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Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

  • Total voters
    93
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
That we do, aggregate society comes at cost. There's no such thing as a free lunch and the labor of others is not free, we have to pay for it. That is neither here nor there. Don't deflect, what rights are infringed upon.
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In the USA we consider it a civil right for all Americans to be served at establishments open to the public. Allowing discrimination would violate that right.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Kal'Stang said:
Then try it. ;) See how far you get. ;)
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Your response makes no sense to the post of mine you reproduced. I stated a basic truth - that anything in the Constitution including the bill of rights can be changed via a future amendment. This reality completely and utterly destroys the nonsense that a right is forever and cannot be taken away.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

AliHajiSheik said:
I made no attempt to speak for any number of slaves or gays, I'm pointing out that you are diagnosing them with a mental illness. The nonsense is yours on this line of thinking.
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The sorry attempt to work in slaves or gays gives you no intellectual cover as my comments applies to ALL people who operate under the self imposed delusion that they have certain rights when they do not have them to exercise and the government of their nation does NOT recognize the rights they claim. Refusing to accept reality is a mental delusion simply because you believe otherwise when everyday reality screams the opposite.

This applies to all races, all genders, all persuasions of all people.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
anarchy is no government...the federal is limited to its national powers, meant to be used for the union itself,, not in the internal life's of the people.
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And a limited government is what we have.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Federalist said:
Hey, you're the one advocating government force be used to deny people the ability to control access to their own property. That does indeed sound rather piggish to me.
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Actually it is American and not piggish at all. And it is America, its people and its laws that you have trouble with.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

AlbqOwl said:
I think you need to get your eyes checked.
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Why - because I am not fooled by high sounding malarkey which in the end is designed to allow bigotry and discrimination? I see perfectly and you don't like that.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
Actually it is American and not piggish at all. And it is America, its people and its laws that you have trouble with.
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No, not all of America. Just laws that violate the ability of a person to control access to his own property.

But I have learned what to expect. You have shown yourself to be very happy to violate the person and property of your fellow man.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
The sorry attempt to work in slaves or gays gives you no intellectual cover as my comments applies to ALL people who operate under the self imposed delusion that they have certain rights when they do not have them to exercise and the government of their nation does NOT recognize the rights they claim. Refusing to accept reality is a mental delusion simply because you believe otherwise when everyday reality screams the opposite.

This applies to all races, all genders, all persuasions of all people.
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You are demonstrating the moral certainty of a government employee. You deny that slaves had the right to assert freedom because the government at the time did not recognize their claim. That is the flaw of your claim and your second flaw is that you refuse to acknowledge it. Let's be factual, a right is only something you have if you can defend it. I don't have the expectation that government cannot make a mistake and sometimes it takes a bit of noise for government to recognize that, if someone felt strongly enough. As a former government employee, I don't think you can appreciate that. Pity.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Kal'Stang said:
So in your opinion no one has Rights. Just privileges that people let other people have. That explaines alot of your posts. And its a good thing SCOTUS disagrees with you.
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Like SCOTUS always upholds rights.

ernst barkmann said:
i can excise my rights on my property without the police being involved, you cant.
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Actually I can and I've shown it. Where the police get involved (absent threats of violence) is where I violate your property rights by not leaving. The police are not there because of my speech. They are there because of my not leaving. That is an issue with your right and not mine.

the problem we face is people thinking all of their rights, give them authority were ever they go to say and act without impunity [ because they think, "hey" its my right], and you the owner have no recourse to stop them.
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Agreed and I've been making this point the whole time. We all have rights and when we exercise them there are consequences. Some positive and some negative and many depend upon how you view whether the consequence is positive or negative. Even when we look at the main example being used in this thread regarding business owners on their private business property. If they employ discrimination based upon race or gender or orientation or any of the "protected classes" odds are there will be negative consequences as a result. Do not mistake my saying that simply because my rights are intact at all times even while on your property, that I am saying that I can exercise them without consequence. I am only noting that they are intact and are not reduced to privileges while on your property.

