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Is Cliven Bundy a Racist?

Is Cliven Bundy a Racist?


  • Total voters
    51
His exact quote:

And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”



When you include what's after the comma that you left off, you will see what I meant. He made a comparison, as I said, not a statement without a comparison.

The full context did not help him. It only compounds his ignorance. Under current law black people are allowed to move, sell their homes, marry whom they want, leave their state, etc. These freedoms did not exist for black slaves.

I'm sure he knows what happened to slaves as we all do.

The truly frightening thing is if this were true.

But that wasn't the point of his comment when you read what he said. He wasn't saying the government is raping or beating them less. He's saying that both are evil, and in his mind, what the government has done to people who rely on it to survive may be worse. It's not a thought process I agree with, but I certainly understand why he said it. And it doesn't make him the boogieman I know people on the far left want him to be.

Relying on government subsidies for your living is sad, but it's a thousand miles from slavery.
 
The full context did not help him. It only compounds his ignorance. Under current law black people are allowed to move, sell their homes, marry whom they want, leave their state, etc. These freedoms did not exist for black slaves.



The truly frightening thing is if this were true.



Relying on government subsidies for your living is sad, but it's a thousand miles from slavery.

You don't need to give me a history lesson on slave life. I already know about it.

You have your opinion on what's a thousand miles away, and he has his. Is he right? No. But I know where he was going with it, I know what generation he's from, and I know the far left want to paint this guy as the next Atilla the Hun - and the attacks on Hannity and "the right" are just a bonus to everyone. This whole thing has taken a life of its own. He's an old man and probably suffering from some form of dementia. His words were not a big deal, unless someone can provide some evidence that he actually did some damage to blacks in any way. I haven't seen a shred of that.

Wow, words. BFD. I can say I think Mormon women may be better off as hookers than married at the age of 8 to some old pervert. Does that make me prejudiced against Mormon women? Nope. Neither option in my statement is a good one, but nobody gets hurt by me saying it, do they?

People say stupid things all the time. Words aren't as powerful as actions and they aren't a punishable offense usually. If they were, our jails would be full of politicians, movie stars, and every private citizen who ever said anything dumb in his/her life.
 
Cliven Bundy is the Nevada cattle rancher who is refusing to pay the Federal government grazing fees and owes approximately $1.1 million.

The possible choices in this poll are:

Yes
No
I think so
I don't think so
I don't know.
Other

If you were to ask most racists if they are racist, they'll tell you "NO!" When I was a racist, I certainly believed I wasn't racist...and the same went for my racist family.

Thing is, most racists are what I call "good racists"...meaning that they will risk their lives to save that black person (or whatever race(s) it is they don't like) in a heartbeat...but as soon as that black person is out of earshot, out come all the old assumptions and racist judgements.

In other words, most racists honestly don't realize that they are racist.
 
Yes, I know that was over the line. Don't bother, I'm reporting myself right now... and it was well worth it.

Do Oath Keepers also get jump master wings for stepping off curbs and scuba bubbles for visiting a pool?
 
Other. Who cares? That has nothing whatsoever to do with his case.
 
The issue, in this thread, is whether or not Cliven Bundy is a racist. One that feels that the constitution/founding fathers treated blacks as equals is clearly a moron and probably a racist.
So if he IS a racist, its ok for the G to come and levy whatever fine and screw him over. Got it.
 
So if he IS a racist, its ok for the G to come and levy whatever fine and screw him over. Got it.

That is nonsense. What did I ever say to indicate that was my stance? My point, that you seem totally unable to grasp, is that this thread is about Cliven Bundy's comments about racial matters - not his troubles with BLM.
 
Yea, not what he said at all.

It's the premise of his position. I've heard it before. Blacks were better off when we allowed them to be slaves on plantations than when we allow them to be slaves on welfare.
 
I don't know if he is racist so much as a product of his era and as such ignorant. Being ignorant does not make one a racist, just makes you ignorant.

However if he is not ignorant and is fully aware then yes, racist.
 
I don't know if he is racist so much as a product of his era and as such ignorant. Being ignorant does not make one a racist, just makes you ignorant.

However if he is not ignorant and is fully aware then yes, racist.

