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Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

  • Total voters
    93
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
That does not necessarily create an all-inclusive list of rights. I'm sure you can understand this.
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some of the founders didn't want any rights listed, because they state it would limit rights to what is on paper, however that is why the 9th was created to cover rights which are not listed.

I have A RIGHT TO WALK DOWN THE STREET AND WHISTLE IF I WISH...ITS A RIGHT.......BUT IT HAS NEVER BEEN BROUGHT BEFORE THE COURT BEFORE, BECUASE NO ONE IS STUPID ENOUGH TO CHALLEGE THAT RIGHT.

we have many rights, however when exercising an action comes into question it is turned over to the court, to decide whether its a right or not.

the court has never ruled anyone has the right to be served, and they never will.........because to do some would make one person subservient to another.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
Not at all. No one is forcing anyone to open a public business. If someone does open a public business, then it must actually be open to the public.
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That is a different argument. In that case anyone that is looking to open a business must acquire a business license and once acquired must follow certain rules that are open to change at any point in time from the government. In effect, when the government requires someone to acquire a business license they are not only requiring people take action to take part in their rights, which by itself is a right violation, but are forcing individuals to forfeit their right to operate their business in the way they desire.

Offering people a choice on how much freedom they will have is rather stupid argument on your part.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
some of the founders didn't want any rights listed, because they state it would limit rights to what is on paper, however that is why the 9th was created to cover rights which are not listed.

I have A RIGHT TO WALK DOWN THE STREET AND WHISTLE IF I WISH...ITS A RIGHT.......BUT IT HAS NEVER BEEN BROUGHT BEFORE THE COURT BEFORE, BECUASE NO ONE IS STUPID ENOUGH TO CHALLEGE THAT RIGHT.

we have many rights, however when exercising an action comes into question it is turned over to the court, to decide whether its a right or not.

the court has never ruled anyone has the right to be served, and they never will.........because to do some would make one person subservient to another.
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If one opens a public business, one is volunteering to be subservient to the public. What you're doing is no different than arguing for civilian rights in the military. Public business is optional, no one is forced.


Look, if you'll accept that your demand for the enumeration of rights in the Constitution is BS, and that the USSC does not create rights, then I will give you what you're looking for. Ok?

Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

I think as a moral issue, no person should be refused service just because of his/her race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation etc. UNLESS those conditions require participation by the proprietor in a way that the proprietor deems unacceptable or unreasonable. But the choice should be left with each individual person because the alternative is to give the state the right to dictate morality and social customs to the people.

When I run a business, I want the right to impose an appropriate dress code, to order people who demonstrate unacceptable language or other behavior out of my place of business, to expect parents to control their children, and to restrict what forms of advertising or promotion take place on my premises. Those are all forms of discrimination that I believe to be my unalienable right to exercise with impunity. And it is the unalienable right of any person to dislike my policies and/or restrictions and/or attitudes/expectations and to not do business with me. That is also a form of discrimination.

If we do not have control over our property, our persons, our choices, our preferences in our own space, we have no real rights at all.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Henrin said:
That is a different argument. In that case anyone that is looking to open a business must acquire a business license and once acquired must follow certain rules that are open to change at any point in time from the government. In effect, when the government requires someone to acquire a business license they are not only requiring people take action to take part in their rights, which by itself is a right violation, but are forcing individuals to forfeit their right to operate their business in the way they desire.

Offering people a choice on how much freedom they will have is rather stupid argument on your part.
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So now you're arguing for anarchy in the public sphere? I guess that's a step up from your previous ridiculous claims.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
Look, if you'll accept that you demand for the enumeration of the right in the Constitution is BS. And that the USSC does not create rights, then I will give you what you're looking for. Ok?

Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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I already told you the court does not create a right.....it never has.

courts do not make rights just as the congress does not, rights are recognized by the courts as a existing rights, before the constitution was ever created.

civil rights...are not rights, they are privileges created by the federal government, because government creates no rights.

what government is doing is creating a privilege for a person on the property of a business owner...which is unconstitutional...government cannot give people privileges on property which is not theirs.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
what government is doing is creating a privilege for a person on the property of a business owner...which is unconstitutional...government cannot give people privileges on property which is not theirs.
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False. The government is protecting equal rights on property that a business owner has volunteered to make public. In volunteering to make his property open to the public, equal protection for the public is entirely reasonable.

If one wants to keep their property private, they are free to do so. No one is forcing anyone.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
I have asked this many times and still I get no answer.


what right of the buyer is being violated by the seller..........which is recognized by the USSC?

a buyer has NO exercisable rights on another persons property.
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The right to equal access to products and services, wherein the buyer is not harming either the seller or the seller's business.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
So now you're arguing for anarchy in the public sphere? I guess that's a step up from your previous ridiculous claims.
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No, I'm arguing that if you are running way from the argument that the law is in violation of peoples rights, it does you no favors to argue that they signed a business license and therefore no human right violation occurred. Requiring people take action to practice their rights is a right violation, so yes, required licensing of any sort is a right violation.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
easy, because a woman claims........".right to property, her body, to have an abortion"..............which abortion is offensive to other people

if the left is going to be for a woman having the ability to do with her body [property] because its hers and preform an action which is offensive to some people.

then my business is my property, and I have a right to it, whether you find it offensive or not.
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Control of ones bodily reproductive abilities is based simply on the fact that it is your own body. It has NOTHING to do with who it might offend or who might object.