this idea, [we have here in the thread] people get in their minds, is....you must treat me with respect, dignity, and fairly........which they don't get..........i don't have to do any of those things..........i can be rude, from sun up to sun down.
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Again agreed. Granted those are the right things to do, but there should never be any forcing for one to do right thing if the wrong thing isn't violating another's rights.

are people so uneducated about rights, privileges, that i have to explain every detail, that i cannot use general terms, i am starting to shake my head, and feel sad at the situation in america.
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My point is to you that the general term that you are using is indicating the opposite of what you are trying to say. That is what I have been trying to drill into you over these last several exchanges. You are hurting your own argument because of it.

shrubnose said:
That's exactly what the Confederates (Who got their butts kicked in the U.S. Civil War.) thought.

Case closed.
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Wait, wait, wait......are you trying to say that just because they lost that the Confederates were wrong?!?!? So if the colonies had lost the war for their freedom would their ideals have been wrong too?

Kal'Stang said:
Then try it. ;) See how far you get. ;)
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Seriously? How is that any better a response than them telling us to try discriminating and seeing where it gets us?

shrubnose said:
I totally understand that you have a lot of time to waste.

Drone on.
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You have better things to waste your time on and you keep responding to him. Methinks you have to have the last word.

AlbqOwl said:
I think you need to get your eyes checked.
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Naw....he sees fine...he just won't admit to it being his pig.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
In the USA we consider it a civil right for all Americans to be served at establishments open to the public. Allowing discrimination would violate that right.
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No we don't. There are plenty of circumstances in which people may be denied services. You have no right to another man's property or labor. So what rights are violated? Given that service can and IS denied to patrons, that you do not have the right to the labor of others, what gives you the authority to use the guns of government to command the labor of others?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

maquiscat said:
Seriously? How is that any better a response than them telling us to try discriminating and seeing where it gets us?
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Meh, i'm tired of argueing. Sides, you can't really argueing with someone that doesn't believe people have rights unless the government grants you the privilege of having one.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Federalist said:
No, not all of America. Just laws that violate the ability of a person to control access to his own property.

But I have learned what to expect. You have shown yourself to be very happy to violate the person and property of your fellow man.
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You seem to hate America, its people and the government which they have chosen to both represent them and pass laws in their name. What sad misfortune did this to you?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

AliHajiSheik said:
You are demonstrating the moral certainty of a government employee. You deny that slaves had the right to assert freedom because the government at the time did not recognize their claim. That is the flaw of your claim and your second flaw is that you refuse to acknowledge it. Let's be factual, a right is only something you have if you can defend it. I don't have the expectation that government cannot make a mistake and sometimes it takes a bit of noise for government to recognize that, if someone felt strongly enough. As a former government employee, I don't think you can appreciate that. Pity.
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You make no sense. In your blind desire to attack me you ramble nonsense and gibberish.

If you do not have a right to exercise then you simply do not have that right. Period. Only a deluded mind wallowing in mental illness creates a contrary reality to the real one and inhabits that fantasy world.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
No we don't. There are plenty of circumstances in which people may be denied services. You have no right to another man's property or labor. So what rights are violated? Given that service can and IS denied to patrons, that you do not have the right to the labor of others, what gives you the authority to use the guns of government to command the labor of others?
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Our many state and federal civil rights laws say otherwise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

I have already previously explained to you what rights were violated. Did you not read? Perhaps the problem here is that you do NOT want people to have the right to be served in public accommodations regardless of race or nationality or gender or other factors and so you yourself have deemed in your belief system that such a right that is in American law is NOT a right in your mind or belief system?

And you know perfectly well that the peoples government has the right to enforce the law - even with guns if necessary. There is nothing new or shocking or radical about that.
 
