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Are Affirmative Action programs racist?[W:110]

Are Affirmative Action programs racist?


  • Total voters
    71
  • Poll closed .
AA was put in place to give blacks who would otherwise be still getting screwed around a chance.

how so-if you have a 3.3 GPA and a 1100 SAT why are you getting screwed over when a white kid with a 3.6 and a 1200 gets into a college ahead of you

you think affirmative action was designed to allow blacks with 4.0 and a 99th percentile LSAT to get into Michigan law school ahead of a white guy with a 3.7 and a 95th percentile?

in reality its about blacks with inferior credentials jumping over whites an asians with superior credentials
 
If you grant one of these disadvantaged persons entry into a position they would otherwise not get, due to their background, you had better provide remedial/catch up training.

You should not put people in positions that cannot do the work. That is a mistake. If however, you have two applicants that can do the work, one white and one black, but you don't have any black representation or a shortage thereof, it's not unjust to hire the black guy, due to past discriminatory practices.
 
how so-if you have a 3.3 GPA and a 1100 SAT why are you getting screwed over when a white kid with a 3.6 and a 1200 gets into a college ahead of you

you think affirmative action was designed to allow blacks with 4.0 and a 99th percentile LSAT to get into Michigan law school ahead of a white guy with a 3.7 and a 95th percentile?

in reality its about blacks with inferior credentials jumping over whites an asians with superior credentials

In reality, white people like George W Bush get to go to places like Yale, even though there are blacks way more qualified.
 
You should not put people in positions that cannot do the work. That is a mistake. If however, you have two applicants that can do the work, one white and one black, but you don't have any black representation or a shortage thereof, it's not unjust to hire the black guy, due to past discriminatory practices.

yeah it is because the white guy is being turned down due to his race. that is RACIAL DISCRIMINATION
 
In reality, white people like George W Bush get to go to places like Yale, even though there are blacks way more qualified.

really? which black was more qualified? Yale can do what it wants and in that era going to an elite prep school was an important factor in getting into Yale.

In 1981, the top black accepted into yale law school had lower scores than over 2000 white males who were turned down

are you trying to divert from the FACT that AA means blacks with inferior numbers are getting into schools or jobs ahead of whites/Asians with better scores
 
I don't know but it is a very large group with many pages of names, titles, and photos. It appears to be very ethnically and racially diverse with numerous Hispanics, Asians, African Americans and a number who are racially ambiguous and I really couldn't tell via name or photo. Just quickly scanning just under half the group, I was able to identify 11 people who were clearly African American including the Senior Production Specialist, the Director of Marketing, Research Programmer and policy analyst, Tech Services Managr, Sr Staff Associate, Internal Events Manager and others. Or check it out yourself here: Team

Does that help?

Based on that logic, Southern plantations empowered blacks more than just about any institution of that time.
 
How many blacks are CEOs of fortune 500 corporations? How many whites are CEOs of fortune 500 corporations?

Irrelevant, How many CEOs do the hiring for companies?
 
yeah it is because the white guy is being turned down due to his race. that is RACIAL DISCRIMINATION

Yeah and the following was racist discrimination

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition.

I grew up around the remnants of that s*** in the South. I've experienced mistreatment from people who believe that s***.
 
Irrelevant, How many CEOs do the hiring for companies?

No it is relevant, because it's indicative of the underlying corporate power structure.
 
Yeah and the following was racist discrimination



I grew up around the remnants of that s*** in the South. I've experienced mistreatment from people who believe that s***.

you think its alright to impose racial discrimination on a white who is innocent in order to help a black who was not victimized by discrimination?
 
you think its alright to impose racial discrimination on a white who is innocent in order to help a black who was not victimized by discrimination?

What I am saying to you is that I have worked around whites, I have been in a group of engineers where I was the only black person. I have had some of those people personally apologize to me because they assumed that because I was black that I was dumb. I have had some of those people tell me that they believe black people in general are dumber than whites. I really don't want to hear that s*** about there is no racism and AA is not needed.
 
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What I am saying to you is that I have worked around whites, I have been in a group of engineers where I was the only black person. I have had some of those people personally apologize to me because they assumed that because I was black that I was dumb. I have had some of those people tell me that they believe black people in general are dumber than whites. I really don't want to hear the s*** about there is no racism and AA is not needed.

years ago, 12-15 Students in my college were nominated for the Rhodes Scholarships and we were told to meet with 4 guys from the law or medical school who were RSs

three were white-one was black (a med student). One of the guys behind me snickered to several of us--WONDER HOW THE BLACK GUY GOT A RHODES

well fortunately I took the time to ask him. we had lunch. He was a phi beta kappa at Princeton, an all american and worked at a hospital helping disabled vets. His board scores were much higher than the average at yale med. he was the most qualified man in the room I was in. and he will have people questioning his credentials-as a doctor or RS the rest of his life
 
To trivialize MildSteel's experiences and encounters with racism is simply to deny reality. I know that's going to be a very uncomfortable truth for some of you, but truth is no respecter of beliefs.
 
years ago, 12-15 Students in my college were nominated for the Rhodes Scholarships and we were told to meet with 4 guys from the law or medical school who were RSs

three were white-one was black (a med student). One of the guys behind me snickered to several of us--WONDER HOW THE BLACK GUY GOT A RHODES

well fortunately I took the time to ask him. we had lunch. He was a phi beta kappa at Princeton, an all american and worked at a hospital helping disabled vets. His board scores were much higher than the average at yale med. he was the most qualified man in the room I was in. and he will have people questioning his credentials-as a doctor or RS the rest of his life

That may be so. But there are people that would question his credentials simply because he is black, even if there were no AA.
 
