed men break in. You don't know if they're there to rob you, rape you, murder you, or all of the above. At that point would you wish you had a gun?

The way I see it, if you're anti-gun and would still want a gun to defend yourself in this scenario you're a hypocrite. This isn't an absurd scenario. It happens daily in just about every country in the world. So what say you?
Click to expand...
It's an obvious situation for a gun, but it's also a stretch to make it sound that this is even remotely likely to happen to 99.9999% of the the whole--that's 1 in a million for those who suck at math.
 
I don't understand this poll! if I follow the situation up to the point to where the homeowner realizes he needs a gun and doesn't have one, what the heck is wishing for one going to do for you? You would be better off wishing the perp gets struck by lightning, or wish for some wings so you can fly out of the window to safety.

A gun is like a parachute. if you need one and don't have one..........chances are you will never need one again.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Every time you interview people, the first words are "I never thought something like that would happen here". Your assumptions are off base.
Click to expand...

Its a question of risk. The reason why someone would state "I never thought something like that would happen here." is the odds of it are extremely small. For example, the murder rate, which would include the much more common domestic homicides, is 1.1 per 100,000 in the county I live in. Considering that the majority of murders are committed by other members of your family or those you are acquainted with in some way, the odds of being a victim of a home invasion style murder in my county is literally millions to one.

In comparison, the odds of developing lung cancer if you are a smoker is 1 in 5 with a survival rate of less than 50%. The odds of developing type 2 diabetes if you are overweight is 1 in 3. The odds of dying prematurely due to heart disease if you are overweight is 1 in 5. Now I don't know about you, but I know a fair number of people that are overweight, don't exercise regularly, don't eat that well, or smoke that are armed to the teeth for fear of being a victim of a violent crime. They worry about something happening to them that is extraordinarily rare for the community they live in, but they obviously don't understand the risk of what their lifestyle choices entail, and maybe committing themselves to a horrible death from cancer or some other chronic disease because of it. Point being, a lot of people are very poor judges of risk.
 
Lursa said:
I have ONE house semi-automatic. That's it.

Everything else is having a plan and flashlight and a way to call 911 and an actual place to take cover.

And those are exactly the kind of houses that get broken into...they look well off. Smash and grab....and maybe miss that your wife or a kid is home. I lived on a cul-de-sac like that for 7 yrs before I moved to this place. Our cars, if left on the street or in the driveway, were broken into all the time. So were garages. We just beat the odds I guess that no house was.

I cant believe how lame the other guy is just assuming his LE neighbors will come to their rescue. Even WOMEN should be ready and prepared to protect themselves and take some action, even if they choose not to use fireams. What kind of a man has a plan that is, "oh it wont happen and if it does, I'll wait for the cops?"
Click to expand...

There is no doubt that there is property crime in wealthier communities. However, once again its a question of risk. The murder rate during a burglary is extremely low. The vast, vast majority of property crimes occur when you are not in the home.

Once again, I am a gun owner, I keep a shotgun in our bedroom closet at home. I am pro-gun. However, the scenario outlined in the opening post from a statistical perspective is only slightly more likely than a zombie apocalypse.
 
calamity said:
It's an obvious situation for a gun, but it's also a stretch to make it sound that this is even remotely likely to happen to 99.9999% of the the whole--that's 1 in a million for those who suck at math.
Click to expand...

People break into people's houses at nite while they're in bed all the time. It's pretty common. It's more common than house fires, at least how it's reported in the news. It's even more common where it is just a woman alone or with young kids.

And it just kills me too...there was such an attack here 2 yrs ago. two women alone, and guy broke in with a knife. If they had had ANY plans or preparation, they could very well have survived. As it was, one was killed and one seriously injured. Both were raped. With actual planning ahead, there's a good chance they might only have been wounded or not injured at all.

When you are not prepared, the attacker has all the advantages....too many people just freeze and obey.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Its a question of risk. The reason why someone would state "I never thought something like that would happen here." is the odds of it are extremely small. For example, the murder rate, which would include the much more common domestic homicides, is 1.1 per 100,000 in the county I live in. Considering that the majority of murders are committed by other members of your family or those you are acquainted with in some way, the odds of being a victim of a home invasion style murder in my county is literally millions to one.
Click to expand...

That cant be correct, you are just throwing stuff out here to see what sticks.

