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Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

Who is more afraid? The one who feels he needs a gun, or the one who doesn't?

  • The person who feels he needs a gun is the one who's more afraid.

    Votes: 28 77.8%

  • The person who does NOT feel he needs a gun is the one who's more afraid.

    Votes: 8 22.2%
  • Total voters
    36
Goshin said:
From your own cited link:



If there are 15,000 suicides per year and around 300,000 DGU's a year, DGU's outnumber suicides by 20 to 1.

Accidents hardly bear talking about, as they don't even amount to a fraction of that and have been trending downward for 40 years.

I'd be quick to say that someone who IS suicidal or prone to it probably should not own a gun. Those not so inclined however appear to be more likely to use a firearm in self-defense by a vast margin, than the canard of "oh you'll just shoot yourself" so over-hyped by the anti's.
Click to expand...

The first part of that sentence also reads "social scientists have suggested that perhaps" and you didn't quote the sentence before that one which says maybe 100,000 is a more accurate number. So we got a range in the article of 2 million DGUs a year to just 100,00 a year, which to me is too big a gap to be statistically relevant. Unfortunately crime statistics being what they are , and the various states using different metrics and definitions it seems that the only decent statistical information we can get about how guns are used against other people is when someone dies in the encounter.
 
AJiveMan said:
In your rural community, depending on where you reside, a firearm might be a necessity....e.g. black bear, coyote, mountain lion, rattlesnake, etc..

Click to expand...




Correct. I live out in the sticks, and I've needed a firearm to deal with an animal-related issue far more often than a people-related issue, at home at least.


Prime example:
When my son was 9 he was attacked by a rabid fox. I booted it off of him and it took off running. I didn't want it to possibly come back or possibly attack a neighbor, so I drew my CCW pistol and shot it before it got away.
 
Manc Skipper said:
My family has never, and is extremely unlikely to be in a situation where they are al being murdered. If I had a gun, I might have done it.
Click to expand...

So when they break into your house, rape your wife, and beat up on your kids with cricket bats or wrenches or such....you'll take them on alone with your....fireplace andiron?

I hear that is just the kind of common crime there...lots of assault and battery during robbery, mugging, etc. But it's ok, since the victims usually survive the beatings?
 
Wiseone said:
The first part of that sentence also reads "social scientists have suggested that perhaps" and you didn't quote the sentence before that one which says maybe 100,000 is a more accurate number. So we got a range in the article of 2 million DGUs a year to just 100,00 a year, which to me is too big a gap to be statistically relevant. Unfortunately crime statistics being what they are , and the various states using different metrics and definitions it seems that the only decent statistical information we can get about how guns are used against other people is when someone dies in the encounter.
Click to expand...


Yeah that is what people tend to say when they want to ignore DGUs. They question surveys, shrug at statistics, say "isolated incidents" at news stories, and ignore anecdotes, and claim no one knows.

Well there's plenty of evidence that it damn sure happens a lot more often than suicides, or accidents, and probably far more often than NCVS which isn't actually about DGUs.
 
Goshin said:
Correct. I live out in the sticks, and I've needed a firearm to deal with an animal-related issue far more often than a people-related issue, at home at least.


Prime example:
When my son was 9 he was attacked by a rabid fox. I booted it off of him and it took off running. I didn't want it to possibly come back or possibly attack a neighbor, so I drew my CCW pistol and shot it before it got away.
Click to expand...

I do know out west, specifically where I lived in New Mexico previous to here, coyotes are notorious for engaging pet dogs, one will come up and befriend the family dog, they'll run off into the desert, where a few others await for an easy meal. Some smaller dogs, like poodles and chihuahuas are consumed by rattlesnakes right at their front doorstep.
 
In all my time in law enforcement.... I never responded to a "priority 1" breaking or entering (when home is occupied) call that turned out to be a squirrel making a noise jumping onto the room called in by a person who had a gun.

Guns allow people to be their own first responders to simple things like loud banging noises that you suspect are someone trying to break in, etc.

People without guns tend to call the police over trivial matters before having the courage to investigate themselves. Thus making people without guns more fearful... IMO.
 
Wiseone said:
Oh I live in the United States like lots of other people, its a fairly rural place with not a lot of crime which is why I can confidently walk down the street without worried about being raped or murdered. For most people having a gun doesn't help them in life in the least, at least statistically the amount of positive uses of firearms by citizens far outweighs the negative uses. I know there's some source out there which claims a million people every year use their gun for self defense in the US, but those statistics are always open to a lot of error.

