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Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

  • Total voters
    93
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
Obviously, you didn't bother reading my last post.
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you stated " i am not there for those purposes".....all i have done is make a simple statement about rights .................which you push aside and don't address........do you say...."yes i understand i dont have an exercisable right on your property" .........NO. you shug it off, and act like you don't see it.

again, you rabbitcaebannog cannot come on to my property and exercise any right, make any demands on me, apply force to me to do what YOU what done, ... for any reason at all.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
you stated " i am not there for those purposes".....all i have done is make a simple statement about rights .................which you push aside and don't address........do you say...."yes i understand i dont have an exercisable right on your property" .........NO. you shug it off, and act like you don't see it.

again, you rabbitcaebannog cannot come on to my property and exercise any right, make any demands on me, apply force to me to do what YOU what done, ... for any reason at all.
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Let me cut and paste some more:
Only you have the power to discriminate and refuse my service. There is most definitely a structure of power that does not exist at all with government services since the government cannot discriminate. As of now, neither can a private owner. If groups like Cato succeed in their zeal to overthrow Civil Rights Law they may find themselves in a situation that may make it harder to privatize all things that exist in the name of freedom of choice. They will have to be called out on their blatant lies.
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Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
Let me cut and paste some more:
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do you rabbitcaebannog accept the fact, you cannot exercise anyone of your rights.......on my property?


emotionalism-----If groups like Cato succeed in their zeal to overthrow Civil Rights Law they may find themselves in a situation that may make it harder to privatize all things that exist in the name of freedom of choice. They will have to be called out on their blatant lies.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

AlbqOwl said:
Let me qualify my remarks to follow with my 100% honest opinion that the gay person should be seated and treated no differently than any other patron; I would verbally tell the owner off and walk out of any establishment who would refuse to seat him; and I don't believe there is any moral justification for discriminating against him in that way.

But by what criteria do we dictate to any person who he must or must not serve with a business he owns, that he took all the risks to open and finance, that he has put in his time, blood, sweat, and tears to make a success? What did that gay person (or anybody else) contribute to that success that entitles them to demand service from that proprietor?
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Let me condense your last paragraph: "Why can't we discriminate against gays?"

It's the same old story - you care less about people being free from discrimination than you do your 'right' to discriminate.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Glen Contrarian said:
Let me condense your last paragraph: "Why can't we discriminate against gays?"

It's the same old story - you care less about people being free from discrimination than you do your 'right' to discriminate.
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so what your saying is, people should be free of bad behavior by other people...AT the expense, of those other peoples....RIGHTS.........so in your mind.......RIGHTS COME SECOND....even though the constitution puts them FIRST.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
do you rabbitcaebannog accept the fact, you cannot exercise anyone of your rights.......on my property?


emotionalism-----If groups like Cato succeed in their zeal to overthrow Civil Rights Law they may find themselves in a situation that may make it harder to privatize all things that exist in the name of freedom of choice. They will have to be called out on their blatant lies.
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Nah, just truth.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Kal'Stang said:
There is no right to not be discriminated against. If there was then you would not be able to discriminate in who you are friends with and who you cannot be friends with. The government would decide who your friends are.
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In YOUR world, there is no right to not be discriminated against. But in the world that MOST Americans live in, we DO have a right to be free from discrimination. If you want to live somewhere that you can discriminate against others as you will, there's plenty of third-world nations where that's the norm.

And your 'friends' claims are laughable - at NO point is there any kind of requirement that Thou Shalt Be Friends With Person X. That's just you bringing up yet another strawman.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Kal'Stang said:
Bold: Didn't I already say that the cops violated that guys rights? How can I not be getting that when I agreed that they violated his rights? As for what rights they violated, I don't recall them being charged with violating "the black guys right to not be discriminated against". Could you point it out to me please?

I notice that once again you (and others) have refused to show proof that people have a right to not be discriminated against.
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Again, in YOUR mind there's no such right...but in the minds of MOST Americans - and particularly in the minds of all those who fought for so long to be FREE from discrimination - there IS such a right...and they WILL fight for it, by any means necessary.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Glen Contrarian said:
In YOUR world, there is no right to not be discriminated against. But in the world that MOST Americans live in, we DO have a right to be free from discrimination. If you want to live somewhere that you can discriminate against others as you will, there's plenty of third-world nations where that's the norm.

And your 'friends' claims are laughable - at NO point is there any kind of requirement that Thou Shalt Be Friends With Person X. That's just you bringing up yet another strawman.
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you sure do have a right...[ a civil right]........that government will not discriminate against you.....that however does not apply to a citizen.....
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Glen Contrarian said:
Make sure you tell all your minority friends about what you think about how you have a "right" to discriminate, how freedom from discrimination means "violating the body and property of your fellow man", okay? Make sure you tell all of them that, y'hear?
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They all know that I respect them and that I don't think I have the right to violate their body or property to coerce them to trade with someone against their will.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
so what your saying is, people should be free of bad behavior by other people...AT the expense, of those other peoples....RIGHTS.........so in your mind.......RIGHTS COME SECOND....even though the constitution puts them FIRST.
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Problem is, you and your fellows don't realize that it is also a BASIC RIGHT to not be discriminated against. You cannot claim that such is unconstitutional because when the Constitution was written, slavery was the norm - the idea of equality for anyone who wasn't a propertied white male was ludicrous. Fortunately, the Founding Fathers knew that changes would come, and that they had to set up the Constitution and our nation's laws in such a way that they could adapt to changing conditions.

