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Who Is More Afraid? The One Who Feels He Needs a Gun? Or the One Who Doesn't?

Who is more afraid? The one who feels he needs a gun, or the one who doesn't?


  • Total voters
    36
I'm reminded of the story...

A cop pulls over a little old lady for having a busted taillight. He asks her as part of the stop whether she has any firearms in the car.

"Well," the grey-haired grandmother says,"... I do yes. There's my .38 Smith Airweight in my purse, and my Colt Custom Combat Long-slide .45 in my glovebox. Oh, yes, and in the trunk I have my Remington 870 pump shotgun, and my AR-15 along with a few loaded 30 round magazines."

The cop was taken aback by the old lady's arsenal, and said "Ma'am, I have to ask you... what is it you are so afraid of??"

The little old lady's eyes lit up and she smiled broadly as she said: "Not one damn thing, Officer." :mrgreen:
 
A lot of people don't carry because of fear, they carry because they think its manly
 
A lot of people don't carry because of fear, they carry because they think its manly


Oddly enough I've yet to meet such a person, despite having met hundreds of CCWers. Most of them I've met carry because they think it is a good precaution against violent crime.


The "concealed" part kind of takes a lot of the braggadocio out of it, really... since if you're doing it right nobody knows... and if you're smart you don't go around telling people either.
 
Oddly enough I've yet to meet such a person, despite having met hundreds of CCWers. Most of them I've met carry because they think it is a good precaution against violent crime.


The "concealed" part kind of takes a lot of the braggadocio out of it, really... since if you're doing it right nobody knows... and if you're smart you don't go around telling people either.

What I meant was that its part of a fantasy that they live in a dangerous enough word to justify being armed all the time, which isn't the case for most people, but danger is manly and cool
 
The question's easy - there's many people out there who feel that they need a gun (or guns), usually for self-defense, but sometimes because they believe the government just might come knocking to confiscate their guns.

On the other hand, there's people out there (like myself) who simply don't want a gun, who doesn't have a need for one.

So who, really, is the one who's more afraid? The one who feels he needs a gun for self-defense, or the one who doesn't feel he needs a gun for self-defense?

Not a very thoughtful question, I'm sorry to say. The decision to carry a weapon is a situational consideration. For most of my life I have not carried a weapon. On some occasions I chose to be armed, a couple of times very heavily. During a couple of tours of duty I had a 12 gauge shotgun within reach at my bed each night. Etc., etc. A firearm is a tool. If it suits the work at hand then you should have one.:peace
 
It's a reasonably potent caliber (especially loaded with +P hydroshok or glazer slugs) with low recoil... and semi-auto pistols have lighter trigger pull than revolvers. I'd suggest a DAO (double action only) pistol so you don't have to fool around with a manual safety lever or cocking it or anything. Best wishes and PM me if you have any questions I can help you with (I am a shooting instructor and ex-cop). :)

Thank you very much. :)
 
It's a reasonably potent caliber (especially loaded with +P hydroshok or glazer slugs) with low recoil... and semi-auto pistols have lighter trigger pull than revolvers. I'd suggest a DAO (double action only) pistol so you don't have to fool around with a manual safety lever or cocking it or anything. Best wishes and PM me if you have any questions I can help you with (I am a shooting instructor and ex-cop). :)

one problem-light guns with long trigger pulls are not conducive to accuracy. My wife has several Sig 238s put they are single action (cocked and locked( and are pretty easy to shoot. GIve her my SW bodyguard with a 12 pound DAO on trigger-the accuracy deteriorates
 
What I meant was that its part of a fantasy that they live in a dangerous enough word to justify being armed all the time, which isn't the case for most people, but danger is manly and cool



I think each individual, who is responsible enough to go out and get a CCW permit, gets to make that decision (about whether they need to carry, for whatever reason), for themselves.