How Often Do We Use Guns in Self-Defense? - Businessweek

Point being what really guns under my skin about gun ownership isn't that a lot people own or carry guns is that they do so in a state of ignorance, they don't understand the risks to themselves that guns can create, or the risk to others if they improperly carry or improperly secure at home. I think gun advertisers are completely insane in how they advertise, which does so in a way that encourages and promotes unrealistic and unsafe ideas on how to own a weapon or what owning a weapon is like. I don't think enough people understand the responsibility that comes with owning a weapon, I don't think enough people take the time to think about how carrying a weapon could change their approach to problems or dangerous situations. Something called "weapon effect" where the fact that carrying something so powerful changes the way you think
.
Click to expand...


How often does your house burn down? How often do kids get kidnapped by strangers?

Most reasonable people practice fire drills and have plans for their family for a fire in the home. Most also teach their kids 'stranger danger' and what to do if approached by a stranger.

A firearm is an option. That's all. It's not necessarily for everyone and very very few people are recommending that those not interested go out and get them. I lived perfectly happily and safely for 40some yrs without one. I've lived several yrs since perfectly happy and safely with one. I give lie to the saying that 'Democrats/liberals only get guns after something bad happens.'

However rare, things can happen to ANYONE ANYTIME. Here's a sad story from last yr where any reasonably competent gun carrier could have saved himself and companion. Man and girlfriend were walking on a Seattle street and random mentally ill man started stabbing HER. He was unarmed but he tried to fight off the random man. He was stabbed to death. (The woman survived).

The REAL fact of this whole thing is that, like cell phones, millions of people just carry every day and dont think much of it.... it's a habit, and they never use it. (Ok the last part is different than cell phones, which most people do use. ) And there is not blood in the streets.

I have yet to read of any stories where a person carrying in public used that gun in self-defense or in defense of others and harmed anyone else. And if it's not happening....why are people so fearful? Yes, occasionally an asshole gets pissed off and shoots someone in an argument....but how much more is that happening than road rage? Or men (yup, men) doing the same thing with a different weapon? It's still pretty rare. We live in a free country...there are assholes....not much we can do about it, except be ACTIVELY personally responsible for ourselves.

And thank you for your service. Please note my sig in blue, as it's somewhat relevant to my post.
 
Goshin said:
Yeah that is what people tend to say when they want to ignore DGUs. They question surveys, shrug at statistics, say "isolated incidents" at news stories, and ignore anecdotes, and claim no one knows.

Well there's plenty of evidence that it damn sure happens a lot more often than suicides, or accidents, and probably far more often than NCVS which isn't actually about DGUs.
Click to expand...

What is a DGU?
 
Wiseone said:
I'll give another example of what I mean real quick, I made a post a while back where I said if you own a gun and look at the top round in your magazine that YOU are the person most likely of all the people in the world for that round to end up in if it were to find its way into a person. There's self-injury of course but I was referring to suicide, gun owners are about 3 times more likely to kill themselves with their gun than anyone else (legally or not). Why is that? Well suicide is already a bigger problem than homicide but more specifically it has to do with the ease of the act, suicidal people typically seek out the most painless method because even to a suicidal person the final moments are spent in extreme psychological pain, part of your brain is always rebelling against the act and its easier/less painful if you can do something which overcomes that part of the brain in just a second. So the solution is simple, if you're suicidal find somewhere else to place your guns, if your friend may be suicidal talk to him about his guns and of course about his thoughts. Thats it, that's all I'm saying, no bans, no confiscation, no mark on your record so if you go to buy another gun sometime in the future you're flagged for having been suicidal at one point and can't make the purchase.

You'd be amazed, well maybe you won't, how much people will rebel against discussing simple things like that
.
Click to expand...

I realize this is callous but I dont care about people who commit suicide. Altho I have a different view on the vets coming back from the ME since we are the ones that created their pain. For the most part tho, that is their problem and a private one. It causes a great deal of pain to others, and for most IMO is a cowardly selfish thing to do (again, not applying this to our vets).

But by no means should that EVER be used as an excuse to restrict our gun rights.
 
Lursa said:
What is a DGU?
Click to expand...



