• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

History: Love It, Hate It, Don't Care About It?

History: How Do You Feel?

  • History's dangerous, we should focus on our society now. Not that important.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • History's just a bunch of wars we've won and lost, who cares?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    18

Ad_Captandum

Active member
Joined
Jul 25, 2013
Messages
468
Reaction score
184
Location
Britain, Mother of Civilisation
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Hello everyone.

It crossed my mind a few days ago that a shocking number of people don't seem to know or care much about the history of their own country, let alone the world. This, to me, is lunacy -- I love history, and I can't get enough of it.

To me, history is the story of where humanity has been, how we got where we are, and even where we're going. It is vitally important to understand history to understand politics, philosophy, law, or really any other element of our society.

So I put the question to you, Debate Politics. Are you history buffs? Do you go out of your way to learn more about history? Do you think it's as vital to understanding politics as I do?

Or am I living in the past?
 
Hello everyone.

It crossed my mind a few days ago that a shocking number of people don't seem to know or care much about the history of their own country, let alone the world. This, to me, is lunacy -- I love history, and I can't get enough of it.

To me, history is the story of where humanity has been, how we got where we are, and even where we're going. It is vitally important to understand history to understand politics, philosophy, law, or really any other element of our society.

So I put the question to you, Debate Politics. Are you history buffs? Do you go out of your way to learn more about history? Do you think it's as vital to understanding politics as I do?

Or am I living in the past?

History is in a three-way tie for my favorite subject.

And yes, History is fundamental to having a grasp on politics, otherwise, you're not doing it right.
 
............doomed to repeat it.
 
Majored in History so I guess its a safe bet to say I find it a fascinating subject.
 
The full quote is "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Surely this would be a strong support of more historical learning in schools?

Teaching are children subjects like history and math doesn't matter much when they don't know how to enjoy and be empowered by them. The gestalt theory of education that dominates the institutions of learning needs some serious revision.
 
Hello everyone.

It crossed my mind a few days ago that a shocking number of people don't seem to know or care much about the history of their own country, let alone the world. This, to me, is lunacy -- I love history, and I can't get enough of it.

To me, history is the story of where humanity has been, how we got where we are, and even where we're going. It is vitally important to understand history to understand politics, philosophy, law, or really any other element of our society.

So I put the question to you, Debate Politics. Are you history buffs? Do you go out of your way to learn more about history? Do you think it's as vital to understanding politics as I do?

Or am I living in the past?



I am a pretty big history buff... came close to majoring in history in college, did take some graduate-level history courses.

I believe that without an understanding of history (and I don't mean being able to recite dates and names so much as an understanding of WHAT happened and HOW and WHY) a person lacks perspective on the era in which they live.
 
The full quote is "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Surely this would be a strong support of more historical learning in schools?

So long as its not the watered down highly sanitized History I was taught. But there's slim chance of that happening.

Have you ever read Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong by James Loewen? If no, I definitely recommend it.
 
I'm more enamored with ancient (before western civilization) history. But I do appreciate American western history.
 
Me in a museum is like a kid in a candy store, I find history intriguing. That being said, I also find myself ashamed to be part of such a self-destructive, pathetically greedy species.
 
Does Sergio Leone's work count as "western history"? :)

I didn't pay attention to the historical content of his movies but, probably. (I actually like the spaghetti western better than some of the American-made ones)
 
So long as its not the watered down highly sanitized History I was taught. But there's slim chance of that happening.

Have you ever read Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong by James Loewen? If no, I definitely recommend it.

I totally agree. You have to have an understanding of history in all its perspectives and facets, good, bad, and both.

You need to know that the United States has lost plenty of wars. You need to know the United States has won plenty of wars, too.

You need to know about the genocide of the Indians, but you need to know about Civil Rights, as well. You need to know that the US Civil War was as much about slavery, despite what revisionists say, as it was about states' rights.

But you need to know other stuff too! You, as an American, need to know about the English Civil War, Parliamentarians vs. Royalists. You need to know about the French Revolution.

You need to know that the Soviet Union really did win World War II, and it's okay to admit that, because it doesn't make Stalin any less of a monster to acknowledge it. You need to know that the United States commanded its troops not to loot Beijing when the British were auctioning off the Forbidden City's treasures. But you need to know that the Americans tortured people in Abu Ghraib, too.

I think it's really, really fundamental to understand that every country has done good and bad. That's not a nice way of saying America needs to know it's done some ****ty stuff -- I think most Americans know that. What I also want Americans to know is that Russia and the Soviet Union also did lots of really great stuff.

History's the story of everyone, and it must be told right.
 
Me in a museum is like a kid in a candy store, I find history intriguing. That being said, I also find myself ashamed to be part of such a self-destructive, pathetically greedy species.

I have to admit I have a perverse pride in our species' pitfalls. It's incredible to see what we have built both because of and in spite of our nature.
 
i'm fascinated by history. glad to live in the age of the internet, though, so i have instant access to all of that information.
 
Hello everyone.

It crossed my mind a few days ago that a shocking number of people don't seem to know or care much about the history of their own country, let alone the world. This, to me, is lunacy -- I love history, and I can't get enough of it.

