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Death Penalty, for or against

Do you support the death penalty?

  • Total voters
    134
danarhea said:
The executed man in Oklahoma was awake and aware during his execution.... All 43 minutes of it, before he finally died of a heart attack. And, according to those who witnessed the execution, he was in considerable pain during most of it.
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Only 43 minutes?

Oh well. Better than nothing, I suppose.
 
ecofarm said:
Of course it does. People figure... if the government can kill a helpless harmless person who is definitely guilty of bad things, then so can I.

Do you not understand what "rationalization" means?

How do you not understand that it sets a bad example? It's clearly saying "doing this is ok".

Abandon your emotion and you will abandon the bloodthirsty vengeance of the death penalty.
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Setting an example..that's your argument? lol as if society can "set an example" for psychopaths.

ecofarm said:
It's only rational to take life in defense. Bloodthirst and vengeance are the work of emotion, not logic and reason.
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Preserving a threat to society in overcrowded prisons at great cost is hardly logic and reason. Shave a few decades off the appeals process, reduce the work load of the justice system by decriminalizing drugs, and reduce mistakes by improving and processing forensics collected in death penalty cases would reduce the cost of executing most criminals.

ecofarm said:
We should have more pity for those without empathy than we do for those who act in emotion.
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That's is the dumbest argument against the death penalty I have heard in a long time.
 
I would be more likely to support the death penalty, if it were only used in rare instances and for the most heinous crimes. I don't think it should be overused/used in every single case of murder or homicide, used as a tool to make examples out of people, or used for political clout or votes. There are too many concerns- as you pointed out- with putting the government in charge of deciding if people live or die.





Goshin said:
I have long been a supporter of it, as I believe there are some crimes for which there is no other appropriate and suitable punishment.


However, in recent years I've become concerned about the uneven application of the penalty, and the risks of executing an innocent person: you can always free a man if new evidence is found, but you cannot un-execute him.

As such my support for it has waned somewhat... while I have no problem with it in theory (let the punishment fit the crime), in practice the gov't tends to **** things up too often to entrust them with the power of life and death this way.
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danarhea said:
The executed man in Oklahoma was awake and aware during his execution.... All 43 minutes of it, before he finally died of a heart attack. And, according to those who witnessed the execution, he was in considerable pain during most of it.
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well gosh-- i wonder how much pain his victim was as she was buried alive.
 
danarhea said:
The executed man in Oklahoma was awake and aware during his execution.... All 43 minutes of it, before he finally died of a heart attack. And, according to those who witnessed the execution, he was in considerable pain during most of it.
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Greetings, danarhea. :2wave:

Was it botched, or is that a usual procedure in Oklahoma to have them awake and aware? I'm surprised no one intervened. :shock:

Off topic, what how was the Willis trip? Fun?
 
ecofarm said:
We should have more pity for those without empathy than we do for those who act in emotion.
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I have much more pity for those who suffer at their hands. I have no problem putting down a rabid dog, and I have no problem putting down a rabid person.
 
NoC_T said:
With any luck, they'll find their way into the lives of those who desire to coddle them.
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That would be karmic justice! :thumbs:

Greetings, NoC_T. :2wave:
 
Geoist said:
Even if there is absolutely no doubt, as a libertarian I cannot approve of granting the power of life and death to a State that is inherently corrupt and has no reason to kill another human being when he/she can be isolated from society.
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I can easily approve of it, because I can approve of myself, or anyone else, killing in self-defense. As long as there is a fair and just trial, and guilt can be proven, I have no issue at all with a murderer paying with his life. That is the very definition of justice, which is symbolized by a pair of scales.
 
lizzie said:
I have much more pity for those who suffer at their hands. I have no problem putting down a rabid dog, and I have no problem putting down a rabid person.
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If the rabid person is caged and incapable of harming society, that's murder in my book.

Of course, you could always get a job cutting off heads for terrorists.
 
Alyssa said:
Setting an example..that's your argument? lol as if society can "set an example" for psychopaths.
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Not all murderers are psychopaths. Your argument is BS.
 
SheWolf said:
I don't particularly like the argument that execution is just punishment, because we can't prove that position is morally, absolutely correct. I think the legal system and punishment for crime should should be about practicality and results, not about black and white statements and personal beliefs. In instances where I see execution being the most practical, it would be to protect the welfare and safety of society... In other words, taking people out of society that cannot be rehabilitated, are sociopathic, and may continue to be a threat within the prison structure itself and can organize crime and violence on the outside.
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Morality and justice are not the same thing. Justice implies that balance has occurred, and that just payment for a crime has been met. Justice is blind and applied without prejudice. Morality is not.
 
polgara said:
Greetings, danarhea. :2wave:

Was it botched, or is that a usual procedure in Oklahoma to have them awake and aware? I'm surprised no one intervened. :shock:

Off topic, what how was the Willis trip? Fun?
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I posted you a link to the story. IT was botched.
 
ecofarm said:
If the rabid person is caged and incapable of harming society, that's murder in my book.

Of course, you could always get a job cutting off heads for terrorists.
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Don't try to lay the guilt trip on me regarding killing terrorists. I have no pity for them either. If caging were murder in your book, you would not be opposed to killing them.
 
ChrisL said:
It would if they got an actual life sentence though, unless they escaped, but that's quite rare. Besides, there have been horribly misjustices committed by prosecutors and others. Some of these guys are just really politicians. They don't care about anything except getting another notch in their belts with a conviction.
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While I agree with that, about prosecutors I mean. the problem remains that sentences do not mean what they say. As long as there is some soft hearted judge out there, there will always be the possibility of a killer let loose for what ever reason. Perhaps if there was a law that stated if a judge let out a prisoner sentenced to life and that prisoner killed someone, the judge who let him out would finish that prisoner's sentence.
 
lizzie said:
Don't try to lay the guilt trip on me regarding killing terrorists. I have no pity for them either. If caging were murder in your book, you would not be opposed to killing them.
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So what makes us better than them? They kill someone, causing a family unimaginable grief, so we turn around, as civilized people, and do it to another family? It's just kind of sick.
 
ChrisL said:
So what makes us better than them? They kill someone, causing a family unimaginable grief, so we turn around, as civilized people, and do it to another family? It's just kind of sick.
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What makes us better than them? We didn't kill without just cause. That is the difference.
 
lizzie said:
Don't try to lay the guilt trip on me regarding killing terrorists. I have no pity for them either. If caging were murder in your book, you would not be opposed to killing them.
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You misunderstand.

A caged person is no threat to society. There is no need to "put them down". It's just killing for vengeance, purely emotional and pointless.

Terrorists love killing helpless captives. I'm sure they'd let you lop a few heads off to satiate your blood lust.
 
ecofarm said:
You misunderstand.

A caged person is no threat to society. There is no need to "put them down". It's just killing for vengeance, purely emotional and pointless.

Terrorists love killing helpless captives. I'm sure they'd let you lop a few heads off to satiate your blood lust.
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This is spot on. Just because someone has a low value for human life, doesn't that mean we should also. I don't think retribution equates to justice, punishment is for the sake of society and the offender.
 
ecofarm said:
You misunderstand.

A caged person is no threat to society. There is no need to "put them down". It's just killing for vengeance, purely emotional and pointless.

Terrorists love killing helpless captives. I'm sure they'd let you lop a few heads off to satiate your blood lust.
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You can just cool it with the hyperbole. It's not going to affect my position. It isn't killing for vengeance. It is administering justice for those who were wronged.
 
lizzie said:
What makes us better than them? We didn't kill without just cause. That is the difference.
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Death is too heavy a weight for the scale of justice, it breaks it.
 
lizzie said:
You can just cool it with the hyperbole. It's not going to affect my position. It isn't killing for vengeance. It is administering justice for those who were wronged.
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One can never satisfy an individual's desire for justice. The justice system is concerned with justice for society, which is not served with pointless killing.
 
I'm not anti-death penalty per se. When you find a murderer with bodies buried in the basement, the victim's organs in the fridge/freezer, and the perp's DNA all over the murder weapons and the victim's bodies, then there is absolutely no doubt of guilt and I'm for swift execution, not 20 years at club fed while the appeals run out.

However, I'm against the DP being used as a club by promising to take death off the table if people confess, etc. That's almost always what it's used for, and that should be illegal. Also, there are too many people being sentenced to death on circumstantial evidence, people who have later been found to be innocent (thank god for DNA!). That tells me it's being used inappropriately, being used too often, and being used when guilt has not been established beyond all doubt by hard, physical evidence.

As to how the DP should be carried out, I just wanna *facepalm* at the stupidity of the system. My vet can put my dying pet to sleep in ten painless seconds. An overdose of morphine works quickly, painlessly and efficiently. In this day and age, there is no conceivable excuse why a prisoner should writhe, scream, gasp, convulse when they could have been put down in minutes by any one of a dozen drugs, most of which are available on the damned street.
 
NoC_T said:
What else should we refrain from in our lack of omniscience?
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What else compares with destroying a whole universe that is another person?
 
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