Short for "Defensive Gun Use". Means any time a citizen stops a probable crime through use of a firearm... whether by killing, wounding, shooting and missing, or just displaying the firearm and scaring off the perp. The latter is believed to probably cover as many as 98% of DGUs.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
The question's easy - there's many people out there who feel that they need a gun (or guns), usually for self-defense, but sometimes because they believe the government just might come knocking to confiscate their guns.

On the other hand, there's people out there (like myself) who simply don't want a gun, who doesn't have a need for one.

So who, really, is the one who's more afraid? The one who feels he needs a gun for self-defense, or the one who doesn't feel he needs a gun for self-defense?
Click to expand...

I think there are millions of Caspy Faintheart's out there that only feel secure if they're packing. They need a shrink to adjust their self esteem issues and instead buy a gun. I don't think the therapy works. Same thing goes for cops. Take away their guns and give them the English style billy clubs. There is mace, stun guns, pepper spray, and innocents are being shot by cops everyday. The culture has gone bad. Too militarized.
 
Lursa said:
How often does your house burn down? How often do kids get kidnapped by strangers?

Most reasonable people practice fire drills and have plans for their family for a fire in the home. Most also teach their kids 'stranger danger' and what to do if approached by a stranger.

A firearm is an option. That's all. It's not necessarily for everyone and very very few people are recommending that those not interested go out and get them. I lived perfectly happily and safely for 40some yrs without one. I've lived several yrs since perfectly happy and safely with one. I give lie to the saying that 'Democrats/liberals only get guns after something bad happens.'

However rare, things can happen to ANYONE ANYTIME. Here's a sad story from last yr where any reasonably competent gun carrier could have saved himself and companion. Man and girlfriend were walking on a Seattle street and random mentally ill man started stabbing HER. He was unarmed but he tried to fight off the random man. He was stabbed to death. (The woman survived).

The REAL fact of this whole thing is that, like cell phones, millions of people just carry every day and dont think much of it.... it's a habit, and they never use it. (Ok the last part is different than cell phones, which most people do use. ) And there is not blood in the streets.

I have yet to read of any stories where a person carrying in public used that gun in self-defense or in defense of others and harmed anyone else. And if it's not happening....why are people so fearful? Yes, occasionally an asshole gets pissed off and shoots someone in an argument....but how much more is that happening than road rage? Or men (yup, men) doing the same thing with a different weapon? It's still pretty rare. We live in a free country...there are assholes....not much we can do about it, except be ACTIVELY personally responsible for ourselves.

And thank you for your service. Please note my sig in blue, as it's somewhat relevant to my post.
Click to expand...




:applaud :applaud :applaud


Very well said!
 
DaveFagan said:
I think there are millions of Caspy Faintheart's out there that only feel secure if they're packing.
Click to expand...


Certain people keep saying that, and I keep scratching my head and wondering when, after meeting hundreds of CCWers over the course of some years attending and teaching shooting courses, I'm going to meet any of these presumed-commonplace fainthearted Walter Mitty's.
 
Lursa said:
I realize this is callous but I dont care about people who commit suicide. Altho I have a different view on the vets coming back from the ME since we are the ones that created their pain. For the most part tho, that is their problem and a private one. It causes a great deal of pain to others, and for most IMO is a cowardly selfish thing to do (again, not applying this to our vets).

But by no means should that EVER be used as an excuse to restrict our gun rights.
Click to expand...

I never said anything about restricting gun rights, I just said to be mindful and aware, but I'm used to people routinely ignoring what I say and just talking to their straw man.

Also its not just callous its also extremely ignorant.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
The question's easy - there's many people out there who feel that they need a gun (or guns), usually for self-defense, but sometimes because they believe the government just might come knocking to confiscate their guns.

On the other hand, there's people out there (like myself) who simply don't want a gun, who doesn't have a need for one.

So who, really, is the one who's more afraid? The one who feels he needs a gun for self-defense, or the one who doesn't feel he needs a gun for self-defense?
Click to expand...

I can't vote in your poll. Neither has to be afraid to exercise either choice.
 
Goshin said:
Certain people keep saying that, and I keep scratching my head and wondering when, after meeting hundreds of CCWers over the course of some years attending and teaching shooting courses, I'm going to meet any of these presumed-commonplace fainthearted Walter Mitty's.
Click to expand...