To me, history is the story of where humanity has been, how we got where we are, and even where we're going. It is vitally important to understand history to understand politics, philosophy, law, or really any other element of our society.

So I put the question to you, Debate Politics. Are you history buffs? Do you go out of your way to learn more about history? Do you think it's as vital to understanding politics as I do?

Or am I living in the past?

I intended to be a history professor until dismal job prospects in the mid 1970's (15,000 unemployed history Ph.D.'s) pushed me in a different direction. (I don't regret that, btw.) I nonetheless never lost my interest in or appreciation for history. It is striking how a minority of posters here, otherwise reasonably well educated, regularly demonstrate a lack of historical knowledge or understanding. Fortunately, DP seems to attract those with an interest in history.:peace
 
I studied enough history that I don't really want to study anymore... I mean really study. Once you really understand all the crap that was going on back in the day you're just grateful that you live in a better time.

Ofc, you can choose not to read a lot of personal accounts that people made there, you know, not learn by the stories but by the numbers. And that's a way. But I prefer to learn the stories.

The periods that are most interesting to me were the classical period and antiquity... so study the ancient greeks, study the romans especially... learn about the persians a bit to know that they were wankers but you know, civilized wankers... it also serves a good lesson in understanding that great civilizations like the ancient egyptians, if you don't keep up with the times, you'll get burried and that's what happened, the persians took them over. The persians are very fascinating people. Still wankers though but fascinating wankers. So it was fun for me to study all of them in depth. The Romans were quite an amazing people, I dare say, the greatest people who ever lived and they're the ones who really set up the west to be the center of progress and civilization. And ofc, we learn things every day. Just recently there was this discovery that Rome had been there for over 100 years before it's alleged founding by Romulus and Remus myth.

I studied the dark ages and medieval period more closely because I wanted to academically slap the idiots who didn't know crap about those periods and think it was the time when europe was overrun by savages and it was a gaping pit hole from all perspectives... which is quite untrue. It's a pretty fascinating period mostly in how things kinda take unexpected twists. The byzantines are also quite probably the most interesting civilization to exist. More so than the Romans because ofc, they were Romans but not just. The byzantines were more... fair romans let me put it this way. Ofc, some savages had to come and destroy them but that's life. Nothing good can last forever.

And ofc, I loved everything from the renaissance to the late XIXth century. I mean I studied a lot about that period and I love it. It's really nice. One area that I lacked when I studied that period and that has sort of diminished, I feel, my educational experience in the years I devoured entire books on the subject.... was that I neglected the in depth study of great people and great cultural movements and track them minutely as to how they shaped the era. I was more interested in how leaders acted, the way countries formed and reformed, how they changed... how wars were done, who won vs who, who got liberated, who got subjugated, the building and fall of empires and the rise of new nations... and a lot of stories behind great men of state. And the whole massive artistic movements that happened were like.... on the side, just touching on them... never exploring them in depth. Which lately, in the past year especially, I've come to regret. Because I watched these documentaries about the artistic movements and the artists. I mean last month there was this amazing documentary, 3 parts, about the life of Haydn... and about Rubens and many others. And cultural movements in depth... etc. and how better my pool of knowledge would have been if I had read books about the great men of culture and the artisitc developments of that time.

So not to know them, I knew what they were and like, the readers' digest version of them and who the main actors in each cultural movement was.. and the artists and what naught. But never in depth. And yeah... it's much more fun. I mean much more exciting and less mentally scarring than to read and understand the horrors of all the ****ing wars and the... well they're obvious now, mistakes that so many leaders and heads of countries did to devastating effects. So yeah. Art history is not stupid as I had thought 8 years ago when I was devouring book after book on history.

And ofc, the XXth century is the one that kinda... didn't wanna touch it all that much. I mean I studied it because again, everyone and their dog thinks they know stuff about WW1 and WW2 and I needed to learn to mock them and slap them back into their corner when they spoke idiocy... but it's too sensitive. It's too... innapropiate to talk about because there isn't enough distance from ww2 in particular to be able to talk on an academic level and LEARN from it rather than submitting to the FEELZ that people have on the issue.

-----------

Ofc, this is about European and by extension, also western history. I studied a bit about chinesse history mainly because you'll see on the interents all these people who keep praising the "chinesse bureaucracy" system that they had in place as some amazing thing. And it was an amazing thing but it's not like... so amazing that you need to gasp and wet yourself over it.

And then ofc, I studied some history about India mainly because I studied about the UK... and because people kept saying that Britain did all this nasty stuff to India. Which you know... I kinda disagree with. Because I read the history of that subcontinent and let me tell you, I don't have a deeper hatred for anything in this world than I do for hinduism. It's like, awful. caste system ridden eternal enslavement crap. This alone will make you depressed.


---

But yeah, history is fun.. .but it's depressing. To me, it was a rollercoaster experience. I read things that made me wanna stop reading and throw away the books. Because they're horrid. I read things that made me angry and I couldn't even sleep at night. And I read things that made me laugh and made me happy.

And then I decided to become really good at math and technical sciences because I wanted to become an engineer and the only times those give you emotions is when you're pulling your hair because you're an idiot and can't grasp the concepts.
 