It's called liberty and self-determination. Some people are quite fond of it.
 
one problem-light guns with long trigger pulls are not conducive to accuracy. My wife has several Sig 238s put they are single action (cocked and locked( and are pretty easy to shoot. GIve her my SW bodyguard with a 12 pound DAO on trigger-the accuracy deteriorates


The pistol I gave my mother was a small semiauto, DAO with no manual safety or hammer. The trigger pull on it was very light compared to any revolver. She had no problem shooting a full magazine of K-zone hits at 7 yards, despite being 75yo at the time and having arthritis. :shrug:

She was used to revolvers and would not have been comfortable with cocked-and-locked, so I gave her something similar to what she was familiar with.
 
What I meant was that its part of a fantasy that they live in a dangerous enough word to justify being armed all the time, which isn't the case for most people, but danger is manly and cool

There is a saying among cc'ers, "If I thought I needed a gun, I wouldnt go there.'

The firearm or any other self-defense preparation is for everything you cant anticipate or expect.

It's the same reason I carry a cell phone...every day, without even thinking about it, but at first I had to actively remind and make myself bring it. It's mostly for emergencies...not that I ever knew if I'd need it but darn, if I didnt!

Now I also use it for connecting with people when we have plans and Web info but I hate talking on it so it's not for 'socializing,' it's a tool to be used as needed.
 
Those who do choose to own guns are typically (from my experience which is EXTENSIVE) motivated by the following... roughly in this order of commonality...

1. They grew up in a gun-owning household (and/or culture) and consider it a norm, and consider guns to be useful for various purposes.
2. They are hunters or engaged in shooting sports.
3. They are aware that their area is not safe, or that "safe areas" are largely an illusion, and wish to be armed to protect themselves against armed criminals.
4. They're paranoid and fearful.

Notice only the fourth and last (and least common) motivator is fearful or irrational. Frankly I have known several hundred gun owners and shooting enthusiasts and hardly any of them qualified as primarily motivated by fear.


Just trying to bring this thread back into the realm of reality...


None of the above for me! My entry into the gun carrying/owning world was none of those and my competitive shooting came quite a bit after. (Ok, perhaps a mild version of #3...it just seemed like the smart thing to do, no real threat or fear at all.)
 
None of the above for me! My entry into the gun carrying/owning world was none of those and my competitive shooting came quite a bit after.


:shrug: It wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list. So what was it then? Curiosity...
 
Why? There are more regulations on driving and the mfr, registration, use, safety, and licensing of a vehicle then anything else we own. While it will not prevent people from being bad drivers, it has reduced vehicle accidents and the severity of injuries caused by vehicle accidents.

There are almost no regulations on guns. Hell, a small child could buy a gun.... But it would be almost impossible for them to buy a car.

It may have reduced them but they are still terribly high so who is to say they are 'effective?' Certain types, related to personal responsibilty, are on the rise, specifically cell phone use and texting. Road rage is also a growing hazard and not seemingly affected by 'regulations.'

And no, a small child cannot legally OWN a gun so that's BS.

What regulations on guns do you think would contribute to **public safety?**
 
It wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list. So what was it then? Curiosity...

It just seemed like a good idea, like additional home security, when I moved out to my rural property.

I took a ladies gun class and liked it. If I hadnt liked it, I wouldnt have bothered, but I liked shooting.

The class opened the door to cc'ing and again, it just seemed like a good idea. I used to live in metro NJ, was an unarmed park ranger in Central Park in Manhattan. Never really felt the need for a gun or fearful. I patrolled CP on foot, unarmed.

But once introduced to guns and enjoying shooting, it seemed like a non-starter...why not? Just one more option. I was always aware of the dangers out there.....so one more tool was welcomed.

btw, now that I am in the competitive arena, so to speak, I talk to loads of people, esp. women, about *carrying* and again, your list really is not as comprehensive as you think.

In general I believe most cc'ers are private about it...but being involved in the sport does open up conversation.
 
The question's easy - there's many people out there who feel that they need a gun (or guns), usually for self-defense, but sometimes because they believe the government just might come knocking to confiscate their guns.

On the other hand, there's people out there (like myself) who simply don't want a gun, who doesn't have a need for one.

So who, really, is the one who's more afraid? The one who feels he needs a gun for self-defense, or the one who doesn't feel he needs a gun for self-defense?

Owning a gun isn't about controlling fear it's about being able to protect yourself and your family should the situation arise.