Concealed Carry and the Triumph of Fear

"In both classes, and in every book about concealed carry that I read, much was made of "conditions of readiness," which are color-coded from white to red. Condition White is total oblivion to one's surroundings—sleeping, being drunk or stoned, losing oneself in conversation while walking on city streets, texting while listening to an iPod. Condition Yellow is being aware of, and taking an interest in, one's surroundings—essentially, the mental state we are encouraged to achieve when we are driving: keeping our eyes moving, checking the mirrors, being careful not to let the radio drown out the sounds around us. Condition Orange is being aware of a possible threat. Condition Red is responding to danger.

Contempt for Condition White unifies the gun-carrying community almost as much as does fealty to the Second Amendment. "When you’re in Condition White you're a sheep," one of my Boulder instructors told us. "You're a victim." The American Tactical Shooting Association says the only time to be in Condition White is "when in your own home, with the doors locked, the alarm system on, and your dog at your feet. . . . The instant you leave your home, you escalate one level, to Condition Yellow." A citizen in Condition White is as useless as an unarmed citizen, not only a political cipher but a moral dud. "I feel I have a responsibility, and I believe that in my afterlife I will be judged," one of the Boulder gun instructors said. "Part of the judgment will be: Did this guy look after himself? It’s a minimum responsibility."

Just as the Red Cross would like everybody to be qualified in CPR, gun carriers want everybody prepared to confront violence—not only by being armed but by maintaining Condition Yellow. Hang around with people committed to carrying guns and it’s easy to feel guilty about lapsing into Condition White, to begin seeing yourself as deadweight on society, a parasite, a mediocre citizen. "You should constantly practice being in Condition Yellow all the time," writes Tony Walker in his book How to Win a Gunfight....

I'm more alert and acute when I'm wearing my gun. If I'm in a restaurant or store, I find myself in my own little movie, glancing at the door when a person walks in and, in a microsecond, evaluating whether a threat has appeared and what my options for response would be—roll left and take cover behind that pillar? On the street, I look people over: Where are his hands? What does his face tell me? I run sequences in my head. If a guy jumps me with a knife, should I throw money to the ground and run? Take two steps back and draw? How about if he has a gun? How will I distract him so I can get the drop? It can be fun. But it can also be exhausting. Some nights I dream gunfight scenarios over and over and wake up bushed. In Flagstaff I was planning to meet a friend for a beer, and although carrying in a bar is legal in Arizona, drinking in a bar while armed is not. I locked my gun in the car. Walking the few blocks to the bar, I realized how different I felt: lighter, dreamier, conscious of how the afternoon light slanted against Flagstaff's old buildings. I found myself, as I walked, composing lines of prose. I was lapsing into Condition White, and loving it.

Condition White may make us sheep, but it's also where art happens. It's where we daydream, reminisce, and hear music in our heads. Hard-core gun carriers want no part of that, and the zeal for getting everybody to carry a gun may be as much an anti–Condition White movement as anything else—resentment toward the airy-fairy elites who can enjoy the luxury of musing, sipping tea, and nibbling biscuits while the good people of the world have to work for a living and keep their guard up. Gun guys never stop building and strengthening this like-minded community. When I mention that I'm carrying, their faces light up. "Good for you!" "Right on!" "God bless you!" The owner of a gun factory in Mesa, Arizona, spotted the gun under my jacket and said, with great solemnity, "You honor me by wearing your gun to my place of business."

This week, Florida will issue its one millionth concealed-carry permit. To repeat, concealed carriers are a minority of gun owners. But their preferences, and the fantasy world in which they live, have more and more determined the collective choices we as a society make about guns."
 
Goshin said:
Certain people keep saying that, and I keep scratching my head and wondering when, after meeting hundreds of CCWers over the course of some years attending and teaching shooting courses, I'm going to meet any of these presumed-commonplace fainthearted Walter Mitty's.
Click to expand...

Concealed Carry and the Triumph of Fear

"In both classes, and in every book about concealed carry that I read, much was made of "conditions of readiness," which are color-coded from white to red. Condition White is total oblivion to one's surroundings—sleeping, being drunk or stoned, losing oneself in conversation while walking on city streets, texting while listening to an iPod. Condition Yellow is being aware of, and taking an interest in, one's surroundings—essentially, the mental state we are encouraged to achieve when we are driving: keeping our eyes moving, checking the mirrors, being careful not to let the radio drown out the sounds around us. Condition Orange is being aware of a possible threat. Condition Red is responding to danger.