There is also the distinct possibility that he is both ignorant and racist - they are not mutually exclusive traits. ;)
 
There is also the distinct possibility that he is both ignorant and racist - they are not mutually exclusive traits. ;)

True. Whether that is the case here or not I can't really say. Not enough to go on to decide definitively.
 
Here's the thing ... what he said was stupid by itself so the NYT reporting didn't have to edit it like they did.
And if Bundy had any sense & better awareness he could have made a valid point without wrapping all that other crap around it.
Here's a more complete text of his statement. ...

... and so what I've testified to you -- I was in the Watts riot, I seen the beginning fire and I seen that last fire. What I seen is civil disturbance. People are not happy, people are thinking they don't have their freedoms, they didn't have these things, and they didn't have them.

We've progressed quite a bit from that day until now, and we sure don't want to go back. We sure don't want the colored people to go back to that point. We sure don't want these Mexican people to go back to that point. And we can make a difference right now by taking care of some of these bureaucracies, and do it in a peaceful way.

Let me tell, talk to you about the Mexicans, and these are just things I know about the negroes. I want to tell you one more thing I know about the negro. When I go, went, go to Las Vegas, North Las Vegas, and I would see these little government houses, and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids -- and there's always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch. They didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.

And because they were basically on government subsidy -- so now what do they do? They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never, they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered are they were better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things? Or are they better off under government subsidy?

You know they didn’t get more freedom, they got less freedom -- they got less family life, and their happiness -- you could see it in their faces -- they wasn't happy sitting on that concrete sidewalk. Down there they was probably growing their turnips -- so that’s all government, that’s not freedom.

Now, let me talk about the Spanish people. You know, I understand that they come over here against our Constitution and cross our borders. But they’re here and they’re people -- and I’ve worked
side by side a lot of them.

Don’t tell me they don’t work, and don’t tell me they don’t pay taxes. And don’t tell me they don’t have better family structures than most of us white people. When you see those Mexican families, they’re together, they picnic together, they’re spending their time together, and I’ll tell you in my way of thinking they’re awful nice people. And we need to have those people join us and be with us not, not come to our party.
 
I am in no way shape or form defending Bundy here....


But for all those who voted yes..... How can you prove that he believes that the "negro" is inferior to another race, or that his race is superior to all other races based upon this statement????



Because..... isn't that the standard response every time a black person makes a racially charged statement???
 
Should be interesting in 2030 to see how many high school boys are named Cliven.
 
I doubt he is racist... not in the sense that he has been portrayed.
 
Here's the thing ... what he said was stupid by itself so the NYT reporting didn't have to edit it like they did.
And if Bundy had any sense & better awareness he could have made a valid point without wrapping all that other crap around it.
Here's a more complete text of his statement. ...

... and so what I've testified to you -- I was in the Watts riot, I seen the beginning fire and I seen that last fire. What I seen is civil disturbance. People are not happy, people are thinking they don't have their freedoms, they didn't have these things, and they didn't have them.

We've progressed quite a bit from that day until now, and we sure don't want to go back. We sure don't want the colored people to go back to that point. We sure don't want these Mexican people to go back to that point. And we can make a difference right now by taking care of some of these bureaucracies, and do it in a peaceful way.

Let me tell, talk to you about the Mexicans, and these are just things I know about the negroes. I want to tell you one more thing I know about the negro. When I go, went, go to Las Vegas, North Las Vegas, and I would see these little government houses, and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids -- and there's always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch. They didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.

And because they were basically on government subsidy -- so now what do they do? They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never, they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered are they were better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things? Or are they better off under government subsidy?

You know they didn’t get more freedom, they got less freedom -- they got less family life, and their happiness -- you could see it in their faces -- they wasn't happy sitting on that concrete sidewalk. Down there they was probably growing their turnips -- so that’s all government, that’s not freedom.

Now, let me talk about the Spanish people. You know, I understand that they come over here against our Constitution and cross our borders. But they’re here and they’re people -- and I’ve worked
side by side a lot of them.