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Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
Our many state and federal civil rights laws say otherwise.

Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have already previously explained to you what rights were violated. Did you not read? Perhaps the problem here is that you do NOT want people to have the right to be served in public accommodations regardless of race or nationality or gender or other factors and so you yourself have deemed in your belief system that such a right that is in American law is NOT a right in your mind or belief system?

And you know perfectly well that the peoples government has the right to enforce the law - even with guns if necessary. There is nothing new or shocking or radical about that.
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Oh yeah? So no one has been kicked out of an establishment then without violating law. No one has ever been refused service without violating law. Interesting. I wonder how far you take this aggression against the labor of others.

You did not explain what rights were violated, you just made a ridiculous blanket statement with no backing.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
You seem to hate America, its people and the government which they have chosen to both represent them and pass laws in their name. What sad misfortune did this to you?
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Nope. Love the American people, which is why I oppose crappy laws being imposed upon them. You speak of hate, but let's keep in mind that YOU are the one who wants to point a gun in your neighbors face and deny him the ability to control access to his property.

So do you own any property? Do you feel as if you ought to be the one who decides who is allowed on your property?
 
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Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

I think I have identified the problem. Haymarket isn't making any distinction between public and private property. But then many liberals/statists/leftists/progressives/political class types don't, so we should make allowances.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

AlbqOwl said:
I think I have identified the problem. Haymarket isn't making any distinction between public and private property. But then many liberals/statists/leftists/progressives/political class types don't, so we should make allowances.
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Haymarket believes that a man's labor is owned by the government and community.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
Haymarket believes that a man's labor is owned by the government and community.
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Not just his labor, but his body and all his property. If "the people's government" decides it wants you or your property, you're **** out of luck. Whatever "the people's government" does is right, by definition. Scary, scary collectivist claptrap.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Federalist said:
Yes, I have done so. And I've explained that my reason for such a stance is that I regard it as unjust to violate the body or property of your fellow man in order to coerce him to trade with someone against his will.
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And I supposed they remained your friend?

Mm-hmm...riiiiiight.

Here's something I learned that really surprised me: the more one tells the truth, the more one is able to discern the ring of truth when one hears it or sees it. It's by no means infallible, but it's surprisingly effective. The point being, you might be telling the truth...but it sure as heck doesn't look like it. However, there's enough possibility (remote though the possibility may be) that you might not be lying...and that's the only reason I'm not calling BS on your claim.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Glen Contrarian said:
Which is more important: the "right" to discriminate, or freedom from discrimination?

Remember, you can't have both. If a business refuses to serve someone because he's black, and he refuses to leave and the business calls the cops to enforce their "right"...it is at that moment that we have government-enforced racism.

Is that really what we want?
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As usual, you lefties dont even understand the terms you are using. Racism is in peoples heads. DISCRIMINATION is the act. The left is fine with discrimination, as an example we have affirmative action=public institutions discriminating base on skin color.

Its tragic that the left has become so orwellian and hive-minded that they dont even understand the topics they wish to discuss-but MAN do they have an opinion. :doh
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Kal'Stang said:
Aww, poor babies. You do realize that at one point in time some race or another has been enslaved. Including whites. Blacks do not hold a monopoly on being enslaved. Stop acting like they do.

Besides, this has nothing to do with slavery. Nor Jim Crow laws. As I said, blacks have just as much Right to discriminate as all other races.
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It has everything to do with it, guy - because every black man and woman who is discriminated against because of the color of their skin will think back to those days of slavery and Jim Crow - which wasn't really that long ago - and they will react in a way that you apparently won't allow yourself to expect.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Glen Contrarian said:
It has everything to do with it, guy - because every black man and woman who is discriminated against because of the color of their skin will think back to those days of slavery and Jim Crow - which wasn't really that long ago - and they will react in a way that you apparently won't allow yourself to expect.
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I just LOVE how you talk for people that you don't even know.
 
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