Contempt for Condition White unifies the gun-carrying community almost as much as does fealty to the Second Amendment. "When you’re in Condition White you're a sheep," one of my Boulder instructors told us. "You're a victim." The American Tactical Shooting Association says the only time to be in Condition White is "when in your own home, with the doors locked, the alarm system on, and your dog at your feet. . . . The instant you leave your home, you escalate one level, to Condition Yellow." A citizen in Condition White is as useless as an unarmed citizen, not only a political cipher but a moral dud. "I feel I have a responsibility, and I believe that in my afterlife I will be judged," one of the Boulder gun instructors said. "Part of the judgment will be: Did this guy look after himself? It’s a minimum responsibility."

Just as the Red Cross would like everybody to be qualified in CPR, gun carriers want everybody prepared to confront violence—not only by being armed but by maintaining Condition Yellow. Hang around with people committed to carrying guns and it’s easy to feel guilty about lapsing into Condition White, to begin seeing yourself as deadweight on society, a parasite, a mediocre citizen. "You should constantly practice being in Condition Yellow all the time," writes Tony Walker in his book How to Win a Gunfight....

I'm more alert and acute when I'm wearing my gun. If I'm in a restaurant or store, I find myself in my own little movie, glancing at the door when a person walks in and, in a microsecond, evaluating whether a threat has appeared and what my options for response would be—roll left and take cover behind that pillar? On the street, I look people over: Where are his hands? What does his face tell me? I run sequences in my head. If a guy jumps me with a knife, should I throw money to the ground and run? Take two steps back and draw? How about if he has a gun? How will I distract him so I can get the drop? It can be fun. But it can also be exhausting. Some nights I dream gunfight scenarios over and over and wake up bushed. In Flagstaff I was planning to meet a friend for a beer, and although carrying in a bar is legal in Arizona, drinking in a bar while armed is not. I locked my gun in the car. Walking the few blocks to the bar, I realized how different I felt: lighter, dreamier, conscious of how the afternoon light slanted against Flagstaff's old buildings. I found myself, as I walked, composing lines of prose. I was lapsing into Condition White, and loving it.

Condition White may make us sheep, but it's also where art happens. It's where we daydream, reminisce, and hear music in our heads. Hard-core gun carriers want no part of that, and the zeal for getting everybody to carry a gun may be as much an anti–Condition White movement as anything else—resentment toward the airy-fairy elites who can enjoy the luxury of musing, sipping tea, and nibbling biscuits while the good people of the world have to work for a living and keep their guard up. Gun guys never stop building and strengthening this like-minded community. When I mention that I'm carrying, their faces light up. "Good for you!" "Right on!" "God bless you!" The owner of a gun factory in Mesa, Arizona, spotted the gun under my jacket and said, with great solemnity, "You honor me by wearing your gun to my place of business."

This week, Florida will issue its one millionth concealed-carry permit. To repeat, concealed carriers are a minority of gun owners. But their preferences, and the fantasy world in which they live, have more and more determined the collective choices we as a society make about guns."
 
Glen Contrarian said:
The question's easy - there's many people out there who feel that they need a gun (or guns), usually for self-defense, but sometimes because they believe the government just might come knocking to confiscate their guns.

On the other hand, there's people out there (like myself) who simply don't want a gun, who doesn't have a need for one.

So who, really, is the one who's more afraid? The one who feels he needs a gun for self-defense, or the one who doesn't feel he needs a gun for self-defense?
Click to expand...

You ask an excellent question. Over and over and over again in gun thread after gun thread after gun thread the toadies and sycophants of the gun lobby who want a guncentric America keep insulting people who disagree with them peering down the edge of their nose, wagging their judgemntal finger and dripping with faux superior condescension proclaim that people who want reasonable gun regulation are AFRAID. The mock and laugh and say such folks are motivated by fear and emotion.

There is an old saying that when you point an accusatory finger at others you have three more of your own pointing right back at you. The gun community is so motivated and so obsessed with fear that it is the life blood of their ideology. They are afraid of crime. They are afraid of The Other. They have delusional fantasies of fear that the mean old US government is going to ship them off to the camps in Malibu.

FEAR FEAR FEAR.

It makes up their very fiber of being and chokes all off reason and common sense with them.
 
