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Death Penalty, for or against

Do you support the death penalty?

  • Total voters
    134
Government should hold all life sacred.
 
Perotista said:
I prefer the KISS principle. Keep it simple, stupid. I fail to find sympathy with cold blooded murders. I see no reason to treat cold blooded murders with kid's glove and give them all the niceties of the world. If I had my way, each individual murderer would be killed in the exact fashion they killed whomever they killed. Actually if one stops and thinks about it, the guillotine is swift, quick and relative painless.

say what you will, but in my opinion there is something wrong in a society that give murderers more sympathy than the victims and the people they killed. you can have all the sympathy you want for murderers and killers, myself, my sympathy lies with those whom they killed, wounded and made to suffer.
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:agree: "I didn't do it - I don't care who saw me" seems to be the norm these days. While years of appeals are taking place, we feed, house, and clothe people who have committed murder and other heinous crimes. While dispatching them the same way they did their victims seems fair and just to me, we're so "civilized" today that much care is taken that they don't "suffer!" WTH? For my part, they should all be lobotomized if people are reluctant to have them killed! Maybe that might serve as a deterrent because nothing else seems to work!

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:
 
SheWolf said:
I wasn't alive when the Manson murders happened, but I think society got more out of by them serving life. We saw them rehabilitated, even turn to God, and try to offer insight to what lead them to be taken in by Manson and eager to follow him. They were essentially deprogrammed after being brainwashed. I am glad that they experienced that and realized to the full extent what they did, and how they hurt others. I think that that is better than putting them to death while they are brainwashed and incapable of seeing their actions. They were young people, and they are going to live a long time with knowing what they did. That is greater punishment than brainwashed loons going to death thinking they are martyrs.
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That reminds me of 1984, how in the novel the state would ensure that someone was rehabilitated and loved Big Brother, then saw fit to execute them.

In this sense, though, that makes a lot of sense. Perhaps instead of a quick death the real issue should be trying to convey to the person what they did and make them feel how they've wronged someone. A lot of people wouldn't get it, but that would still be a hell of a punishment in its own right for those who would break down and realize what they've done. Curious how many people might attempt to take their own life after such treatment.

That Oklahoma man who raped and killed an infant? I don't think he'd get it. Nevertheless, interesting post.
 
polgara said:
:agree: "I didn't do it - I don't care who saw me" seems to be the norm these days. While years of appeals are taking place, we feed, house, and clothe people who have committed murder and other heinous crimes. While dispatching them the same way they did their victims seems fair and just to me, we're so "civilized" today that much care is taken that they don't "suffer!" WTH? For my part, they should all be lobotomized if people are reluctant to have them killed! Maybe that might serve as a deterrent because nothing else seems to work!

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:
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lobotomized, that works for me. I really do wonder about a society that puts more sympathy on those who murder, pillage and rape than on their victims. It's like, shame on your for being a victim. You deserved what you got. It is "Oh you poor boy, you murdered those people and tortured them, so we will be extra nice to you and make sure you do not suffer. Pity the murderer and not those who committed the murder, such is our society today.
 
Perotista said:
lobotomized, that works for me. I really do wonder about a society that puts more sympathy on those who murder, pillage and rape than on their victims. It's like, shame on your for being a victim. You deserved what you got. It is "Oh you poor boy, you murdered those people and tortured them, so we will be extra nice to you and make sure you do not suffer. Pity the murderer and not those who committed the murder, such is our society today.
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Our constitution forbids the use of punishment deemed cruel and unusual.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Our constitution forbids the use of punishment deemed cruel and unusual.
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I do not think the guillotine is either cruel or unusual. What I think is cruel is to have more pity, more sympathy, to ensure those who murder, pilliage and rape are treated better than the victims.

I suppose it all depends on your or my definition of cruel and unusual, but in reality it is not what you and me think that is. It is what those 9 men and women in black robes think it is.
 
Perotista said:
I do not think the guillotine is either cruel or unusual. What I think is cruel is to have more pity, more sympathy, to ensure those who murder, pilliage and rape are treated better than the victims.