Don’t tell me they don’t work, and don’t tell me they don’t pay taxes. And don’t tell me they don’t have better family structures than most of us white people. When you see those Mexican families, they’re together, they picnic together, they’re spending their time together, and I’ll tell you in my way of thinking they’re awful nice people. And we need to have those people join us and be with us not, not come to our party.

Greetings, Bubba. :2wave:

What you have posted above sounds like a man's opinion on what he has personally seen over the years. Is he not entitled to his own thoughts and opinions? I have to agree with him on the Mexicans I saw while spending time last Summer in Houston. I saw hard-working Mexican men, who did their jobs with no chit-chat or cigarette breaks, and it was 94 to 95 degrees every day. Maybe they smoke while going from lawn maintenance job to job, but they worked harder than I would have at those temps!

And speaking of the black population in any big city, surrounded by concrete and weedy vacant lots filled with trash, how can they not become apathetic and non-caring? Think Detroit! Living like that would be unbearably depressing! No jobs to go to, not a lot of safe playgrounds for children have fun in, not enough dads around to mentor young boys, so what are they to do? Boredom and anger at their lot in life carried to extreme becomes dangerous, as we have seen. I'm inclined to agree with Bundy. He's not a politician who knows how to sugarcoat problems, and his choice of words might have offended many people, but he's telling us his opinion on what he's seen, and there is much truth in his words, which might explain the hate and vitriol shown to him by those who should know better!
 
Yeah, what a shock you'd feel that way about people pledged to the Constitution. :roll:

Those oathkeepers and those supporting Bundy know exactly jack and **** about the constitution.
 
Cliven Bundy is the Nevada cattle rancher who is refusing to pay the Federal government grazing fees and owes approximately $1.1 million.

Tell me, what do you call the actions of the NYT for falsely reporting what he said in an effort to destroy the man?

Isn't accusing someone of racism, and knowing the power that organization has (NYT) by painting a totally false picture of the man more vile than being a racist? You could start another poll asking that question.

If you will libel someone for being a racist, and you call them an idiot (at best), what do you have reserved for those at the NYT that tried to destroy Bundy? Bundy will pay a price for the false reporting, his name has been damaged... what damage should the NYT receive?

I'd say a few hundred million dollars ought to be about right. Enough for Bundy to buy or take over the rag.
 
Greetings, Bubba. :2wave:

What you have posted above sounds like a man's opinion on what he has personally seen over the years. Is he not entitled to his own thoughts and opinions? I have to agree with him on the Mexicans I saw while spending time last Summer in Houston. I saw hard-working Mexican men, who did their jobs with no chit-chat or cigarette breaks, and it was 94 to 95 degrees every day. Maybe they smoke while going from lawn maintenance job to job, but they worked harder than I would have at those temps!

And speaking of the black population in any big city, surrounded by concrete and weedy vacant lots filled with trash, how can they not become apathetic and non-caring? Think Detroit! Living like that would be unbearably depressing! No jobs to go to, not a lot of safe playgrounds for children have fun in, not enough dads around to mentor young boys, so what are they to do? Boredom and anger at their lot in life carried to extreme becomes dangerous, as we have seen. I'm inclined to agree with Bundy. He's not a politician who knows how to sugarcoat problems, and his choice of words might have offended many people, but he's telling us his opinion on what he's seen, and there is much truth in his words, which might explain the hate and vitriol shown to him by those who should know better!
I hear ya Pol...
If he had instead summarized his point with something like ...
"With the wrong leadership, the Federal Government can keep various groups of citizens in a dependent condition in order to maintain the leadership's own political longevity. And what they're doing to me and others like me is also an attempt to do the same thing."
... then he wouldn't have looked like such a racist schmuck.
 
There is no option for: Does it matter?

Whether or not he's a racist doesn't make a difference when it comes to this issue. He has no right to graze on land that doesn't belong to him.
 
Last edited:
It's the premise of his position. I've heard it before. Blacks were better off when we allowed them to be slaves on plantations than when we allow them to be slaves on welfare.

Yea, still not what he said or meant. But keep swinging the racist card around.
 
Yea, still not what he said or meant. But keep swinging the racist card around.

It's clearly the premise. I don't care if you cannot see that. Frankly, I'm not surprised that most people can't; however, I think they could if they tried.
 
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