DaveFagan said:
Concealed Carry and the Triumph of Fear

"In both classes, and in every book about concealed carry that I read, much was made of "conditions of readiness," which are color-coded from white to red. Condition White is total oblivion to one's surroundings—sleeping, being drunk or stoned, losing oneself in conversation while walking on city streets, texting while listening to an iPod. Condition Yellow is being aware of, and taking an interest in, one's surroundings—essentially, the mental state we are encouraged to achieve when we are driving: keeping our eyes moving, checking the mirrors, being careful not to let the radio drown out the sounds around us. Condition Orange is being aware of a possible threat. Condition Red is responding to danger.

Contempt for Condition White unifies the gun-carrying community almost as much as does fealty to the Second Amendment. "When you’re in Condition White you're a sheep," one of my Boulder instructors told us. "You're a victim." The American Tactical Shooting Association says the only time to be in Condition White is "when in your own home, with the doors locked, the alarm system on, and your dog at your feet. . . . The instant you leave your home, you escalate one level, to Condition Yellow." A citizen in Condition White is as useless as an unarmed citizen, not only a political cipher but a moral dud. "I feel I have a responsibility, and I believe that in my afterlife I will be judged," one of the Boulder gun instructors said. "Part of the judgment will be: Did this guy look after himself? It’s a minimum responsibility."

Just as the Red Cross would like everybody to be qualified in CPR, gun carriers want everybody prepared to confront violence—not only by being armed but by maintaining Condition Yellow. Hang around with people committed to carrying guns and it’s easy to feel guilty about lapsing into Condition White, to begin seeing yourself as deadweight on society, a parasite, a mediocre citizen. "You should constantly practice being in Condition Yellow all the time," writes Tony Walker in his book How to Win a Gunfight....

I'm more alert and acute when I'm wearing my gun. If I'm in a restaurant or store, I find myself in my own little movie, glancing at the door when a person walks in and, in a microsecond, evaluating whether a threat has appeared and what my options for response would be—roll left and take cover behind that pillar? On the street, I look people over: Where are his hands? What does his face tell me? I run sequences in my head. If a guy jumps me with a knife, should I throw money to the ground and run? Take two steps back and draw? How about if he has a gun? How will I distract him so I can get the drop? It can be fun. But it can also be exhausting. Some nights I dream gunfight scenarios over and over and wake up bushed. In Flagstaff I was planning to meet a friend for a beer, and although carrying in a bar is legal in Arizona, drinking in a bar while armed is not. I locked my gun in the car. Walking the few blocks to the bar, I realized how different I felt: lighter, dreamier, conscious of how the afternoon light slanted against Flagstaff's old buildings. I found myself, as I walked, composing lines of prose. I was lapsing into Condition White, and loving it.

Condition White may make us sheep, but it's also where art happens. It's where we daydream, reminisce, and hear music in our heads. Hard-core gun carriers want no part of that, and the zeal for getting everybody to carry a gun may be as much an anti–Condition White movement as anything else—resentment toward the airy-fairy elites who can enjoy the luxury of musing, sipping tea, and nibbling biscuits while the good people of the world have to work for a living and keep their guard up. Gun guys never stop building and strengthening this like-minded community. When I mention that I'm carrying, their faces light up. "Good for you!" "Right on!" "God bless you!" The owner of a gun factory in Mesa, Arizona, spotted the gun under my jacket and said, with great solemnity, "You honor me by wearing your gun to my place of business."

This week, Florida will issue its one millionth concealed-carry permit. To repeat, concealed carriers are a minority of gun owners. But their preferences, and the fantasy world in which they live, have more and more determined the collective choices we as a society make about guns."
Click to expand...


Your source is a highly biased opinion piece. Here are some more gems from same:

we need to remember that the most important change in recent years isn't in the equipment, but in the spread of a new kind of mentality among many gun owners, one that seeks to make fear the organizing principle of American society.This has been the essential focus of gun advocates' work in recent years: changing laws so that as many people as possible can carry as many guns as possible into as many places as possible. Since the people who want to do so have driven the discussion and the laws on guns, it's important to understand where they're coming from. And frankly, it's an ugly place.