I suppose it all depends on your or my definition of cruel and unusual, but in reality it is not what you and me think that is. It is what those 9 men and women in black robes think it is.
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Consider the fact that few countries use the death penalty these days.
 
disneydude said:
The only person who should decide whether a person lives or dies is God. Even a convicted killer should die in God's time, not the government's.
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Exactly. I am an atheist, but one does not have believe in literal, biblical God to see the danger of idolatry. Giving State the authority to kill someone who is neutralized, isolated and harmless means endowing a demonstrably flawed human institution with the God-like power of final judgment.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Consider the fact that few countries use the death penalty these days.
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My mom used to say, "If someone jumps off the roof, does that mean you have to jump too." If other countries think coddling murderers and give more sympathy and pitty to those who murder, rape and pillage, does not mean this country has to. Just like I do not have to jump off the roof just because someone else does. KISS, I go by that principal.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Well, you are incapable of thinking logically. Letting your emotions run away with you clouds logic and that is why people like you whine about the DP.
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Actually, it is the other way around. The proponents of death penalty are driven by their emotions, "animal spirits".

Yes, it is natural to seek vengeance.
I mean, if were a father of one of the kids gunned down by Mr. Breivik on July 22, 2011 - well, the first thing I would do on the day he is released from prison (those super-"humane" Scandinavian laws...) is to sink as many rounds into his chest as I could, before cops bring me down.

But.

This is not how you build or sustain civilization. This is how you destroy it.

Do I know what "justice" is? How? Oh, sure, it says so-and-so in a sacred book - the Torah, if I am lucky; the Complete Works of Parteigenosse Lenin/Hitler/Mao - if I was born on the wrong side of the fence....

Screw that. I do not know what's "justice". Have I ever been to another person's brain? Felt what he or she feels? Knew what she or he knows? Suffered from exactly the same kind of madness?

Justice is impossible. Period. Unless you are the all-knowing God. Are you?
 
Cyrylek said:
Exactly. I am an atheist, but one does not have believe in literal, biblical God to see the danger of idolatry. Giving State the authority to kill someone who is neutralized, isolated and harmless means endowing a demonstrably flawed human institution with the God-like power of final judgment.
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How do you feel about thousands of criminals being released in California because they don't have the money to keep them incarcerated? Who is responsible if even one of them kill again? If a jury has found them guilty in a court of law, why is punishment wrong? What would you suggest be done with them?

Greetings, Cyrylek. :2wave:
 
the death penalty............. government sanctioned murder.
 
SheWolf said:
I totally and completely understand... When those two guys were caught in the home invasion and killed everybody, including the little girls, set the house on fire, and the dad escaped, I think they deserved to be put to death. Those guys were total psychopaths and absolutely frightening.
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One of the worst stories in recent memory. Bless those poor girls and their mother. Not even in their home were they safe. That one monster raped that little girl. And their poor father. That story still makes me shudder. Those 2 pieces of filth have no place in society.
 
polgara said:
How do you feel about thousands of criminals being released in California because they don't have the money to keep them incarcerated? Who is responsible if even one of them kill again? If a jury has found them guilty in a court of law, why is punishment wrong? What would you suggest be done with them?

Greetings, Cyrylek. :2wave:
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Keep them locked up. Forever. Unless and until some evidence pops up that they were wrongfully accused.

Look, my absolute opposition to death penalty is not any kind of kindness overflow, or any residual Catholic sentiment. Hell, if had to choose between DP and life in prison, shoot me right now.

This is not about them, really. This is about us.

Being a gentlewoman from Ohio, you may not quite understand it (emotionally), but I was born and raised in places much less forgiving. If I would exact my - perfectly justified, by the standards of the last two thousands years - revenge on everyone who certainly deserves it ....well--- Volga, Don, Dnieper and a number of smaller rivers in the Eastern Europe would turn red for a few weeks....

No.

This is the only possible answer: NO.

Don't get me wrong: I am a lifetime member of the NRA, all-out American patriot, tea-party-ing right-wing libertarian, etc, etc .

But on this one, there can be no compromise: Countries worth defending do not execute helpless prisoners. I believe in America that is worth defending.
 
SheWolf said:
The death penalty is in the news again in America because states are turning to new, untested drug concoctions to use for lethal injection, and sometimes the drugs being used in executions cause complications and prolonged dying. There was a case a few months ago out of Ohio, but the story coming out of Oklahoma seems the most controversial yet. It actually delayed another man's execution.