I hope you never need a gun, but if you ever do need it and don't have it you'll sure as hell regret your decision not to be prepared.
 
What I meant was that its part of a fantasy that they live in a dangerous enough word to justify being armed all the time, which isn't the case for most people, but danger is manly and cool
Ok what planet do you live that violent crime isn't really an issue? Tens for thousands of people are raped and or murdered every year in the US and without being able to protect yourself the only thing stopping that happening to you and your family is someone not trying.

If your family was in the process of being murdered would you want a gun? I'm assuming you wouldn't want it because the only real use for a gun is feeling manly.
 
The question's easy - there's many people out there who feel that they need a gun (or guns), usually for self-defense, but sometimes because they believe the government just might come knocking to confiscate their guns.

On the other hand, there's people out there (like myself) who simply don't want a gun, who doesn't have a need for one.

So who, really, is the one who's more afraid? The one who feels he needs a gun for self-defense, or the one who doesn't feel he needs a gun for self-defense?
I don't know, I can only speak for myself. I've been in situations where I was glad to have gun. If you haven't, you're blessed.
 
Ok what planet do you live that violent crime isn't really an issue? Tens for thousands of people are raped and or murdered every year in the US and without being able to protect yourself the only thing stopping that happening to you and your family is someone not trying.

If your family was in the process of being murdered would you want a gun? I'm assuming you wouldn't want it because the only real use for a gun is feeling manly.

My family has never, and is extremely unlikely to be in a situation where they are al being murdered. If I had a gun, I might have done it.
 
I don't know, I can only speak for myself. I've been in situations where I was glad to have gun. If you haven't, you're blessed.

When you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
 
Ok what planet do you live that violent crime isn't really an issue? Tens for thousands of people are raped and or murdered every year in the US and without being able to protect yourself the only thing stopping that happening to you and your family is someone not trying.

If your family was in the process of being murdered would you want a gun? I'm assuming you wouldn't want it because the only real use for a gun is feeling manly.

Oh I live in the United States like lots of other people, its a fairly rural place with not a lot of crime which is why I can confidently walk down the street without worried about being raped or murdered. For most people having a gun doesn't help them in life in the least, at least statistically the amount of positive uses of firearms by citizens far outweighs the negative uses. I know there's some source out there which claims a million people every year use their gun for self defense in the US, but those statistics are always open to a lot of error.

How Often Do We Use Guns in Self-Defense? - Businessweek

Point being what really guns under my skin about gun ownership isn't that a lot people own or carry guns is that they do so in a state of ignorance, they don't understand the risks to themselves that guns can create, or the risk to others if they improperly carry or improperly secure at home. I think gun advertisers are completely insane in how they advertise, which does so in a way that encourages and promotes unrealistic and unsafe ideas on how to own a weapon or what owning a weapon is like. I don't think enough people understand the responsibility that comes with owning a weapon, I don't think enough people take the time to think about how carrying a weapon could change their approach to problems or dangerous situations. Something called "weapon effect" where the fact that carrying something so powerful changes the way you think

Weapons effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its not something I say happens to everyone but its something I've personally experienced with some people. None of this is me saying "this applies to everyone all the time," ultimately it comes down to that I don't feel people taking gun ownership seriously enough and my solution to that isn't bans or confiscation, which are political or practically feasible, but rather that people should be educated and seek education into how to be a responsible gun owner.

I'll give another example of what I mean real quick, I made a post a while back where I said if you own a gun and look at the top round in your magazine that YOU are the person most likely of all the people in the world for that round to end up in if it were to find its way into a person. There's self-injury of course but I was referring to suicide, gun owners are about 3 times more likely to kill themselves with their gun than anyone else (legally or not). Why is that? Well suicide is already a bigger problem than homicide but more specifically it has to do with the ease of the act, suicidal people typically seek out the most painless method because even to a suicidal person the final moments are spent in extreme psychological pain, part of your brain is always rebelling against the act and its easier/less painful if you can do something which overcomes that part of the brain in just a second. So the solution is simple, if you're suicidal find somewhere else to place your guns, if your friend may be suicidal talk to him about his guns and of course about his thoughts. Thats it, that's all I'm saying, no bans, no confiscation, no mark on your record so if you go to buy another gun sometime in the future you're flagged for having been suicidal at one point and can't make the purchase.

