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Is Snowden a traitor?

Read article ... Do you agree he is a traitor or disagree?


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Exactly and according to the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee on Sunday condemned former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden as a “thief” and said he may have had help from Russia.

“I believe there’s a reason he ended up in the hands, the loving arms, of an FSB agent in Moscow,” said Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Mich.), referring to Russian President Vladi*mir Putin, a former head of the Russian security service. “I don’t think that’s a coincidence.”

When did Snowden first contact Russia and why was he joking with Putin recently on a Russian talk show about spying?

Well that's interesting. I wonder if those defending him now would still do so if it was revealed that he was working with the Russians all along.
 
Benedict Arnold betrayed military secrets during wartime to the enemy that directly cost many American lives...
what Snowden did was NOTHING like that at all..
None of us have any idea the depth of Snowden's treachory.
And as if this isn't a time of war, with the Afghan theatre and the ongoing war on terrorism after the decade with Iraq.
Not to mention Russia/Ukraine, North Korea, Iran, Israel/Palestine and the China/Japan dispute to name a few, but not all.

I was actually unaware that other Nations in alliance with the USA were hurt by this Rosenburg .
 
Yes. He turned on Big Brother and provided aid and comfort to the American People, you know, the enemy of the Government...
 
Well that's interesting.
I wonder if those defending him now would still do so if it was revealed that he was working with the Russians all along.
Ever since this crap with Ukraine started, I've believed Snowden was involved in giving up NATO secrets.
I don't like Rogers when he is political, such as his marbles to chess comment.
But when a House Chair, the highest meaninful office in the House on a specific subject speaks, I listen .
 
The American people and the USA Government/Constitution are in harmony brother.
Yes. He turned on Big Brother and provided aid and comfort
to the American People, you know, the enemy of the Government...
Incredible that you would not ALSO recognize the aid and comfort given to Putin and Russia and God knows who else by Rosenburg Jr .
 
The American people and the USA Government/Constitution are in harmony brother.

Incredible that you would not ALSO recognize the aid and comfort given to Putin and Russia and God knows who else by Rosenburg Jr .

Oh I don't think so...No, no, no...:naughty

Hey, you think being protected from the US doesn't come with a price?
 
Again, you have not shown that the Espionage Act is unconstitutional.

can you show they are constitutional?

he, being part of a u.s government organization is making that charge that they are not.

it was express when the story broke that snowden took a oath to the federal law to keep secrets he knew.

he states, they violate constitutional, since that is a very serious charge against the federal government should not be allowed to plea his case without the threat of government trying to use federal law to lock him away, without being heard.
 
can you show they are constitutional?

he, being part of a u.s government organization is making that charge that they are not.

it was express when the story broke that snowden took a oath to the federal law to keep secrets he knew.

he states, they violate constitutional, since that is a very serious charge against the federal government should not be allowed to plea his case without the threat of government trying to use federal law to lock him away, without being heard.

Considering the law has stood almost 100 years, I see zero evidence it is in fact unconstitutional. Good luck on getting SCOTUS to buy into your argument. Their opinion actually matters.
 
Can you blame him? What they are doing to Chelsea Manning is ungodly cruel and that is where he would be right now.

There are consequences to actions. Just about anything she does now will go through the legal system. That is a direct result of her actions.
 
Considering the law has stood almost 100 years, I see zero evidence it is in fact unconstitutional. Good luck on getting SCOTUS to buy into your argument. Their opinion actually matters.

oh you know the law then do you, ..if you know it that good, then you sure have no trouble providing us with info, but I don't see how, since the intimate details of anything snowden knows and what he has seen is still not known to the public, and it not likely we will never know it all.

the whole point of the snowden case is he states he took an oath, to keep silent about things he which he discovered, and in his mind were unconstitutional.

since we do know that the government has been listening to our communications, I don't see even the court can say that is legal, since the restriction placed on the federal government by the bill of rights is clear about a person being secure in the 4th.
 
Not at all. He's an American hero, IMO. I believe history will treat him as such.

You really think Snowden is a hero? He probably thought so of himself. That much is true and lends a certain sympathy to his misbegotten action. But believing in what you do does not constitute a valid excuse for treason.
 
oh you know the law then do you, ..if you know it that good, then you sure have no trouble providing us with info, but I don't see how, since the intimate details of anything snowden knows and what he has seen is still not known to the public, and it not likely we will never know it all.

the whole point of the snowden case is he states he took an oath, to keep silent about things he which he discovered, and in his mind were unconstitutional.

since we do know that the government has been listening to our communications, I don't see even the court can say that is legal, since the restriction placed on the federal government by the bill of rights is clear about a person being secure in the 4th.

What he knows is entirely irrelevant to the Espionage Act. The question is whether he delivered classified information about national defense to some one not entitled to have it, something he fully admits to. You might want ot read up on the law, instead of just claiming everything is unconstitutional.
 
There are consequences to actions. Just about anything she does now will go through the legal system. That is a direct result of her actions.