Being a bigot and refusing public accommodations to a citizen has nothing whatsoever to do with that. Lots of things people do might be offensive to others. We don't have laws against many of the.

If your business is open to the public then you have to serve the public. It has nothing to do with what offends you or me.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Henrin said:
No, I'm arguing that if you are running way from the argument that the law is in violation of peoples rights, it does you no favors to argue that they signed a business license and therefore no human right violation occurred. Requiring people take action to practice their rights is a right violation, so yes, required licensing of any sort is a right violation.
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Anarchism is so trite.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
False. The government is protecting equal rights on property that a business owner has volunteered to make PUBLIC. In volunteering to make his property open to the public, equal protection for the public is entirely reasonable.
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you are equal under the law, which government creates, so they [government must treat you equally].........a business owner does not create law to be applied unequally, ...so why do business owners have to apply equality to you, when the constutution, concerning equality under the law does not apply to the people?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Summerwind said:
The right to equal access to products and services, wherein the buyer is not harming either the seller or the seller's business.
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where is this right recognized by the constitution or the court?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
you are equal under the law, which government creates, so they [government must treat you equally].........a business owner does not create law to be applied unequally, ...so why do business owners have to apply equality to you, when the constutution, concerning equality under the law does not apply to the people?
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Look, you made stupid arguments ("show me the right in the Constitution!") and I corrected you. Then, I was kind enough to hand you what you were fishing for.

If you cannot understand the concept of public business, and responsibilities therein, I cannot do anything further for you.

Good day.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
Control of ones bodily reproductive abilities is based simply on the fact that it is your own body. It has NOTHING to do with who it might offend or who might object.

Being a bigot and refusing public accommodations to a citizen has nothing whatsoever to do with that. Lots of things people do might be offensive to others. We don't have laws against many of the.

If your business is open to the public then you have to serve the public. It has nothing to do with what offends you or me.
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as stated property is property.........everything about you is property

your body, your labor, the things you obtain from that labor, your words, and ideas.

if a person has a right to property, it cover all property, not only the property you see fit.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
Look, you made stupid arguments ("show me the right in the Constitution!") and I corrected you. Then, I was kind enough to hand you what you were fishing for.

If you cannot understand the concept of public business, and responsibilities therein, I cannot do anything further for you.

Good day.
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you showed nothing, the civil rights act is not constitutional law, it is not rights....you yourself said government does not create a right...........so how can the civil rights act of 64 create rights for the people to be violated?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
Anarchism is so trite.
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Leaning on the government to resolve your problems is what simpletons do.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Henrin said:
Leaning on the government to resolve your problems is what simpletons do.
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Like I'm the simpleton here. hahaha

Go study your Websters, you might be able to get one college credit for it.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Henrin said:
Leaning on the government to resolve your problems is what simpletons do.
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I do not understand how people do not understand the concept of liberty..........


liberty is being able to do things other people do not like!

if I did everything ,every other person liked, I would not need liberty at all!



what is free speech?..............it is speech you disagree with....funny how people don't understand this fact
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
I do not understand how people do not understand the concept of liberty..........

liberty is being able to do things other people do not like!
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You mean like freedom of movement in the public sphere?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
You mean like freedom of movement in the public sphere?
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you don't have FREEOM OF MOVEMENT IN MY BUSINESS. ..THAT WOULD MEAN YOU COULD GO ANYWHERE IN MY BUSINESS.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

I usually aint into all this feel goody **** but I think there might be something wrong with a society that even needs protected classes. I hope everyone is in at least one.
AGENT J said:
what are these protected classes i here so much about please list them. Then give me an example of a person who isnt in one because I cant think of any.
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Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
you don't have FREEOM OF MOVEMENT IN MY BUSINESS. ..THAT WOULD MEAN YOU COULD GO ANYWHERE IN MY BUSINESS.
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If you choose to make your business public, then it must be open to the public.

This is really not difficult to understand. Why are you freaking out?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
You mean like freedom of movement in the public sphere?
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All citizens should have freedom of movement on publicly owned property. However, the owner of private property should have the right to determine who has access to his privately owned property.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
If you choose to make your business public, then it must be open to the public.

This is really not difficult to understand. Why are you freaking out?
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well maybe because people do not understand liberty, and think because one person is offended, this gives them just cause to take away right to property........

your augment is based on emotional content, not rights and the protection of them.
 
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