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Is Snowden a traitor?

Read article ... Do you agree he is a traitor or disagree?

  • Total voters
    81
DA60 said:
I never said you did...now please answer the question.
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The question is entirely irrelevant to what I have stated. I am not going to play that kind of game. If you want to talk about what I have said, then fine, but I am not going to go argue things I have not.
 
grip said:
If the soldiers at the death camps in Nazi Germany had refused to gas those Jewish captives, would they have been considered national traitors? Yes, probably, but they would've been heroes to the world. It's not a great comparison but it is about following human conscience.
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Zero to Godwin in 40 posts. :2razz:
 
grip said:
China sure sells us a lot of crap for a non-ally.
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You don't have to be allies to trade. But China, Iran, and North Korea area all excellent intelligence targets.

I'm sorry but you don't make a strong enough argument based on anything but assumption and biased emotional appeal for me to answer
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WTF - I linked to you an aggregate of Snowden's own document releases giving up programs which had nothing to do with the American metadata program.

Intelligence has a job to do in cooperation with allies, not on them without knowledge,
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That is simply bluntly incorrect. We have information we don't share with them, and they have information they don't share with us; each IC is responsible to informing it's own decision-makers to the best of it's ability on all targets. We have five eyes, but beyond that, it's pretty much a bi-lat to open season.

And, again, you continue to ignore that China, Iran, North Korea, the Taliban, Russia, et al are not our allies. You have no good reason for Snowden to expose our collection efforts against them.

though that is just one of those sneaky things they all know happens. I'm sorry but Snowden just didn't do anything that most of them weren't already aware of. It's really a big non event to the intel community, only to the public.
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:doh Dude. It's a big deal. It's a non event sort of in the way that the 9/11 attacks were non terrorist attacks.

While you salute the spooks of our governments intelligence, I'll proudly recognize the higher principles our Nation stands for.
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:lol: that you would attempt to make that juxtaposition indicates you have little idea what you are talking about.
 
Redress said:
The question is entirely irrelevant to what I have stated. I am not going to play that kind of game. If you want to talk about what I have said, then fine, but I am not going to go argue things I have not.
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Oh, I see.

So we must discuss what you said but not what I said...gotcha.

Well, I am not playing that 'game'.

If I can answer your questions, then you can answer mine.

You refuse...fine.

Then we are done here.


Good day.
 
Dion said:
I know this may seem old news yet more is being released and a recent conversation with a friend does not view him this way.

I followed this story lightly and would like to dig more and hear your thoughts.

Here is an article that sums up my perspective so far. What do you think?

Yes, Edward Snowden Is a Traitor | The Diplomat
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Gotta say, good thread. The votes are pretty evenly divided and, reading the posts, this issue seems to defy the usual party line arguments and divisions.
 
X Factor said:
Zero to Godwin in 40 posts. :2razz:
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What's funny is he accuses others of depending on emotionalism, but has to reach back to try to use the holocaust to defend himself.
 
Alyssa said:
Snowden gave all but his life to expose lies and corruption. He is a patriot.
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That's why he's hiding behind Putin's skirt? The Russians will kick the little bastard out eventually. Then he can take up his position as the American hero he is, breaking big rocks into little rocks at Ft. Leavenworth for the rest of his life.
 
At 15-11 in the poll, this reminds me of the approximate proportion of the Amash coalition in Congress supporting Paul's crusade against the NSA.
NeoCons (Hawks) in both parties versus TEAs and Liberal DEMs (isolationists).
So yes it is an example of the new coalition in the USA on foreign policy.
Those who dismiss the end-total damage to the USA and its Allies are ..........
X Factor said:
Gotta say, good thread. The votes are pretty evenly divided and, reading the posts, this issue seems to defy the usual party line arguments and divisions.
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X Factor said:
Gotta say, good thread. The votes are pretty evenly divided and, reading the posts, this issue seems to defy the usual party line arguments and divisions.
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Yes ... interesting secondary component ...this was not a party line divided issue. Even conservatives applauded this quote by Clinton

"I think turning over a lot of that material—intentionally or unintentionally—drained, gave all kinds of information, not only to big countries, but to networks and terrorist groups and the like. So I have a hard time thinking that somebody who is a champion of privacy and liberty has taken refuge in Russia, under Putin's authority."

With sarcasm creeping into her voice, Clinton implied that Snowden acted all too friendly toward Vladimir Putin, whose country has been harboring Snowden since last August.

"And then he calls in to a Putin talk show and says, 'President Putin, do you spy on people?' And President Putin says, 'Well, from one intelligence professional to another, of course not.' 'Oh, thank you so much!' I mean really. I don't know, I have a hard time following it."
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In fact I think Mrs. Clinton was too soft on the coward by saying turning over material to our adversaries intentionally or unintentionally. hell it was intentional and he fled and empowered a country that electronically spies on us and would shoot him in the head in public with no trial had ne beeen one of their own acting as a traitor.
 
Not at all. He's an American hero, IMO. I believe history will treat him as such.
 