We hear of home invasions or break-ins while people are home more than once a week here and Seattle only has about a million people. The Seattle metro area, 1.7 million.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
There is no doubt that there is property crime in wealthier communities. However, once again its a question of risk. The murder rate during a burglary is extremely low. The vast, vast majority of property crimes occur when you are not in the home.

Once again, I am a gun owner, I keep a shotgun in our bedroom closet at home. I am pro-gun. However, the scenario outlined in the opening post from a statistical perspective is only slightly more likely than a zombie apocalypse.
Click to expand...

Mine was not affluent, We all had basic split levels or ramblers, like mine (1100 sq feet). Everybody has electronics that can be grabbed fast.

Low? Yes. Extremely low? No, it's on the news all the time.

And again, you are completely wrong about the OP scenario. They've had shows on the Discovery channel that demontrated and helped people plan for things like home invasion, house fire, sudden flooding, etc.

Hey....if you want to stick with the unrealistic nature and low risk of home invasions, they people shouldnt bother worrying about hardening the defenses or other planning in our schools. Those shooting are extremely rare and there are solid #s to prove that.
 
Lursa said:
That cant be correct, you are just throwing stuff out here to see what sticks.

We hear of home invasions or break-ins while people are home more than once a week here and Seattle only has about a million people. The Seattle metro area, 1.7 million.
Click to expand...

I "hear of" aliens landing and performing experiments on people too. Doesn't make it true.

Here's a fact.
Nationwide, there are about 100 burglary-homicides every year. When you compare that to more than 18,000 gun suicides, the conclusions seem pretty obvious.

Gun Violence and the Irrational Fear of Home Invasion - Ta-Nehisi Coates - The Atlantic
Click to expand...

So that's 1 in 3 million.
 
Lursa said:
That cant be correct, you are just throwing stuff out here to see what sticks.

We hear of home invasions or break-ins while people are home more than once a week here and Seattle only has about a million people. The Seattle metro area, 1.7 million.
Click to expand...

In the city of Seattle, which would certainly be a higher violent crime rate than its suburbs, there were 23 murders in 2013. That equates to a murder rate of 3.7 per 100,000. As I stated earlier the majority of those are between family members or acquaintances. Random murders are quite rare, so even in a major city like Seattle the odds of being killed in a violent home invasion are extremely small. The reason why it makes the news is precisely because it is rare and shocking.

Do you think that the evening news in DR Congo leads with the local murder? Probably not because they are so common there. So it takes much more to be shocking to the locals.
 
Lursa said:
Mine was not affluent, We all had basic split levels or ramblers, like mine (1100 sq feet). Everybody has electronics that can be grabbed fast.

Low? Yes. Extremely low? No, it's on the news all the time.

And again, you are completely wrong about the OP scenario. They've had shows on the Discovery channel that demontrated and helped people plan for things like home invasion, house fire, sudden flooding, etc.

Hey....if you want to stick with the unrealistic nature and low risk of home invasions, they people shouldnt bother worrying about hardening the defenses or other planning in our schools. Those shooting are extremely rare and there are solid #s to prove that.
Click to expand...

Odds a house experiencing a fire in any given year: 0.317%

Odds of a house flooding that is outside of a flood plain: Basically its Noah's Ark territory.

That is not to say you should not be prepared for a house fire, or a flood, or you shouldn't have a gun to protect yourself, but the odds are quite small just the same.
 
Kreton said:
No. Keeping your family out of a gunfight has much higher survival rates than knowingly putting them in the middle of a gunfight where you are out numbered.
Click to expand...

We are not talking about keeping them out of a gun fight, a fight is on. Per the OP. Either that or you are willing to be at the mercy of the criminal.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Its a question of risk. The reason why someone would state "I never thought something like that would happen here." is the odds of it are extremely small. For example, the murder rate, which would include the much more common domestic homicides, is 1.1 per 100,000 in the county I live in. Considering that the majority of murders are committed by other members of your family or those you are acquainted with in some way, the odds of being a victim of a home invasion style murder in my county is literally millions to one.