You'd be amazed, well maybe you won't, how much people will rebel against discussing simple things like that

Maybe this comes from my time in Afghanistan, where the biggest enemy was yourself. There were more deaths/injuries to suicide and accident than ever by combat, and in just about every single one them you could look at see that negligence towards appreciating risk was the cause. Ya you might get really unlikely and johnny-taliban might get you, but odds are you or your friend is going to do you in.
 
My family has never, and is extremely unlikely to be in a situation where they are al being murdered. If I had a gun, I might have done it.

Sure it's unlikely, and hopefully it never does happen. However, were it ever to happen, you sure as **** would want to have a gun around, which makes anti-gun folk little more than hypocrites. You've never needed one so why would anyone else?

Oh I live in the United States like lots of other people, its a fairly rural place with not a lot of crime which is why I can confidently walk down the street without worried about being raped or murdered. For most people having a gun doesn't help them in life in the least, at least statistically the amount of positive uses of firearms by citizens far outweighs the negative uses. I know there's some source out there which claims a million people every year use their gun for self defense in the US, but those statistics are always open to a lot of error.

How Often Do We Use Guns in Self-Defense? - Businessweek

Point being what really guns under my skin about gun ownership isn't that a lot people own or carry guns is that they do so in a state of ignorance, they don't understand the risks to themselves that guns can create, or the risk to others if they improperly carry or improperly secure at home. I think gun advertisers are completely insane in how they advertise, which does so in a way that encourages and promotes unrealistic and unsafe ideas on how to own a weapon or what owning a weapon is like. I don't think enough people understand the responsibility that comes with owning a weapon, I don't think enough people take the time to think about how carrying a weapon could change their approach to problems or dangerous situations. Something called "weapon effect" where the fact that carrying something so powerful changes the way you think

Weapons effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its not something I say happens to everyone but its something I've personally experienced with some people. None of this is me saying "this applies to everyone all the time," ultimately it comes down to that I don't feel people taking gun ownership seriously enough and my solution to that isn't bans or confiscation, which are political or practically feasible, but rather that people should be educated and seek education into how to be a responsible gun owner.

I'll give another example of what I mean real quick, I made a post a while back where I said if you own a gun and look at the top round in your magazine that YOU are the person most likely of all the people in the world for that round to end up in if it were to find its way into a person. There's self-injury of course but I was referring to suicide, gun owners are about 3 times more likely to kill themselves with their gun than anyone else (legally or not). Why is that? Well suicide is already a bigger problem than homicide but more specifically it has to do with the ease of the act, suicidal people typically seek out the most painless method because even to a suicidal person the final moments are spent in extreme psychological pain, part of your brain is always rebelling against the act and its easier/less painful if you can do something which overcomes that part of the brain in just a second. So the solution is simple, if you're suicidal find somewhere else to place your guns, if your friend may be suicidal talk to him about his guns and of course about his thoughts. Thats it, that's all I'm saying, no bans, no confiscation, no mark on your record so if you go to buy another gun sometime in the future you're flagged for having been suicidal at one point and can't make the purchase.

You'd be amazed, well maybe you won't, how much people will rebel against discussing simple things like that

Maybe this comes from my time in Afghanistan, where the biggest enemy was yourself. There were more deaths/injuries to suicide and accident than ever by combat, and in just about every single one them you could look at see that negligence towards appreciating risk was the cause. Ya you might get really unlikely and johnny-taliban might get you, but odds are you or your friend is going to do you in.

I guess you were lucky then. When I was in Afghanistan we had far more casualties from enemy fire than we had from self infliction. My experience there taught me the exact opposite, it taught me that the world is a ****ed up, violent, horrible place, and no one is going to protect you, only yourself and the people you trust. A gun enables that. Will every gun owner win a gun fight? Of course not, but never in history have the chances for a 100 lb female been so great to win against a 200 lb male. Guns level the battlefield, and frankly that's what a lot of people don't want to see.
 
