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Is Snowden a traitor?

Read article ... Do you agree he is a traitor or disagree?


  • Total voters
    81
Actually, people like yourself were calling for his head from day one, so I don't think the situation would've magically changed at all if he had stopped after the first release.

And by the way, I posed a scenario and asked what you would do. Would you convict the black guy for driving simply because it was the law, or would you use jury nullification because you recognize that the law is unconstitutional and bull****?

I would have to check what the first releases were. If they referred only to infringements of citizens rights domestically, I don't see that it would have been treason. You would have to check what the exact information was, however.

And as to the other question, I would not want to live in a country, where I would get into that position, which is one reason I do not live in a country with capital punishment. In any event, I feel that such a law is not in order and would work on getting it changed. I do that a lot.
 
...I might read it.

y.

And that is exactly, what I meant, when I distrusted the seriousness of your request. Why put in an effort, if the result doesn't interest you enough to read it. I find that rather shady.
 
Not at all. He's an American hero, IMO. I believe history will treat him as such.

Yeah, him and Pollard and Walker - surely headed for the hero history books all :roll:

Nobody loves a traitor. Snowden probably isn't even liked by the people handling him now in Russia.




I find it interesting (this is not directed at YS, but is a general comment) the number of people who are unable to disentangle their belief that the NSA metadata must be bad from the idea that therefore anyone who exposes it must be good. It's as if binary black/white, good/evil were the only options available in human conduct.
 
Actually, people like yourself were calling for his head from day one, so I don't think the situation would've magically changed at all if he had stopped after the first release.

And by the way, I posed a scenario and asked what you would do. Would you convict the black guy for driving simply because it was the law, or would you use jury nullification because you recognize that the law is unconstitutional and bull****?

It is an inapt analogy. The law that says "you are not allowed to divulge secrets such as how we use SIGINT to anticipate and protect our troops from Taliban attacks" is neither unConstitutional nor BS.

Again, Snowden supporters have yet to explain why - if he was such a hero concerned only with the Constitution - he would release all that information that has nothing whatsoever to do with collection on Americans. It is fully possible to believe that the NSA metadata program was wrong, and that Snowden's actions are nonetheless treasonous - your opposition to a metadata program does not necessitate extending hero status to someone for exposing it.
 
Most of his leaks impacted foreign nations or our countries gathering of information on foreign nations including many that want to do us harm. What was his point in such damage while fleeing to China and Russia?

He could have gone to careful planned journalist with a few domestic leaks to make a point and then have the courage to stand for his beliefs. He was ruthless and careless and did not have the knowledge to know what he was leaking about foreign nations and it harmed his fellow citizens.

Then he is in contact with Russia before he runs to China and is now on joking terms with Putin, Yeaaa right ... refuge and smirky joking with Putin?

He is a traitor in my opinion.

We have 'conclusive evidence' that Edward Snowden leaks hurt UK national security, say spy chiefs | Mail Online
 
You don't have to be allies to trade. But China, Iran, and North Korea area all excellent intelligence targets.



WTF - I linked to you an aggregate of Snowden's own document releases giving up programs which had nothing to do with the American metadata program.



That is simply bluntly incorrect. We have information we don't share with them, and they have information they don't share with us; each IC is responsible to informing it's own decision-makers to the best of it's ability on all targets. We have five eyes, but beyond that, it's pretty much a bi-lat to open season.

And, again, you continue to ignore that China, Iran, North Korea, the Taliban, Russia, et al are not our allies. You have no good reason for Snowden to expose our collection efforts against them.



:doh Dude. It's a big deal. It's a non event sort of in the way that the 9/11 attacks were non terrorist attacks.



:lol: that you would attempt to make that juxtaposition indicates you have little idea what you are talking about.

Well, I was in the middle, thanks for helping me move towards the defense of his actions against an arrogant and oppressive government agency. They broke Constitutional law when they spied on everyone without authorization, and any reporting of it seems patriotic now. Again, appreciate your help in deciding my defense was misguided of an erroneous espionage law. I guess that was your goal?
 
