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Are Affirmative Action programs racist?[W:110]

Are Affirmative Action programs racist?


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that would assume that every black kid who got AA came from a more challenging environment than every white kid they displaced. that would be a lie.
If I hadn't said "part of the reason".

especially if say black kids who went to the Hyde Park School or the Kilgore school (two of the top rated elementary schools in the Cincinnati Public School District that sent lots of kids to the magnet school-Walnut hills) were getting breaks over peers from the same neighborhood and elementary schools.
Wait, so this "magnet" school was some kind of...honor roll school? Of a sort? I have zero experience with public school systems.

In that case I I would tend to agree with you that lowering standards just to let more black kids in doesn't make nearly as much sense.

Better to have applied effort to the "lesser" schools in order to bring more if those students through.
 
If I hadn't said "part of the reason".

Wait, so this "magnet" school was some kind of...honor roll school? Of a sort? I have zero experience with public school systems.

In that case I I would tend to agree with you that lowering standards just to let more black kids in doesn't make nearly as much sense.

Better to have applied effort to the "lesser" schools in order to bring more if those students through.

yeah I noted it required a test to get into it
 
But why were the students inferior? I would guess that a part of the reason would be the environment they had to deal with.

I assume by "environment" you mean the blacks proximity to the whites and the "oppression" the blacks suffered at the hands of whites.

But what do we see where blacks are the majority and have been the majority for centuries? We see the poorest standard of living of any people on the planet.

At some point, you've got to quit blaming mean ol' whitey and realize there are differences among racial groups whether you consider it "racist" or not.
 
I assume by "environment" you mean the blacks proximity to the whites and the "oppression" the blacks suffered at the hands of whites.

But what do we see where blacks are the majority and have been the majority for centuries? We see the poorest standard of living of any people on the planet.

At some point, you've got to quit blaming mean ol' whitey and realize there are differences among racial groups whether you consider it "racist" or not.
You assume incorrectly.

What I meant by environment was a combo of financial situation, family structure, and the general culture of their location - "Peer pressure", for lack of a better term.
 
You assume incorrectly.

What I meant by environment was a combo of financial situation, family structure, and the general culture of their location - "Peer pressure", for lack of a better term.

Understood. I'm just so fed up with this "blame evil whitey" for everything I assumed you were doing the same. My mistake.
 
Even if there was no AA, some whites would still hate blacks and practice discriminatory hiring practices to the detriment of blacks.

Yes, and whether or not there is AA, some black people will hate white people to the detriment of both. There are a-holes everywhere among people of all races and among all socioeconomic groups. But most people aren't a-holes and again the war has been won against racism. It is time to stop fighting it. And that means stop forcing people to divide people into groups and treat some people differently than other people. Only then can we hope for most of us to be able to be color blind and just treat people like people.
 
Based on that logic, Southern plantations empowered blacks more than just about any institution of that time.

Well, I'm sure that makes perfectly good sense to you, but I do not see how it relates to my post in any way.
 
huh? the school was forced to take inferior students as a result of AA. less able students hurt the learning environment of the talented

And replaced the idea of meritocracy with racist quotas.

Tom Sowell mentions that this is the primary reason there is such a high failure rate by these same groups-they can't compete and fail out. This appears to not worry liberals in the least-it was never about the student-it was about how it made liberals FEEL.
 
Racism means that one race is better than the other. Affirmative action programs does not hold that. Affirmative actions programs just states that we are not all given a fair chance and that diversity is a good thing in our educational institutions.
 
It's not an attempt at societal unjust discrimination and privilege. It's a system of improving universities.

Not all discrimination is unjust, not all discrimination is bigotry. And not all bigotry is racism. I understand, these are concepts beyond the average Joe, but these are the facts.
No those are your bigoted anti-white racist opinions. Not facts.

Why should whites be discriminated against in academia or the workplace merely because they tend to be much more intelligent than blacks?

IMO intelligence should be encouraged rather than suppressed.
 
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Racism means that one race is better than the other. Affirmative action programs does not hold that. Affirmative actions programs just states that we are not all given a fair chance and that diversity is a good thing in our educational institutions.
AA assumes blacks aren't smart enough or hard working enough to compete

racism
 
AA assumes blacks aren't smart enough or hard working enough to compete

racism
Erm, no. It assumes that various groups are to this day discriminated against in certain avenues of life not due to their abilities but their race or gender alone, thus the need for such legislation to compensate for those inequities. Why so many focus on African Americans alone when discussing AA is curious indeed.
 
That is the part that is not always true, honestly I think it is probably more often they have not had the opportunity. That opportunity does not present itself in high school, it is long before that when they start to figure out what they want to be and what they have to accomplish those goals. I don't believe a kid whose Dad is in jail and Mom is not working has the same lifetime opportunities to accomplish something. If nothing is done we simply perpetuate that cycle, institutionally keeps people in that cycle.
sorry, I won't support injustice directed at an innocent person to make up for injustice that happened to the great great great grandfather of some kid who is too lazy to make good grades
 
While AA programs are racially biased, they are not racist because they do not assume that one race is superior to the rest.
 
While AA programs are racially biased, they are not racist because they do not assume that one race is superior to the rest.

Supposed superiority is not a necessary condition for racism.
 
Yes, and whether or not there is AA, some black people will hate white people to the detriment of both. There are a-holes everywhere among people of all races and among all socioeconomic groups. But most people aren't a-holes and again the war has been won against racism. It is time to stop fighting it. And that means stop forcing people to divide people into groups and treat some people differently than other people. Only then can we hope for most of us to be able to be color blind and just treat people like people.

AA doesn't necessarily have to be dividing. In some cases it has been uniting in that it has brought together people who would otherwise not have been together in the first place, that become friends.

What has been dividing is some Republican politicians and political commentators who have deliberately used AA, to exploit the racist tendencies in some whites. That has been the major source of the divide.
 
Absolutely they are. So is the NAACP. So are black television channels and black magazines. Anything that focuses on one race over others is racist. Full stop.

Let's not forget the Congressional Black Caucus. Even the politicians draw lines.

Either we're a society of equals without color, or we're a society of different races. We can't have it both ways.
 
Neither were Jews and Asians enslaved in such vast numbers and conditioned for generations to believe that they were inferior to whites.

What? You can't be serious.

Millions of Jews were exterminated for being inferior 70 short years ago. At the same time, the American government was rounding up Americans of Asian descent, stealing all of their worldly belongings - including their names - and sending them to work camps.

What an extremely disingenuous comment.
 
You are trying to pretend the word is racist, it is the meaning of Bundy's words when comined into a sentence and their meanings. As Rush says, words have meanings.
Yes, the word "Negro" - the one I copied from your post.
 
You are trying to pretend the word is racist, it is the meaning of Bundy's words when comined into a sentence and their meanings. As Rush says, words have meanings.

So if "Negro" isn't a racist word, then what was your point in using it in that post?
 
I am not going back and looking for it, the sum of what he said is racist, not a single word. Try again.
So if "Negro" isn't a racist word, then what was your point in using it in that post?
 
I am not going back and looking for it, the sum of what he said is racist, not a single word. Try again.

Your post #207.

Let me tell you something I know about the negro...yep Bundy simply cares.



You're welcome.
 
That is called a phrase not a single word. Were you focusing on the word so you could pretend anyone who uses it is a racist? thus making Bundy no more racist than anyone else that uses it?
Your post #207.

Let me tell you something I know about the negro...yep Bundy simply cares.



You're welcome.
 
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