A link to the story is below...



So do you favor the death penalty?

Do you think the death penalty will last in America considering the declining availability of traditional lethal injection drugs?



Oklahoma’s horrible ‘botched execution’ shows again why the death penalty should be abolished
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I have long been a supporter of it, as I believe there are some crimes for which there is no other appropriate and suitable punishment.


However, in recent years I've become concerned about the uneven application of the penalty, and the risks of executing an innocent person: you can always free a man if new evidence is found, but you cannot un-execute him.

As such my support for it has waned somewhat... while I have no problem with it in theory (let the punishment fit the crime), in practice the gov't tends to **** things up too often to entrust them with the power of life and death this way.
 
If killing is wrong, then killing to prove that killing is wrong is still wrong. And killing IS wrong, even when you feel like it's justified retribution.
 
tres borrachos said:
One of the worst stories in recent memory. Bless those poor girls and their mother. Not even in their home were they safe. That one monster raped that little girl. And their poor father. That story still makes me shudder. Those 2 pieces of filth have no place in society.
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I agree, and as much as that makes me want to kill them with my bare hands, I'm still anti death penalty. I know that it's a knee jerk reaction on my part and that LWOP is a fine way to separate these animals from the rest of society.
 
Paschendale said:
If killing is wrong, then killing to prove that killing is wrong is still wrong. And killing IS wrong, even when you feel like it's justified retribution.
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Taking life is acceptable and necessary in certain circumstances though. Imprisoning others against their will is not a moral act under normal circumstances either, but it can certainly be justified as a punishment for violent and damaging behavior.
 
Perotista said:
I fail to find sympathy with cold blooded murders.
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Me too, and yet I am opposed to the death penalty.

I see no reason to treat cold blooded murders with kid's glove and give them all the niceties of the world.
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Me too, and yet I am opposed to the death penalty.

If I had my way, each individual murderer would be killed in the exact fashion they killed whomever they killed.
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So what does that make YOU? How about a cold-blooded killer? What you want to do is no different than the cold-blooded killer. Think about it.

Actually if one stops and thinks about it, the guillotine is swift, quick and relative painless.
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King Henry VIII, is that you?

say what you will, but in my opinion there is something wrong in a society that give murderers more sympathy than the victims and the people they killed. you can have all the sympathy you want for murderers and killers, myself, my sympathy lies with those whom they killed, wounded and made to suffer.
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To me, a society that kills it's own is savage. And it's not about being sympathetic at all. It's all about not being a society that itself commits cold-blooded murder.
 
a351 said:
Taking life is acceptable and necessary in certain circumstances though. Imprisoning others against their will is not a moral act under normal circumstances either, but it can certainly be justified as a punishment for violent and damaging behavior.
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Only if it's in self defense is it acceptable to me, and it's never acceptable for the government to kill citizens because too many mistakes are made.
 
Paschendale said:
If killing is wrong, then killing to prove that killing is wrong is still wrong. And killing IS wrong, even when you feel like it's justified retribution.
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Killing isn't always wrong. It's always regrettable, but sometimes necessary.
 
Clayon Lockett deserved to suffer. He brutally raped a young woman. Then burried her alive. Qni
 
Cyrylek said:
Actually, it is the other way around. The proponents of death penalty are driven by their emotions, "animal spirits".

Yes, it is natural to seek vengeance.
I mean, if were a father of one of the kids gunned down by Mr. Breivik on July 22, 2011 - well, the first thing I would do on the day he is released from prison (those super-"humane" Scandinavian laws...) is to sink as many rounds into his chest as I could, before cops bring me down.

But.

This is not how you build or sustain civilization. This is how you destroy it.

Do I know what "justice" is? How? Oh, sure, it says so-and-so in a sacred book - the Torah, if I am lucky; the Complete Works of Parteigenosse Lenin/Hitler/Mao - if I was born on the wrong side of the fence....

Screw that. I do not know what's "justice". Have I ever been to another person's brain? Felt what he or she feels? Knew what she or he knows? Suffered from exactly the same kind of madness?

Justice is impossible. Period. Unless you are the all-knowing God. Are you?
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Awesome post, and I couldn't agree more with everything you posted here.
 
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