It just seemed like a good idea, like additional home security, when I moved out to my rural property.

I took a ladies gun class and liked it. If I hadnt liked it, I wouldnt have bothered, but I liked shooting.

The class opened the door to cc'ing and again, it just seemed like a good idea. I used to live in metro NJ, was an unarmed park ranger in Central Park in Manhattan. Never really felt the need for a gun or fearful. I patrolled CP on foot, unarmed.

But once introduced to guns and enjoying shooting, it seemed like a non-starter...why not? Just one more option. I was always aware of the dangers out there.....so one more tool was welcomed.

btw, now that I am in the competitive arena, so to speak, I talk to loads of people, esp. women, about *carrying* and again, your list really is not as comprehensive as you think.

In general I believe most cc'ers are private about it...but being involved in the sport does open up conversation.



As I said, it wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list of specifics, but to cover the broad basic motives in a concise package. "It just seemed like a good idea, like additional home security, when I moved out to my rural property" as you said, may not fit precisely under number "3. They are aware that their area is not safe, or that "safe areas" are largely an illusion, and wish to be armed to protect themselves against armed criminals."... but close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades. :D
 
Oh I live in the United States like lots of other people, its a fairly rural place with not a lot of crime which is why I can confidently walk down the street without worried about being raped or murdered. For most people having a gun doesn't help them in life in the least, at least statistically the amount of positive uses of firearms by citizens far outweighs the negative uses. I know there's some source out there which claims a million people every year use their gun for self defense in the US, but those statistics are always open to a lot of error.

How Often Do We Use Guns in Self-Defense? - Businessweek

Point being what really guns under my skin about gun ownership isn't that a lot people own or carry guns is that they do so in a state of ignorance, they don't understand the risks to themselves that guns can create, or the risk to others if they improperly carry or improperly secure at home. I think gun advertisers are completely insane in how they advertise, which does so in a way that encourages and promotes unrealistic and unsafe ideas on how to own a weapon or what owning a weapon is like. I don't think enough people understand the responsibility that comes with owning a weapon, I don't think enough people take the time to think about how carrying a weapon could change their approach to problems or dangerous situations. Something called "weapon effect" where the fact that carrying something so powerful changes the way you think

Weapons effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its not something I say happens to everyone but its something I've personally experienced with some people. None of this is me saying "this applies to everyone all the time," ultimately it comes down to that I don't feel people taking gun ownership seriously enough and my solution to that isn't bans or confiscation, which are political or practically feasible, but rather that people should be educated and seek education into how to be a responsible gun owner.

I'll give another example of what I mean real quick, I made a post a while back where I said if you own a gun and look at the top round in your magazine that YOU are the person most likely of all the people in the world for that round to end up in if it were to find its way into a person. There's self-injury of course but I was referring to suicide, gun owners are about 3 times more likely to kill themselves with their gun than anyone else (legally or not). Why is that? Well suicide is already a bigger problem than homicide but more specifically it has to do with the ease of the act, suicidal people typically seek out the most painless method because even to a suicidal person the final moments are spent in extreme psychological pain, part of your brain is always rebelling against the act and its easier/less painful if you can do something which overcomes that part of the brain in just a second. So the solution is simple, if you're suicidal find somewhere else to place your guns, if your friend may be suicidal talk to him about his guns and of course about his thoughts. Thats it, that's all I'm saying, no bans, no confiscation, no mark on your record so if you go to buy another gun sometime in the future you're flagged for having been suicidal at one point and can't make the purchase.

You'd be amazed, well maybe you won't, how much people will rebel against discussing simple things like that

Maybe this comes from my time in Afghanistan, where the biggest enemy was yourself. There were more deaths/injuries to suicide and accident than ever by combat, and in just about every single one them you could look at see that negligence towards appreciating risk was the cause. Ya you might get really unlikely and johnny-taliban might get you, but odds are you or your friend is going to do you in.

Hey, I like your signature line!
 