So answer the question. What would you consider damage? The fact that the trade negotiations have become more difficult and will most likely be more costly to americans? Or the fact that information from allies is less freely available because they no longer think the USA able to keep it confidential? There are lots of this type of damages and I must admit that I can no really believe anyone interested in international relations could not be aware of this. This is so much the case that I suspect such demands of "proof" are usually made knowing how much work it is to collect the evidence combined with no interest in results that contradict the ingrained belief.


Touché!
 
Zero to Godwin in 40 posts. :2razz:


And what if it's actually applicable in this situation, does your Godwin still win because it's your only defense?
 
If those security secrets violate the Constitution then no, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land.

Is it the
Supreme Law of the Land in Russia? Because that's where Snowden and all of his secrets decided to go to. I'm glad you're comfortable with Putin and the Russian Oligarchs having access to all of our military secrets. I'm not.
 
He had to go into hiding unless he wanted to end up dead. And eventually, they will get to him. It's a matter of time.

Well, it's good that he fled to the Democratic Paradise that is Russia. I'm sure they have no interest in the military secrets he has willingly provided to them. I hope you are right - at some point in time somebody does get him. Hell, the Russians may arrange an unfortunate accident from him once they've gotten every shred of information they can.
 
Is it the
Supreme Law of the Land in Russia? Because that's where Snowden and all of his secrets decided to go to. I'm glad you're comfortable with Putin and the Russian Oligarchs having access to all of our military secrets. I'm not.

Snowden recently played puppet for Putin by going along that Putin only spies on terrorists. Snowden has not shown to be a patriot or admirable or anything but a careless coward who harmed his own country while empowering our enemies.

That is not stamping approval on all of the NSA yet that does not justify ANY of Snowden's actions.

The founders would have shot him.
 
Unlike you I won't heronize those who wiped their fecal covered asses with the Constitution under the guise of security.

^^

People are making this about blind patriotism. Such arguments are boring and lacking. Also, no one seems to care that there is undeniable proof that the US government is continually violating the constitution. Sad, really.
 
Most of his leaks impacted foreign nations or our countries gathering of information on foreign nations including many that want to do us harm. What was his point in such damage while fleeing to China and Russia?

He could have gone to careful planned journalist with a few domestic leaks to make a point and then have the courage to stand for his beliefs. He was ruthless and careless and did not have the knowledge to know what he was leaking about foreign nations and it harmed his fellow citizens.

Then he is in contact with Russia before he runs to China and is now on joking terms with Putin, Yeaaa right ... refuge and smirky joking with Putin?

He is a traitor in my opinion.

We have 'conclusive evidence' that Edward Snowden leaks hurt UK national security, say spy chiefs | Mail Online

Yes, those who thing he's a patriot don't seem bothered at all by the fact that he's now good friends with a vicious former KGB agent. I guess when you loathe your own country, you'll suck up to anybody.
 
^^

People are making this about blind patriotism. Such arguments are boring and lacking. Also, no one seems to care that there is undeniable proof that the US government is continually violating the constitution. Sad, really.

No, what is sad is that there are people who hate their own country so much that they consider a man who gave critical military secrets to one of the most repressive regimes in the world - and a regime that still has thousands of nuclear weapons targeted at this country a hero. That's what's sad.
 