Most gun owners don't have concealed carry permits, and there is a profound psychological difference between someone who has a gun in his home and someone who decides to carry a gun wherever he goes. Even apart from the threat the carrier poses to the rest of us, he has decided to transform his view of the world into one in which every person he encounters is a potential assailant, every space he walks into a potential scene of carnage, every moment the moment before violence and death erupt.
Click to expand...
 
haymarket said:
You ask an excellent question. Over and over and over again in gun thread after gun thread after gun thread the toadies and sycophants of the gun lobby who want a guncentric America keep insulting people who disagree with them peering down the edge of their nose, wagging their judgemntal finger and dripping with faux superior condescension proclaim that people who want reasonable gun regulation are AFRAID. The mock and laugh and say such folks are motivated by fear and emotion.

There is an old saying that when you point an accusatory finger at others you have three more of your own pointing right back at you. The gun community is so motivated and so obsessed with fear that it is the life blood of their ideology. They are afraid of crime. They are afraid of The Other. They have delusional fantasies of fear that the mean old US government is going to ship them off to the camps in Malibu.

FEAR FEAR FEAR.

It makes up their very fiber of being and chokes all off reason and common sense with them.
Click to expand...



:lamo :lamo What horse ****. No facts, just emotional bias and opinion.
 
Goshin said:
:lamo :lamo What horse ****. No facts, just emotional bias and opinion.
Click to expand...

Are you actually going to deny that what I said is not true? Gun sales are NOT motivated by fear of crime? :shock::doh C'mon Goshin - you have far too much smarts to even go down that road.

And the paranoid fear of government drips from so many gun threads its like a constant theme. :roll:

FEAR motivates the gun community bigtime.
 
haymarket said:
Are you actually going to deny that what I said is not true? Gun sales are NOT motivated by fear of crime? :shock::doh C'mon Goshin - you have far too much smarts to even go down that road.

And the paranoid fear of government drips from so many gun threads its like a constant theme. :roll:

FEAR motivates the gun community bigtime.
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If you listen to a few (admittedly loud) voices of fear and paranoia I suppose it might seem that way.

This "FEAR!!!1!" meme just alternately baffles or amuses me though. As I've said, I live in a shooting and hunting culture; I teach defensive shooting skills; and a LOT of the people I hang out with are CCWers, ex-cops, former military, etc.


And I just don't see this "FEAR!!!1!" meme playing out in real life among most gun owners or even gun carriers.

We get up and go to work like everyone else. Some of us get to carry while on the job; some can't due to company rules or etc. We may grumble about it but we go to work anyway and we don't spend the day quivering in fear and feeling inadequate because we're not properly armed.

We're AWARE that anything can happen at any time, and we're ALERT, but we don't go around jumping at shadows every five seconds or attaching a lot of emotional content to our alertness. We don't feel fear every time some stranger approaches. We just live life and have that awareness running in the back of our minds, like a computer running an application in the background rather than on-screen.

We go to each other's houses and barbecue and sit around on the back porch talking like normal people, and we don't jump up and go Rambo every time a squirrel farts in the next tree. :mrgreen:


Sometimes I feel like some of you view us as some sort of alien species or foreign invader and assign us sinister motives, or project your own fears onto us, or something of the sort. We're not; we're mostly just ordinary folks, and if you lived next door you might know us for years without ever knowing we carry, or ever suspecting we were one of the Sinister Gun People. (gasp!)


Yes, we are jealously protective of our rights. We've seen how one incremental step leads to the next, so we're tired of compromising when all that gets us is another step towards laws that may make it harder for us to protect our families IF we need to.

Yes, we're a little different in some ways. But most of the time, you could live next door to one of us (and probably do) and never know it or never think of us as some "weirdo nut"... unless we choose to talk about guns with you at some point.


We're just people like any other people, mostly. We just have a different perspective on certain things. And believe it or not, most of us do NOT have lives that actually revolve around guns... the guns are just THERE, and to us as natural a part of life as a car or a cell phone.
 
Slyfox696 said:
I
Please direct me to the place where it says the Bill of Rights are god given. I want the exact quote. In fact, show me any place in the actual Constitution which mentions God.

I'll wait.
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Its in the Declaration of Independence.
 
Manc Skipper said:
When you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
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It's "when all you have is a hammer...".

I like that saying because I've built and remodeled houses. Sometimes, it actually is a nail, and a screwdriver just won't do.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Its in the Declaration of Independence.
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Which means nothing since it was only a birth announcement of the nation and once it served its purpose was pretty much forgotten for years until it was resurrected for partisan political purposes.
 
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