History is okay in moderation, it's important to know where we've been, at least in general terms but some people go way too far. I'm much more interested in where we're going.
 
I totally agree. You have to have an understanding of history in all its perspectives and facets, good, bad, and both.

You need to know that the United States has lost plenty of wars. You need to know the United States has won plenty of wars, too.

You need to know about the genocide of the Indians, but you need to know about Civil Rights, as well. You need to know that the US Civil War was as much about slavery, despite what revisionists say, as it was about states' rights.

But you need to know other stuff too! You, as an American, need to know about the English Civil War, Parliamentarians vs. Royalists. You need to know about the French Revolution.

You need to know that the Soviet Union really did win World War II, and it's okay to admit that, because it doesn't make Stalin any less of a monster to acknowledge it. You need to know that the United States commanded its troops not to loot Beijing when the British were auctioning off the Forbidden City's treasures. But you need to know that the Americans tortured people in Abu Ghraib, too.

I think it's really, really fundamental to understand that every country has done good and bad. That's not a nice way of saying America needs to know it's done some ****ty stuff -- I think most Americans know that. What I also want Americans to know is that Russia and the Soviet Union also did lots of really great stuff.

History's the story of everyone, and it must be told right.

The Red Army certainly shouldered the main burden of ground war against the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS, but the US 8th Air Force destroyed the Luftwaffe and in coordinated attacks with Britain's Bomber Command crippled German industry. After 6 June 1944 the western allies occupied about one third of German ground power, and the units that Hitler threw into the Battle of the Bulge were not available to stop the Soviets in the East. Sometimes overlooked, Red Army logistics relied heavily on US-made trucks. And finally, the USSR played virtually no role in the defeat of Japan. That was US work, with modest assistance from the Brits.:peace
 
Last edited:
Hello everyone.

It crossed my mind a few days ago that a shocking number of people don't seem to know or care much about the history of their own country, let alone the world. This, to me, is lunacy -- I love history, and I can't get enough of it.

To me, history is the story of where humanity has been, how we got where we are, and even where we're going. It is vitally important to understand history to understand politics, philosophy, law, or really any other element of our society.

So I put the question to you, Debate Politics. Are you history buffs? Do you go out of your way to learn more about history? Do you think it's as vital to understanding politics as I do?

Or am I living in the past?

History is very important to me. When my sister and I went to Dallas, Texas a few years ago to visit her son, one of the first places I wanted to see was Dealy Plaza. It was just fascinating to actually look at the Texas School Book depository, the grassy knoll, etc. The next place I want to visit is Washington, DC.
 
The Red Army certainly shouldered the main burden of ground war against the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS, but the US 8th Air Force destroyed the Luftwaffe and in coordinated attacks with Britain's Bomber Command crippled German industry. After 6 June 1944 the western allies occupied about one third of German ground power, and the units that Hitler threw into the Battle of the Bulge were not available to stop the Soviets in the East. Sometimes overlooked, Red Army logistics relied heavily on US-made trucks. And finally, the USSR played virtually no role in the defeat of Japan. That was US work, with modest assistance from the Brits.:peace

While I'm not particularly interested in debating who won World War II (because it does come up SO often -- and it's always left with: Yep, the Soviets did the dying, the Americans did the buying, and the Brits did the flying), I would like to point out a little-known theatre of the war:

The Soviet Far East. It was the Red Army that defeated the majority of the Japanese Army, and captured the entire Kwantung Army in Manchuria in 1945. While the US took care of the IJN, the Red Army, mixed with China, the British Empire, and Asian partisans were the main forces against the Imperial Japanese Army.

In fact, some historians think that the reason Japan surrendered when it did was as much because they were scared the Soviets would invade as the atomic bombings.

Fascinating, huh?

Edit: Wikipedia seems to think that the Soviet Air Force engaged and destroyed more than 70% of the Luftwaffe. Do you have any evidence that this is incorrect?
 
While I'm not particularly interested in debating who won World War II (because it does come up SO often -- and it's always left with: Yep, the Soviets did the dying, the Americans did the buying, and the Brits did the flying), I would like to point out a little-known theatre of the war:

The Soviet Far East. It was the Red Army that defeated the majority of the Japanese Army, and captured the entire Kwantung Army in Manchuria in 1945. While the US took care of the IJN, the Red Army, mixed with China, the British Empire, and Asian partisans were the main forces against the Imperial Japanese Army.

In fact, some historians think that the reason Japan surrendered when it did was as much because they were scared the Soviets would invade as the atomic bombings.

Fascinating, huh?

Edit: Wikipedia seems to think that the Soviet Air Force engaged and destroyed more than 70% of the Luftwaffe. Do you have any evidence that this is incorrect?

By 1945 the Kwantung Army was a hollow shell of its former self, with much of its strength withdrawn to the home islands to oppose the expected US invasion. Soviet impact against the Japanese army was negligible. As for the Luftwaffe, the 70% number only works if quality is discounted. The best aircraft and pilots were in the west to oppose the US and UK over Germany itself.:peace
 
Back
Top Bottom