No, what is sad is that there are people who hate their own country so much that they consider a man who gave critical military secrets to one of the most repressive regimes in the world - and a regime that still has thousands of nuclear weapons targeted at this country a hero. That's what's sad.

yes, yes.. the US is a victim now.. PAHleeez. It's about time the US government is exposed for the corrupt organization it really is. And make no mistake, secrets/intrigue destroy free societies. How can government officials be held accountable if no one knows what is going on? They cannot. But they freely lie to the public knowing that nothing will come of it, and the corruption continues. If someone does have the gonads to speak up, they are discredited as a traitor, and people conveniently ignore blatant constitutional violations. Security or liberty- pick one. Because you cannot have both.
 
yes, yes.. the US is a victim now.. PAHleeez. It's about time the US government is exposed for the corrupt organization it really is. And make no mistake, secrets/intrigue destroy free societies. How can government officials be held accountable if no one knows what is going on? They cannot. But they freely lie to the public knowing that nothing will come of it, and the corruption continues. If someone does have the gonads to speak up, they are discredited as a traitor, and people conveniently ignore blatant constitutional violations. Security or liberty- pick one. Because you cannot have both.

Why are you so happy that Snowden is gushing military secrets to the former KGB agent Putin? Do you really hate your own country and its military that much? Very sad. Or are you just a Putinista?

The US Government is a corrupt organization? If you feel that way, then move. Russia sounds like just your cup of tea.
 
Why are you so happy that Snowden is gushing military secrets to the former KGB agent Putin? Do you really hate your own country and its military that much? Very sad. Or are you just a Putinista?

The US Government is a corrupt organization? If you feel that way, then move. Russia sounds like just your cup of tea.

Don't like it.. move argument. So very uncreative.

No, actually i care enough about this country and what it should be- what it was MEANT to be- that I criticize it. And I accept that danger comes with liberty. Security comes with a Utopian society that can simply never exist. Fact is, liberty requires blood sacrifices. It is not free. Never has been.
 
I am thankful to Edward Snowden. I am not much of a lawful person, I guess, if I am honest and it comes right down to it. Or perhaps I believe that the laws he 'broke' were not lawful laws to begin with.

Strict matters of law aside, I do fully believe that Snowden sought to serve the American people. Despite the government's propaganda campaign, it is clear to me that this is what he has achieved, lawbreaker or no. The claims about his motivations are completely unfounded, and run contrary to all the evidence.

Macro issues include that I really don't want America to be the America that wants to be a superpower. I think striving to be a superpower destroys domestic liberty.
 
He is absolutely a traitor and a dumb snot to boot. If he really were interested in righting a wrong, you seek advice and think things through. You can make noise and get attention in more ways than one.
 
Don't like it.. move argument. So very uncreative.

No, actually i care enough about this country and what it should be- what it was MEANT to be- that I criticize it. And I accept that danger comes with liberty. Security comes with a Utopian society that can simply never exist. Fact is, liberty requires blood sacrifices. It is not free. Never has been.

Yeah, but it isn't your blood, is it? Thanks to the traitor Snowden, it's likely to be some 19 year old kid from Kansas who's blood gets shed. I think you'd be far happier with a leader like Putin and an Oligarchy like Russia.

I love hypocrites who complain about their country and their government yet have no problem availing themselves of the opportunities provided by such a terrible country and government.
 
I am thankful to Edward Snowden. I am not much of a lawful person, I guess, if I am honest and it comes right down to it. Or perhaps I believe that the laws he 'broke' were not lawful laws to begin with.

Strict matters of law aside, I do fully believe that Snowden sought to serve the American people. Despite the government's propaganda campaign, it is clear to me that this is what he has achieved, lawbreaker or no. The claims about his motivations are completely unfounded, and run contrary to all the evidence.

Macro issues include that I really don't want America to be the America that wants to be a superpower. I think striving to be a superpower destroys domestic liberty.

Well, with the help of your hero Snowden, Vlad the Imperialist may just accomplish the removal of America as a world power. Then you and he can get together and toast that remarkable accomplishment.
 
Well, with the help of your hero Snowden, Vlad the Imperialist may just accomplish the removal of America as a world power. Then you and he can get together and toast that remarkable accomplishment.

Oh, how incredibly stupid. Without any evidence whatsoever, you morph Snowden into this boogeyman who is capable of facilitating the downfall of a ridiculously powerful nation by a second rate power. How ever do you sleep at night with such a paranoid imagination?

boogety boogety boogety boo!!!
 
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