In comparison, the odds of developing lung cancer if you are a smoker is 1 in 5 with a survival rate of less than 50%. The odds of developing type 2 diabetes if you are overweight is 1 in 3. The odds of dying prematurely due to heart disease if you are overweight is 1 in 5. Now I don't know about you, but I know a fair number of people that are overweight, don't exercise regularly, don't eat that well, or smoke that are armed to the teeth for fear of being a victim of a violent crime. They worry about something happening to them that is extraordinarily rare for the community they live in, but they obviously don't understand the risk of what their lifestyle choices entail, and maybe committing themselves to a horrible death from cancer or some other chronic disease because of it. Point being, a lot of people are very poor judges of risk.
Click to expand...
Do you keep a fire extinguisher in your home?
 
Lursa said:
I dont know where you got that number but how about some sources.

And it's obvious you have done what you need to sleep at nite. I hope you never find out.

I hope I never find out.
Click to expand...

I, of course, agree that hopefully, we never find out.

I have a 1911 loaded with hollow points, 15 of them. I did wake my wife up last night. I was sleep walking again. I was incapable of finding the bathroom, so I figure my pistol is safe stashed in the closet. She thought that I was an intruder. No sense putting guns under our pillows.

That 10000 number is superficial.
 
calamity said:
I "hear of" aliens landing and performing experiments on people too. Doesn't make it true.

Here's a fact.


So that's 1 in 3 million.
Click to expand...

How about rapes? How about the older couple that were tied up and beaten and left for dead? (Several times a yr here.) How about the people shot that didnt die?

These types of breakins are on the news weekly...with people HOME. SOmetimes they do not get harmed....if it's your family, would you rather be prepared to protect them or stand there and leave your fate in the hands of the attackers?

And suicide rates have nothing to do with this...that is someone intentionally doing something and I personally do not care about them. THat is their problem, that and what they do to their families. It may sound callous but their problems should have NOTHING to do with MY rights to own/carry a firearm. My only sympathy is for our vets.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Odds a house experiencing a fire in any given year: 0.317%

Odds of a house flooding that is outside of a flood plain: Basically its Noah's Ark territory.

That is not to say you should not be prepared for a house fire, or a flood, or you shouldn't have a gun to protect yourself, but the odds are quite small just the same.
Click to expand...

And the point of the OP is....WOULD YOU prepare for that scenario?

So thanks for proving his point, and mine.

Do you have fire drills and plans for a house fire with your family?
 
I'm pro gun and would want a gun in this situation.

No one ever thinks it going to happen to them but yet it happens. Don't be a victim.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I think its funny that there are people that live in a neighborhood like this one below:

View attachment 67166544

That live in some mortal fear of some sort of home invasion and thus arm themselves to the teeth against it.... despite the odds of such a thing happening to them in that kind of a community being astronomically small. Yet they might smoke, eat poorly, or not exercise regularly, and thus practically insure they will not live as long as they otherwise would have. And or they allow their kids to eat poorly and become overweight or obese, and thus practically insure that their kids will not live as long as they otherwise would have.

I say this as a gun owner and I am pro-gun, but it has been my experience though that those that are armed to the teeth because of some irrational fear of being raped or murdered by armed gangs in their home are usually some of the worst judges of actual risk out there.
Click to expand...

Research has shown that the hours of television someone watches is directly related to their perception that the risk of violence is higher than it actually is.
 
haymarket said:
Believing that one knows what the 55 Founders had in mind in terms of intent is indeed PRETENDING. It is also an act of intellectual arrogance not to mention invoking a tactic reeking of intellectual dishonesty since one DOES NOT have to discuss what actually is but can then pretend to somehow magically "know" what was in the minds of 55 people who have been dead some two centuries now and who live in a world that has changed radically from the one they lived in.

People who write documents and laws are often surprised when their very words come back to bite them in the ass with unforeseen consequences. In my three years working in the Michigan legislature I worked on many bills. A good percentage of my time was going back to previously enacted legislation which was now on the books as law but had some unforeseen result or consequence that the writer or some backer had no foreseen. All legislatures have this problem and some jokingly call it an effort to clean up behind the elephant which has already walked through town. Why should the results of the Founders work be any different? They provided what they provided and if their powers to look into the future and predict with 100% accuracy the results of their work is not what they may have hoped it would be - then so be it as simply the nature of the game.
Click to expand...

Many people consider the Founding Fathers to be saints guided by God who were incapable of making any mistakes.
 
Hard Truth said:
Research has shown that the hours of television someone watches is directly related to their perception that the risk of violence is higher than it actually is.
Click to expand...

Then I'd expect most Americans to be terrified and armed to the teeth.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom