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Death Penalty, for or against

Do you support the death penalty?

  • Total voters
    134
Lachean said:
Would you have court cases juried on the national level then? Everyone has to stop what they're doing to address EVERY case?
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Not at all...that would be unworkable obviously. I have no issue with a 12 member jury for guilt/not guilty issues. Deciding whether to have the government kill someone is a completely different issue which is why I would never support the death penalty. I just don't believe that the government should be in the execution business.
 
disneydude said:
There are no legitimate reasons to have a death penalty. The only possible one is vengence....although I would argue that this is not a legitimate reason.
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Sure there is. The DP upholds a societies view that innocent life is so precious that to take it or abuse it (rape, molestation) is such a serious violation that your life will be taken as a consequence. For those that think like me this is the only logical consequence and I get tired of those that can't grasp this logic hurling about "blood lust" and "vengeance". :roll:
 
disneydude said:
Not at all...that would be unworkable obviously. I have no issue with a 12 member jury for guilt/not guilty issues. Deciding whether to have the government kill someone is a completely different issue which is why I would never support the death penalty. I just don't believe that the government should be in the execution business.
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Really? Never?

How about war? Or law enforcement?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Sure there is. The DP upholds a societies view that innocent life is so precious that to take it or abuse it (rape, molestation) is such a serious violation that your life will be taken as a consequence. For those that think like me this is the only logical consequence and I get tired of those that can't grasp this logic hurling about "blood lust" and "vengeance". :roll:
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That is classic vengence. plain and simple
 
disneydude said:
Violence towards guards and other inmates by capital defendants is almost non-existent.
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If just one guard is harmed... and it happens more than you think (I know some prison guards - Sherriff Deputies) then that one is already too much. It affects them and their families. It should never happen.
 
I'm for it, at the hands of the (intended victim) right there, at the time and place of the intended attack. stop letting them run away, shoot them swiftly, many times, with a powerful load, in multiple vital spots.
 
disneydude said:
That is classic vengence. plain and simple
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Well, you are incapable of thinking logically. Letting your emotions run away with you clouds logic and that is why people like you whine about the DP.
 
Cephus said:
Well, they're supposed to. Unfortunately, that's not how things actually work today.
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I think that it could... it would just take such a massive effort that it rarely would. So yeah, you are correct.
 
Lachean said:
Really? Never?

How about war? Or law enforcement?
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Law enforcement is easy. We don't employ police to be executioners and they aren't. There may be times when an officer kills in self defense or defense of others, but that is not different than any person killing in self defense or defense of others. That is a completely different scenario.

The issue of war is more complicated. Generally speaking I am not a big fan of war, although there are times when I agree that it cannot be avoided. In those cases, I support the idea that our goal in wartime activity is not to kill as many of the enemy as possible, but strategically to take out their infrastructure and try to prey upon their weaknesses to get them to surrender. People will always die as a result in times of war, thats unfortunate.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Well, you are incapable of thinking logically. Letting your emotions run away with you clouds logic and that is why people like you whine about the DP.
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LOL.....the exact opposite is true. People who tend to support the death penalty are the ones who allow their emotions to overcome their logic. The whole idea behind vengence is that you are so offended or angry with what the person has done, that the only acceptable consequence is killing them. You have stated so yourself in this thread.
 
lizzie said:
No, it doesn't promote murder. The murder is the unjustified taking of a life for no reason other than the desire to do so. The death penalty is a just penalty for someone who committed murder.
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I don't particularly like the argument that execution is just punishment, because we can't prove that position is morally, absolutely correct. I think the legal system and punishment for crime should should be about practicality and results, not about black and white statements and personal beliefs. In instances where I see execution being the most practical, it would be to protect the welfare and safety of society... In other words, taking people out of society that cannot be rehabilitated, are sociopathic, and may continue to be a threat within the prison structure itself and can organize crime and violence on the outside.

Morally speaking, I have a problem killing a person just because they took a life, especially if that person is rehabilitated, remorseful, and can otherwise be a productive citizen even if they are in prison for life. If a person is in a gang and killed another gang member, that is a lot different than a man raping and killing a deaf and mute elderly woman, or Ted Bundy killing hundreds of women and bragging about it.

The reality of the American justice system is that the law is not applied equally. We do not have access to the same lawyers. I also despite the fact that the death penalty is used as a tool of political posturing; politicians are pressured or feel compelled to be really tough on staying executions, never pardon, and rarely seek further review when an execution is controversial or a man claims innocence. That to me says, nobody in the political system wants to take responsibility for the system. They all pass the buck around and around to each other in the government on this issue, and I don't feel comfortable with that. If the government is going to kill people, then killing citizens should NOT be about political statements and political strength... and when innocent people are killed, somebody should have to take responsibility.... but I know that is asking for too much.
 
Bodhisattva said:
If just one guard is harmed... and it happens more than you think (I know some prison guards - Sherriff Deputies) then that one is already too much. It affects them and their families. It should never happen.
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There are always exceptions to the rule. The reality is that attacks by inmates on prison guards and other inmates are more rare than common. Attacks on guards are generally carried out by non-capital defendants.
 
StillBallin75 said:
It's a complicated question. In THEORY, I don't have a problem with the death penalty in and of itself in that I believe that some people have committed heinous crimes worthy of such punishment. In PRACTICE, however, with the potential of botching executions, the wildly inconsistent application of the death penalty, and the potential for executing innocents, there are simply too many issues with it for the death penalty to remain a practice.
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To me the law should be impartial, equitable, and uniform in such matters.

If you jay walk and are ticketed and convicted of that crime, the penalty for that is THIS.
If you drive drunk and are arrested and convicted of that crime, the penalty for that is THIS for the first offense, THIS for the second. . . etc.
If you physically assault somebody and are convicted, the penalty for that is THIS. . . .
If you are convicted of breaking and entering, burglary, theft, robbery etc., the penalty for that is THIS
If you are convicted of murder, the penalty for that is THIS. . . .and if great pain and suffering is inflicted upon the victim, additional penalties. . . .

But without the death penalty, at some point the maximum penalty is life in prison with no hope for parole. And nothing the criminal then does will increase that penalty which pretty much removes any fear of consequences for doing anything.

And I think there has to be an even more final solution to those who commit such horrendous, heartless, cruel, viscious, and unspeakable crimes that cause unimaginable pain and suffering for their victims. There has to be some incentive to deter a bad person from inflicting such pain and suffering in the first place, or to ensure that nobody ever has to worry about that person escaping or being released on a technicality or otherwise being able to do it again.

Imposing penalties for breaking the law is not vengeance. It is imposing a consequence for breaking the law--a consequence every man, woman, and child knows they are subject to if they choose to break the law. And that includes the death penalty.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I think that it could... it would just take such a massive effort that it rarely would. So yeah, you are correct.
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It could happen but I think it would take another revolution. People are too lazy today and politicians have taken advantage of that fact.
 
disneydude said:
The only person who should decide whether a person lives or dies is God. Even a convicted killer should die in God's time, not the government's.
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I thought about asking just Christians their take on this issue, because Jesus would forgive... he forgave the people that murdered him on the cross.

And I am speaking morally, but I think forgiveness and redemption is a greater force than punishing somebody with death. I know it's not easy to forgive, but from my moral POV, it's the right thing to do. It is WWJD. I could never be an executioner, and it freaks me out that people actually sit in a room and watch condemned men and women die. To me it just represents the utter darkness and despair of the human psyche to sit in a room and feel pleasure watching another person die. I could't do it. I wouldn't want to do it.


On a side note...

I have read a few stories about serial killers.. really disgusting people that have killed children and all sorts of people. These people are sick in the head, and every now and then I have came across a true crime story where a serial killer admits that one of their victims haunts them. In those cases the victims said something along the lines of "I am sorry, I am sorry," "I forgive you," "God, help you," "God, save his soul," etc.

I think it's really interesting that that sticks with them so much. I am not sure but I wonder if it's because many serial killers are trying to fulfill a fantasy in their killings, and in those cases, the victim did not give them what they wanted or fantasized about. I suppose their fantasy is feeling control and the victim in fear, screaming, crying, etc. They don't fantasize about people saying their sorry and praying for them.
 
StillBallin75 said:
It's a complicated question. In THEORY, I don't have a problem with the death penalty in and of itself in that I believe that some people have committed heinous crimes worthy of such punishment. In PRACTICE, however, with the potential of botching executions, the wildly inconsistent application of the death penalty, and the potential for executing innocents, there are simply too many issues with it for the death penalty to remain a practice.
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I do not execution should be used in all murder cases, such as ones where only 1 person was killed or when it was not premeditated. But people that slaughter, and torture their victims with a slow and extremely painful death. The way the United Sates court system works it is not likely an innocent will be executed. Once a person is convicted of murder in states that have the death penalty there is a penalty phase that the prosecution asks for either life imprisonment if they think their is a chance to reform them, or death if the murder is so sick in the head and not reform able. The jury then reviews the evidence, how heinous the murder is, and if they murderer is reform able, then they give the verdict of life or death. While on death row inmates are there for well over a decade, and have all the tools to get a appeal, or if the are innocent to prove their innocence. 12 people would not condemn another human to death if their was any doubt in their mind about their innocence.
 
I totally and completely understand... When those two guys were caught in the home invasion and killed everybody, including the little girls, set the house on fire, and the dad escaped, I think they deserved to be put to death. Those guys were total psychopaths and absolutely frightening.

MMC said:
Heya SW.
hat.gif
I am against the death penalty except for extreme and some unusual case. I don't believe in the Right of the State or Government to put people to death.
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SheWolf said:
I thought about asking just Christians their take on this issue, because Jesus would forgive... he forgave the people that murdered him on the cross. And I am speaking morally, but I think forgiveness and redemption is a greater force than punishing somebody with death. I know it's not easy to forgive, but from my moral POV, it's the right thing to do. It is WWJD. I could never be an executioner, and it freaks me out that people actually sit in a room and watch condemned men and women die. To me it just represents the utter darkness and despair of the human psyche to sit in a room and feel pleasure watching another person die. I could't do it. I wouldn't want to do it. On a side note... I have read a few stories about serial killers.. really disgusting people that have killed children and all sorts of people. These people are sick in the head, and every now and then I have came across a true crime story where a serial killer admits that one of their victims haunts them. In those cases the victims said something along the lines of "I am sorry, I am sorry," "I forgive you," "God, help you," "God, save his soul," etc. I think it's really interesting that that sticks with them so much. I am not sure but I wonder if it's because many serial killers are trying to fulfill a fantasy in their killings, and in those cases, the victim did not give them what they wanted or fantasized about. I suppose their fantasy is feeling control and the victim in fear, screaming, crying, etc. They don't fantasize about people saying their sorry and praying for them.
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Along the same lines....I also feel strongly that the death penalty is really the easy way out. I think that Life without the possibility of parole is a much harsher sentence. I know....me personally....I would rather die than have to spend every waking moment of the rest of my life in a 9x5 jail cell.
 
SheWolf said:
I totally and completely understand... When those two guys were caught in the home invasion and killed everybody, including the little girls, set the house on fire, and the dad escaped, I think they deserved to be put to death. Those guys were total psychopaths and absolutely frightening.
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Well with there being those who have no other relatives out there.....is why I mentioned some that could be unusual. Especially if all are killed and there is none to decide the fate.
 
I am against the use of the death penalty not because I feel bad for murderers, but because I think that innocent people have been put to death. I think that those receiving LWOP type sentences should be given the option to off themselves though.

And if you are going to execute someone, don't use some cocktail of drugs the contents of which are kept secret from the general population. We should know exactly how people are executed in this country. I would advise keeping it simple and inexpensive. Instead of using expensive drugs that make the process murky and don't even work correctly, how about a 9mm? Or a rope? You're already killing someone, do it quick, far less painfully, and on the cheap.

Just my two cents.
 
disneydude said:
LOL.....the exact opposite is true. People who tend to support the death penalty are the ones who allow their emotions to overcome their logic. The whole idea behind vengence is that you are so offended or angry with what the person has done, that the only acceptable consequence is killing them. You have stated so yourself in this thread.
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Sorry bub... wrong. You don't see me shouting or getting angry with people here. You see me talking about consequences. It is you insulting others with cries of vengeance and eco shouting blood lust at others that are emotional. When my kid does something wrong they get a consequence. The DP is just a natural extension of the consequence system. Sorry that your emotions are blinding you from this simplicity... *shrugs*
 
disneydude said:
Along the same lines....I also feel strongly that the death penalty is really the easy way out. I think that Life without the possibility of parole is a much harsher sentence. I know....me personally....I would rather die than have to spend every waking moment of the rest of my life in a 9x5 jail cell.
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Then at least make it forced labor camps or something...
 
Middleground said:
You must be a reincarnation of times past when it was cool to cheer, clap, bring your kids and have a picnic all the while watching people be beheaded. Are you a fan of disembowelment, too?
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I prefer the KISS principle. Keep it simple, stupid. I fail to find sympathy with cold blooded murders. I see no reason to treat cold blooded murders with kid's glove and give them all the niceties of the world. If I had my way, each individual murderer would be killed in the exact fashion they killed whomever they killed. Actually if one stops and thinks about it, the guillotine is swift, quick and relative painless.

say what you will, but in my opinion there is something wrong in a society that give murderers more sympathy than the victims and the people they killed. you can have all the sympathy you want for murderers and killers, myself, my sympathy lies with those whom they killed, wounded and made to suffer.
 
disneydude said:
Along the same lines....I also feel strongly that the death penalty is really the easy way out. I think that Life without the possibility of parole is a much harsher sentence. I know....me personally....I would rather die than have to spend every waking moment of the rest of my life in a 9x5 jail cell.
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I wasn't alive when the Manson murders happened, but I think society got more out of by them serving life. We saw them rehabilitated, even turn to God, and try to offer insight to what lead them to be taken in by Manson and eager to follow him. They were essentially deprogrammed after being brainwashed. I am glad that they experienced that and realized to the full extent what they did, and how they hurt others. I think that that is better than putting them to death while they are brainwashed and incapable of seeing their actions. They were young people, and they are going to live a long time with knowing what they did. That is greater punishment than brainwashed loons going to death thinking they are martyrs.
 
SheWolf said:
The death penalty is in the news again in America because states are turning to new, untested drug concoctions to use for lethal injection, and sometimes the drugs being used in executions cause complications and prolonged dying. There was a case a few months ago out of Ohio, but the story coming out of Oklahoma seems the most controversial yet. It actually delayed another man's execution.

A link to the story is below...



So do you favor the death penalty?

Do you think the death penalty will last in America considering the declining availability of traditional lethal injection drugs?



Oklahoma’s horrible ‘botched execution’ shows again why the death penalty should be abolished
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I don't see the DP as having any benefit to modern society and it only provides harm and wastes money. I see no reason why we should still have it.
 
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