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Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

  • Total voters
    93
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
The reason some do not care about freedom from unjust discrimination is they're white and suffer no such threat on a societal level. The world ends at their nose.
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Although I agree with your premise, your statement is not wholly true.

I myself have been discriminated against; in South Miami for not being Latino, in NYC for not being - black/Italian/Jewish/a northerner. And many other instances as well.

Discrimination has no place in our society when it comes to social interaction related to commerce or public services. Each of us has the right to freedom of association which also means non-association, but that is in our private lives, not in public interactions.

JMHO
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
No, if he decides he wants to keep it and not sell it he doesn't have to put it out for sale.
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What if he thinks it looks pretty?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
Oh, the ones you like?
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I don't like the vast majority of laws. But those constructed to protect and proliferate the rights and liberties of the individual are the just ones.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
That is a strawman.
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'Tis not, I'm afraid. It's apples to apples. Government takes land, but gives money. It's your very argument in fact. You're not "taking" property because you're giving money.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
What?
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What if it's put out because he likes how it looks, but doesn't want to sell it. He'll sell you his other cupcakes if you want.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
I don't like the vast majority of laws. But those constructed to protect and proliferate the rights and liberties of the individual are the just ones.
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Civil liberties protect rights of people.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
What if it's put out because he likes how it looks, but doesn't want to sell it. He'll sell you his other cupcakes if you want.
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Great.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
'Tis not, I'm afraid. It's apples to apples. Government takes land, but gives money. It's your very argument in fact. You're not "taking" property because you're giving money.
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No, different argument. You are not agreeing to give your land away like a store owner is agreeing to sell his goods.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Stupid double posts all over the place today.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
No, different argument. You are not agreeing to give your land away like a store owner is agreeing to sell his goods.
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The store owner is not agreeing to sell any and all of his goods to anyone who wanders in. They reserve right to refuse service. It's only a different argument once you've assumed ownership of another's property and labor.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
The store owner is not agreeing to sell any and all of his goods to anyone who wanders in. They reserve right to refuse service.
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Not the same argument. Government claiming land when a person doesn't want to sell land is not the same as a person selling products because he does that as a business.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Summerwind said:
No it's nothing akin to slavery. You're not being harmed. You get the same pay as any other person would pay for the same service or product. Slaves were harmed and not paid. You are simply being required to not stop the flow of the economy unless there is potential harm to you or your business. Since there is none, you can't. For them to have to get the product of service elsewhere is a hardship, even if it's a tiny hardship in some cases, it's a huge hardship in others, so it's best to draw the line cleanly where it is at.

If you want to discriminate, have a private, by appointment only business.
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Lots of words and yet no understanding of slavery to be found. Do you disagree with the following definition of slavery?

Slavery- a person who labors under coercion to satisfy another's desires.

Yes or no?

Of course, in chattel slavery people are seen as the property of someone else, but that is not a necessary condition of slavery.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
Civil liberties protect rights of people.
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civil rights are privileges, ........they are not natural rights, they are legal rights.

legal rights, do not override the natural rights of people which are endowed by the creator to man, ...legal rights are created by man.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
civil rights are privileges, ........they are not natural rights, they are legal rights.

legal rights, do not override the natural rights of people which are endowed to man, ...legal rights are created by man.
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What if someone had a natural right to piss in your yard? You have a legal right not to allow them.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
Not the same argument. Government claiming land when a person doesn't want to sell land is not the same as a person selling products because he does that as a business.
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It's pretty much exactly the same. It's a property owner not wanting to sell the property but being forced to by the guns of government. You just don't want to see it that way because you are trying to set up a specific outcome.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
It's pretty much exactly the same. It's a property owner not wanting to sell the property but being forced to by the guns of government. You just don't want to see it that way because you are trying to set up a specific outcome.
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No, not true. I could be against government trying to take someone's land away but against a merchant discriminating against a buyer.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
What if someone had a natural right to piss in your yard? You have a legal right not to allow them.
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not possible....your yard is your property....its a natural right [right to property].....no one can exercise a right on another persons property lawfully, unless you get permission from the owner
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Summerwind said:
If you are open to the general public, you are a public business. If you are a government entity, you are not a public business, as you are not a business, you are the government.
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Maybe a better way to put this would be to say that a business is granted a license by the government to operate within the public sphere, or more accurately within and as a part of our society. By being granted and accepting the license, you are agreeing to offer your services or products to anyone in our society that has the means to remunerate you. This is only limited in certain instances by other external laws, none of which have a bearing on race, creed, color or sex. For instance, you have to require a prescription to sell certain medication, you cannot sell a weapon to a felon and you cannot sell cigarettes to underage children.

Without the license to operate as a business, commerce is limited or not allowed.

We as a people have determined that it is in the best interest of our society to restrict business/commerce to those that agree to follow certain rules. Among those rules are tax laws, anti-discrimination laws in hiring, paying and promotion of employees as offering of services or products for sale and many, many others.

If a person doesn't want to follow the laws of our society, then they can attempt to change the laws by legal means, or by electing like minded people to government to change the law through legislation.

There are a number of examples of the legal means in recent SCOTUS rulings, either affirming or changing these laws.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
not possible....your yard is your property....its a natural right [right to property].....no one can exercise a right on another persons property lawfully, unless you get permission from the owner
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Um, property is a man made right.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
No, not true. I could be against government trying to take someone's land away but against a merchant discriminating against a buyer.
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You are avoiding the question of whether you feel you have the right to violate the person or property of one your neighbor in order to force him to do business with someone against his will?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Beaudreaux said:
Maybe a better way to put this would be to say that a business is granted a license by the government to operate within the public sphere, or more accurately within and as a part of our society.
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Do you feel as if you have the right to violate the person or property of your neighbor in order to prevent him from operating a business?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
Um, property is a man made right.
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no its a natural right.

i have a right to create property for myself, or obtain property from others.

are you saying when Edison invented the light blub, it was not his property, but a right to it granted by the government?
 
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