Oh I live in the United States like lots of other people, its a fairly rural place with not a lot of crime which is why I can confidently walk down the street without worried about being raped or murdered. For most people having a gun doesn't help them in life in the least, at least statistically the amount of positive uses of firearms by citizens far outweighs the negative uses. I know there's some source out there which claims a million people every year use their gun for self defense in the US, but those statistics are always open to a lot of error.

How Often Do We Use Guns in Self-Defense? - Businessweek

Point being what really guns under my skin about gun ownership isn't that a lot people own or carry guns is that they do so in a state of ignorance, they don't understand the risks to themselves that guns can create, or the risk to others if they improperly carry or improperly secure at home. I think gun advertisers are completely insane in how they advertise, which does so in a way that encourages and promotes unrealistic and unsafe ideas on how to own a weapon or what owning a weapon is like. I don't think enough people understand the responsibility that comes with owning a weapon, I don't think enough people take the time to think about how carrying a weapon could change their approach to problems or dangerous situations. Something called "weapon effect" where the fact that carrying something so powerful changes the way you think

Weapons effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its not something I say happens to everyone but its something I've personally experienced with some people. None of this is me saying "this applies to everyone all the time," ultimately it comes down to that I don't feel people taking gun ownership seriously enough and my solution to that isn't bans or confiscation, which are political or practically feasible, but rather that people should be educated and seek education into how to be a responsible gun owner.

I'll give another example of what I mean real quick, I made a post a while back where I said if you own a gun and look at the top round in your magazine that YOU are the person most likely of all the people in the world for that round to end up in if it were to find its way into a person. There's self-injury of course but I was referring to suicide, gun owners are about 3 times more likely to kill themselves with their gun than anyone else (legally or not). Why is that? Well suicide is already a bigger problem than homicide but more specifically it has to do with the ease of the act, suicidal people typically seek out the most painless method because even to a suicidal person the final moments are spent in extreme psychological pain, part of your brain is always rebelling against the act and its easier/less painful if you can do something which overcomes that part of the brain in just a second. So the solution is simple, if you're suicidal find somewhere else to place your guns, if your friend may be suicidal talk to him about his guns and of course about his thoughts. Thats it, that's all I'm saying, no bans, no confiscation, no mark on your record so if you go to buy another gun sometime in the future you're flagged for having been suicidal at one point and can't make the purchase.

You'd be amazed, well maybe you won't, how much people will rebel against discussing simple things like that

Maybe this comes from my time in Afghanistan, where the biggest enemy was yourself. There were more deaths/injuries to suicide and accident than ever by combat, and in just about every single one them you could look at see that negligence towards appreciating risk was the cause. Ya you might get really unlikely and johnny-taliban might get you, but odds are you or your friend is going to do you in.



From your own cited link:

Kleck has extrapolated that DGU occurs more than 2 million times a year. Kleck doesn’t suggest that gun owners shoot potential antagonists that often. DGU covers various scenarios, including merely brandishing a weapon and scaring off an aggressor...... Hemenway finds more reliable an annual federal government research project, called the National Crime Victimization Survey, which yields estimates in the neighborhood of 100,000 defensive gun uses per year. Making various reasonable-sounding adjustments, other social scientists have suggested that perhaps a figure somewhere between 250,000 and 370,000 might be more accurate.

If there are 15,000 suicides per year and around 300,000 DGU's a year, DGU's outnumber suicides by 20 to 1.

Accidents hardly bear talking about, as they don't even amount to a fraction of that and have been trending downward for 40 years.

I'd be quick to say that someone who IS suicidal or prone to it probably should not own a gun. Those not so inclined however appear to be more likely to use a firearm in self-defense by a vast margin, than the canard of "oh you'll just shoot yourself" so over-hyped by the anti's.
 
As I said, it wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list of specifics, but to cover the broad basic motives in a concise package. "It just seemed like a good idea, like additional home security, when I moved out to my rural property" as you said, may not fit precisely under number "3. They are aware that their area is not safe, or that "safe areas" are largely an illusion, and wish to be armed to protect themselves against armed criminals."... but close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades. :D

In your rural community, depending on where you reside, a firearm might be a necessity....e.g. black bear, coyote, mountain lion, rattlesnake, etc..

 
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