I know, I know, you'll never agree with that...but that's okay, because MOST Americans do...and MOST Americans will make sure it stays that way.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
deflect!
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No, I'm not. It was once said that giving power to unaccountable private industry is much like a tyranny in the sense the public has zero, nada, zip role in everything. You keep reinforcing how correct this point is, so I will thank you for that. I will also save many of these points being made by you and the Cato Institute for future reference. This has been a very constructive debate.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
you sure do have a right...[ a civil right]........that government will not discriminate against you.....that however does not apply to a citizen.....
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Okay, guy, go ahead then - kick blacks out of your business and tell them that it's your civil right to not serve blacks in your business if you don't want to...and watch what happens.

You won't even get any sympathy from Hannity or O'Reilly, much less from those of us on the left. You'd get less sympathy than the "Sovereign Citizen" wackos get. But don't let all that stop you, now - just go on and follow up in real life with what you're writing down here, y'hear?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Federalist said:
They all know that I respect them and that I don't think I have the right to violate their body or property to coerce them to trade with someone against their will.
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Suuuuuure they do. All your minority friends know that you support someone's "right" to discriminate against others because of their color/ethnicity/religion/sexual orientation...and they're all perfectly fine with that.

Mm-hmm...riiiiiiiight.

What's amazing is that you're actually expecting anyone here (except for maybe a few people who think just like you do) to buy that line you just tried to hand me.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Glen Contrarian said:
Let me condense your last paragraph: "Why can't we discriminate against gays?"

It's the same old story - you care less about people being free from discrimination than you do your 'right' to discriminate.
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I suppose I'm not surprised that's what you took from my post. Or that you refuse to answer the question. And please understand that due to my self imposed rule not to engage in exercises of futility, I won't expend any more effort to explain. Do have a nice day.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
No, I'm not. It was once said that giving power to unaccountable private industry is much like a tyranny in the sense the public has zero, nada, zip role in everything. You keep reinforcing how correct this point is, so I will thank you for that. I will also save many of these points being made by you and the Cato Institute for future reference. This has been a very constructive debate.
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your example about tyranny is for government, a business does not have power of the life's of the people, your error was [private] i always speak about government tyranny.....like government forced coercion..
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Glen Contrarian said:
Suuuuuure they do. All your minority friends know that you support someone's "right" to discriminate against others because of their color/ethnicity/religion/sexual orientation...and they're all perfectly fine with that.

Mm-hmm...riiiiiiiight.

What's amazing is that you're actually expecting anyone here (except for maybe a few people who think just like you do) to buy that line you just tried to hand me.
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Yes, they know that I don't think I have the right to initiate violence against them or anyone else.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Glen Contrarian said:
Of course that's what you would say...because in TD world, everything is magically hunky-dory for blacks, and it would be unthinkable that they would react violently government-approved racism because their parents remember life under Jim Crow....
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you are the one who seems to think that blacks are less able to control their emotions than whites.
the government not interfering with what private businesses do is hardly government approved racism

you need to learn what the terms mean
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Glen Contrarian said:
Okay, guy, go ahead then - kick blacks out of your business and tell them that it's your civil right to not serve blacks in your business if you don't want to...and watch what happens.

You won't even get any sympathy from Hannity or O'Reilly, much less from those of us on the left. You'd get less sympathy than the "Sovereign Citizen" wackos get. But don't let all that stop you, now - just go on and follow up in real life with what you're writing down here, y'hear?
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my right to discriminate is not a civil right, its a natural right, civil rights are created by governments.....you cannot use a government created right as a tool of force on another citizen, the rest of your argument is an emotional rant.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
your example about tyranny is for government, a business does not have power of the life's of the people, your error was [private] i always speak about government tyranny.....like government forced coercion..
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Um, yeah they do have plenty of power in a person's life. We already know if you work for any at will company you can be fired for doing anything they don't like in your private life off the clock. Now the icing on the cake is you telling me that they can decide if people can get resources or not based on their decision to do business with you. You can't get much more authoritarian in nature. They are the decider in all things privatized. At least government services are held accountable by the public and the government can't deny people services based on discrimination. If you are a taxpayer you have sway. Personally, I'm not for authoritarian rule in my life unless for safety reason.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
Um, yeah they do have plenty of power in a person's life. We already know if you work for any at will company you can be fired for doing anything they don't like in your private life off the clock.
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you cannot do anything which on the internet or public, which makes the company you work for look bad, they can fire you.

rabbitcaebannog said:
Now the icing on the cake is you telling me that they can decide if people can get resources or not based on their decision to do business with you.
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resources?.....they are private property which you believe you can force a person to turn over to you.

rabbitcaebannog said:
You can't get much more authoritarian in nature. They are the decider in all things privatized. At least government services are held accountable by the public and the government can't deny people services based on discrimination. If you are a taxpayer you have sway. Personally, I'm not for authoritarian rule in my life unless for safety reason.
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and average citizen owning a business, cannot be authoritarian.....because he was not control over you and your actions in your life........only on his own property.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
Personally, I'm not for authoritarian rule in my life unless for safety reason.
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Speaking of being authoritarian, do you feel as if you have a right to violate the body or property of your fellow man in order to coerce him to trade with someone against his will?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
you cannot do anything which on the internet or public, which makes the company you work for look bad, they can fire you.



resources?.....they are private property which you believe you can force a person to turn over to you.



and average citizen owning a business, cannot be authoritarian.....because he was not control over you and your actions in your life........only on his own property.
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They can also fire you if you are involved in political activities they don't agree with, if you smoke, start to gain weight, and I can't think of one thing that is off limits to them even on your own personal time. Oh, and thank you for bringing up internet and social media. The list is endless. And, you keep reinforcing my resource argument so thanks. As I illustrated they most certainly can control your actions in life and not just limited to his property. It's called authoritarian.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Federalist said:
Speaking of being authoritarian, do you feel as if you have a right to violate the body or property of your fellow man in order to coerce him to trade with someone against his will?
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His will to deny business is authoritarian so fight fire with fire:2razz:
 
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