That may be so. But there are people that would question his credentials simply because he is black, even if there were no AA.


maybe-but I have never heard bigots question the credentials of a Jewish Doctor or an Asian engineer because Jews don't' get AA into med schools, nor do Asians at Engineering schools
 
maybe-but I have never heard bigots question the credentials of a Jewish Doctor or an Asian engineer because Jews don't' get AA into med schools, nor do Asians at Engineering schools

Neither were Jews and Asians enslaved in such vast numbers and conditioned for generations to believe that they were inferior to whites.
 
You should not put people in positions that cannot do the work. That is a mistake. If however, you have two applicants that can do the work, one white and one black, but you don't have any black representation or a shortage thereof, it's not unjust to hire the black guy, due to past discriminatory practices.
I was thinking more in terms of educational situations.

For example a college - they could provide remedial training for stuff that was not available to a disadvantaged person.
 
Neither were Jews and Asians enslaved in such vast numbers and conditioned for generations to believe that they were inferior to whites.

nah Jews were just abused for 1000+ years and then subjected to the most horrific genocide in world history
 
nah Jews were just abused for 1000+ years and then subjected to the most horrific genocide in world history

Jews in the United States have not suffered the level of abuse that blacks in the United States have suffered.
 
Jews in the United States have not suffered the level of abuse that blacks in the United States have suffered.

what abuse have modern blacks suffered that is not mainly due to the pathologies of modern black culture.

why did black illegitimacy skyrocket AFTER the CRA of 64 was passed? why did blacks living UNDER JIM CROW have far more stable families?

why do 6% of the population (black males) commit more than half the murders?

as I noted-perhaps before you joined this board, I went to a wealthy prep school that bent over backwards to attract qualified black kids-even some who weren't good athletes. One of those guys was a friend of mine-he sadly died of AIDS about 23 years ago. The school also had large numbers of Jewish and Asian/Indian kids. when my asian or Jewish friends made the honor role or were accepted into a top drawer college or program, the kid was honored by his family-often a party was thrown and all his friends would tell him what a good job he did. when Darrell was accepted into Williams with a full scholarship or when Darrell got the lead role in the big drama production, we all did the same for him but his neighborhood didn't. He told me how his peers in his neighborhood called him "uncle tom". Some kids asked him how he got into our prep school when "he couldn't even dunk".

I was a municipal and then federal attorney for about three decades. Most of the problems blacks have these days aren't caused by "whitey" but is sure easier for "civil rights leaders" to whine about racism then it is for them to tell their followers to quit doing drugs, having 5 kids with 6 different men and dropping out of school

and no, white guys who have never owned slaves or discriminated against blacks should not lose jobs or admissions to black guys with lower scores.
 
what abuse have modern blacks suffered that is not mainly due to the pathologies of modern black culture.

why did black illegitimacy skyrocket AFTER the CRA of 64 was passed? why did blacks living UNDER JIM CROW have far more stable families?

why do 6% of the population (black males) commit more than half the murders?

as I noted-perhaps before you joined this board, I went to a wealthy prep school that bent over backwards to attract qualified black kids-even some who weren't good athletes. One of those guys was a friend of mine-he sadly died of AIDS about 23 years ago. The school also had large numbers of Jewish and Asian/Indian kids. when my asian or Jewish friends made the honor role or were accepted into a top drawer college or program, the kid was honored by his family-often a party was thrown and all his friends would tell him what a good job he did. when Darrell was accepted into Williams with a full scholarship or when Darrell got the lead role in the big drama production, we all did the same for him but his neighborhood didn't. He told me how his peers in his neighborhood called him "uncle tom". Some kids asked him how he got into our prep school when "he couldn't even dunk".

I was a municipal and then federal attorney for about three decades. Most of the problems blacks have these days aren't caused by "whitey" but is sure easier for "civil rights leaders" to whine about racism then it is for them to tell their followers to quit doing drugs, having 5 kids with 6 different men and dropping out of school

and no, white guys who have never owned slaves or discriminated against blacks should not lose jobs or admissions to black guys with lower scores.

Look, I will be honest, I know what you are talking about with regards to the black culture thing. I really don't like it either. That's why, although I really should not have said it here, I have been very critical of both Beyonce and JayZ, because I think they play a role in perpetuating that type of behavior. And I really don't like having to say such things because I understand why they have done such.

Having said that, the brutal truth of the matter is that there is still quite a bit of racism that exists in the United States. It would be there even if there was no AA. Because of that racism, AA still has a role to play.
 
Look, I will be honest, I know what you are talking about with regards to the black culture thing. I really don't like it either. That's why, although I really should not have said it here, I have been very critical of both Beyonce and JayZ, because I think they play a role in perpetuating that type of behavior. And I really don't like having to say such things because I understand why they have done such.

Having said that, the brutal truth of the matter is that there is still quite a bit of racism that exists in the United States. It would be there even if there was no AA. Because of that racism, AA still has a role to play.

good post but I oppose affirmative action since I don't believe in group guilt or group rights

if a black was discriminated against he or she can sue under Title VII. But don't tell my son that he shouldn't go to say OSU Honors programs because some black kid with lower scores deserves AA
 
good post but I oppose affirmative action since I don't believe in group guilt or group rights

if a black was discriminated against he or she can sue under Title VII. But don't tell my son that he shouldn't go to say OSU Honors programs because some black kid with lower scores deserves AA

Fair enough. I understand your position.
 
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