And what we are doing to her is cruel and unusual. Locking someone up in a cage with no human contact also has consequences.
 
You really think Snowden is a hero? He probably thought so of himself. That much is true and lends a certain sympathy to his misbegotten action. But believing in what you do does not constitute a valid excuse for treason.

well if you go by the founders he did not commit treason.

treason consist of a condition of war, this can be found by reading the constitutional convention notes on the subject of aug 20 1787
 
What he knows is entirely irrelevant to the Espionage Act. The question is whether he delivered classified information about national defense to some one not entitled to have it, something he fully admits to. You might want ot read up on the law, instead of just claiming everything is unconstitutional.

what if he knows things which are true and they are unconstitutional....should be forget that, and only focus on federal law.

since the constitution place restrictions on the federal government, and the 4th being a restriction, but government is listening to us in our communication, it is clear that is unconstitutional.
 
well if you go by the founders he did not commit treason.

treason consist of a condition of war, this can be found by reading the constitutional convention notes on the subject of aug 20 1787

That is not quite true. There need not be war to commit treason. Wherein you are right is, however, that treason is often associated with attempts to overthrow governments or kill monarchs. This action has however caused so much damage to the sovereign's government, that "treason" should apply.
 
I know this may seem old news yet more is being released and a recent conversation with a friend does not view him this way.

I followed this story lightly and would like to dig more and hear your thoughts.

Here is an article that sums up my perspective so far. What do you think?

Yes, Edward Snowden Is a Traitor | The Diplomat

There's another word I was trying to think of other than traitor, but it escapes my thoughts presently. When I think of traitor, I think of a person who in a US Military uniform using his rank or higher position to sell or pass secrets to enemies or nations which aren't friendly to the US.

The word spy comes to mind, but that's not exactly an accurate description either.
 
That is not quite true. There need not be war to commit treason. Wherein you are right is, however, that treason is often associated with attempts to overthrow governments or kill monarchs. This action has however caused so much damage to the sovereign's government, that "treason" should apply.

the constitution spells out treason, and if you read the constitutional convention notes on the clause concerning treason of aug 20 you will see the founders in framing that very clause, talk about America at war with an enemy when they talk of treason.

why do not people read the founders....since treason is in the constitution.
 
what if he knows things which are true and they are unconstitutional....should be forget that, and only focus on federal law.

since the constitution place restrictions on the federal government, and the 4th being a restriction, but government is listening to us in our communication, it is clear that is unconstitutional.

None of which is relevant to whether be broke the law, or whether that law is constitutional. Nowhere in the Espionage Act does it say you can deliver secrets to those who should not have access if you somehow feel justified to do so.
 
None of which is relevant to whether be broke the law, or whether that law is constitutional. Nowhere in the Espionage Act does it say you can deliver secrets to those who should not have access if you somehow feel justified to do so.

I did not say it did.... however you seem to want to focus on federal law, while I am concern more with constitutional law, which is higher law.

while giving information to a foreign power in not in the interest of the American people, violating constitutional law, is a more serous threat to the American people.

it would be nice to see snowden able to in court viewed by the public, and state what he knows which he considers unconstitutional, only those things which he would deem within constitution law, would by kept away from the public.

however I don't want snowden, thrown in jail never to see or hear from him again, with a trial conducted in secret, I want the story, not what the government has to tell us.
 
the constitution spells out treason, and if you read the constitutional convention notes on the clause concerning treason of aug 20 you will see the founders in framing that very clause, talk about America at war with an enemy when they talk of treason.

why do not people read the founders....since treason is in the constitution.

Well, sometimes one needs to read beyond the founders' scripture, as good as that is. This here might interest you:

"18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason | LII / Legal Information Institute

Now you might not like that or want it changed. But it stands and is applicable as of this time.
 
I know this may seem old news yet more is being released and a recent conversation with a friend does not view him this way.

I followed this story lightly and would like to dig more and hear your thoughts.

Here is an article that sums up my perspective so far. What do you think?

Yes, Edward Snowden Is a Traitor | The Diplomat

If your country is doing something constitutionally illegal, and you tell the world about it, it isn't the person who told the world that ruined international relationships, it was the asshat bureaucrats that decided to do what they did in the first place.

If Bob saw Joe murder someone and Bob reported Joe to the cops, do we blame Bob for ruining Joe's relationships?

Snowden: American Patriot

None of which is relevant to whether be broke the law, or whether that law is constitutional. Nowhere in the Espionage Act does it say you can deliver secrets to those who should not have access if you somehow feel justified to do so.

So to you it absolutely doesn't matter what the government was doing, whether it be spying on its citizens or killing kids in dark rooms. Anyone who reports something like that to the American public is a traitor?

There's another word I was trying to think of other than traitor, but it escapes my thoughts presently. When I think of traitor, I think of a person who in a US Military uniform using his rank or higher position to sell or pass secrets to enemies or nations which aren't friendly to the US.

The word spy comes to mind, but that's not exactly an accurate description either.

Considering he informed YOU that YOUR rights are being violated, I think the term you're looking for is national hero.
 
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