Dion said:
Yes ... interesting secondary component ...this was not a party line divided issue. Even conservatives applauded this quote by Clinton

In fact I think Mrs. Clinton was too soft on the coward by saying turning over material to our adversaries intentionally or unintentionally. hell it was intentional and he fled and empowered a country that electronically spies on us and would shoot him in the head in public with no trial had ne beeen one of their own acting as a traitor.
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Mrs. Clinton has to be very careful not to upset the delicate balance she needs to win.
Liberals already don't trust her and neither do the young who are moving to R. Paul IMO.
This is the #1 issue I have with voting against Paul in the general, though I think he will be the next Perot some day and start an actual 3rd party .
 
As I said Xy, foreign policy makes strange bedfellows.
Would you have imagined being on the same side of an issue with McCain and Feinstein ?
X Factor said:
Sure. An American hero along the lines of Benedict Arnold.
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X Factor said:
Sure. An American hero along the lines of Benedict Arnold.
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What a pathetic and incredibly simplistic comparison.

Benedict Arnold betrayed military secrets during wartime to the enemy that directly cost many American lives...what Snowden did was NOTHING like that at all.

What a waste of time on this you are, IMO.
 
NIMBY said:
As I said Xy, foreign policy makes strange bedfellows.
Would you have imagined being on the same side of an issue with McCain and Feinstein ?
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I'm one of the rare people in the world who actually likes John McCain. Whatever views he holds, whether I agree or disagree, I sure feel like he's earned the right to his opinions. Actually, I'm more marveling at being on the same side of any issue as iguanaman and Juanita. :D
 
DA60 said:
Oh, I see.

So we must discuss what you said but not what I said...gotcha.

Well, I am not playing that 'game'.

If I can answer your questions, then you can answer mine.

You refuse...fine.

Then we are done here.


Good day.
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When you try and twist what is said, you have to expect to get called on it. I will even help you out and make it a bit easier on you: people can be more than one thing...
 
X Factor said:
Sure. An American hero along the lines of Benedict Arnold.
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Hardly. He exposed one of the biggest scandals and violations of our rights in US history. That hardly makes him company with Benedict Arnold.
 
DA60 said:
What a pathetic and incredibly simplistic comparison.

Benedict Arnold betrayed military secrets during wartime to the enemy that directly cost many American lives...what Snowden did was NOTHING like that at all.

What a waste of time on this you are, IMO.
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Right, that was a pathetic comparison but comparing the US govt to Nazi Germany is nooo problem. Can't say I'm too concerned with what a traitor sympathizer thinks of me.
 
Your Star said:
Hardly. He exposed one of the biggest scandals and violations of our rights in US history. That hardly makes him company with Benedict Arnold.
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And then promptly turned national security information over to the Russians in return for asylum.
 
X Factor said:
Right, that was a pathetic comparison but comparing the US govt to Nazi Germany is nooo problem. Can't say I'm too concerned with what a traitor sympathizer thinks of me.
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I did not compare the U.S. government to Nazi Germany...I used the Nazi's as a hypothetical.

You are useless to talk to on this.

We are done.


Good day.
 
X Factor said:
And then promptly turned national security information over to the Russians in return for asylum.
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Can you blame him? What they are doing to Chelsea Manning is ungodly cruel and that is where he would be right now.
 
X Factor said:
I'm one of the rare people in the world who actually likes John McCain.
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On foreign policy, he is so bi-polar in his behavior.
Some days I love him when he is supportive of the admin, the next day I hate him when he's admiring Putin/Assad.
Btw, did you see Boehner mock his own GOP House over Immigration--priceless--
Whatever views he holds, whether I agree or disagree, I sure feel like he's earned the right to his opinions.
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He certainly has, and now he has a big mess with the VA on his plate in Phoenix.
Actually, I'm more marveling at being on the same side of any issue as iguanaman and Juanita. :D
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As I often say, changing coalitions on dp are fascinating.
I'm not a flaming Neo-Con, but I would have bombed Assad's ass to Hell and back,
as my GOP Congressman would have and who supported Obama on this issue without playing politics .
 
Your Star said:
Can you blame him? What they are doing to Chelsea Manning is ungodly cruel and that is where he would be right now.
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Absolutely I can blame him and I do. Not finding the argument that avoiding potential punishment is justification for being a sell out particularly compelling.
 
X Factor said:
And then promptly turned national security information over to the Russians in return for asylum.
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Exactly and according to the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee on Sunday condemned former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden as a “thief” and said he may have had help from Russia.

“I believe there’s a reason he ended up in the hands, the loving arms, of an FSB agent in Moscow,” said Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Mich.), referring to Russian President Vladi*mir Putin, a former head of the Russian security service. “I don’t think that’s a coincidence.”

When did Snowden first contact Russia and why was he joking with Putin recently on a Russian talk show about spying?
 
X Factor said:
Absolutely I can blame him and I do. Not finding the argument that avoiding potential punishment is justification for being a sell out particularly compelling.
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Avoiding punishment that is against our own laws is not something that I could blame anybody for.
 
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