• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do The Rich Pay Too Much Federal Income Taxes

Do The Rich Pay Too Much Income Taxes


  • Total voters
    90
No but the upper middle class sure as hell do...

How much is enough? 0.000000001%? 0.1%? 1%? 10%? 20%? 50%? 75%? 90%? 98%?

I don't think it really matters how low or high taxes are. Americans will always hate taxes because of our history as a nation. Europeans don't act as stupid about taxes as we do. They categorize taxes as something that they buy like buying a donut or something. They just purchase their share of government services via taxation.

Americans may never see taxes this way. They always consider it a completely loss. This has a lot to do with our history with England and King George.
 
I don't know anyone who voluntarily goes to work and then takes their paycheck and gives it to random strangers.

You need to start hanging out with a better crowd. You have been hanging out with a lot of selfish a**holes. Lots of people give their money to random strangers. Have you ever heard of non-profit organizations or charities or good people that love other humans?

You really need better friends. Your friends are bastards.
 
I have trouble understanding where people get off thinking that this is some new atrocity. Taxes have existed since the beginning of stratified civilization.

You have to be familiar with American history. We were founded on the concept of hating taxes and hating government mandated religion.
 
do you believe the poor enjoy being poor and laugh at the rich paying taxes?

Sometimes they do laugh at the rich paying taxes, just f*** with them. In reality that poor person would probably be willing to switch tax brackets with the rich person but only if the rich person would switch incomes.

Hint: The people who complain about the unfairness of taxes on the rich aren't rich. I don't know about you but I find that hillarious.
 
You know what's offensive? Your continual habit of rhetorical sleight of hand. People understand the need to pay taxes for roads, policing, courts, national defense, border control, and such and they object to paying taxes so that the incomes of strangers can be supplemented. So when you come off all innocent-like and point to taxes being in existence for a long time to pay for PUBLIC GOODS, then you're insulting everyone here.

There is no reason to tax me to pay for your hemorrhoid operation. You getting your hemorrhoids fixed benefits ONLY YOU, not the community. For the government to be so intrusive as to compel people to pay for you hemorrhoid operation is the equivalent of government compelling people to have sex.

Are you complaining about taxes being too high? or are you complaining about the welfare system? They are completely seperate things.
 
How much is enough? 0.000000001%? 0.1%? 1%? 10%? 20%? 50%? 75%? 90%? 98%?

I don't think it really matters how low or high taxes are. Americans will always hate taxes because of our history as a nation. Europeans don't act as stupid about taxes as we do. They categorize taxes as something that they buy like buying a donut or something. They just purchase their share of government services via taxation.

Americans may never see taxes this way. They always consider it a completely loss. This has a lot to do with our history with England and King George.

That's the problem, too many of those paying their taxes aren't receiving their share of government services. I unlike many who'd like to put me in that box am not some right wing fringe crazy boy. Truth be told I believe in a UHC and Education for all paid for via taxation. Along with various other forms of services provided, following a Nordic model like approach. However, this is a pipe dream, so I will fight against taxation because I don't like how that revenue currently is being spent.

It isn't about greed it is about need and seeing that those who do, get it.
 
You need to start hanging out with a better crowd. You have been hanging out with a lot of selfish a**holes. Lots of people give their money to random strangers. Have you ever heard of non-profit organizations or charities or good people that love other humans?

You really need better friends. Your friends are bastards.

I give significant amounts to charity and I even volunteer to go do charitable work overseas to help some of the charities I support financially. I though choose which charities and people I want to aid, I don't just randomly hand out my money to people on the street and I most certainly don't give money to people I disapprove of nor those who I despise. I'm still maintaining control of how my charitable contributions are allocated.
 
No, if you make enough money to be in the highest tax bracket, you have a larger responsibility to the state. You owe your financial success in part to the nation we live in which allows you to prosper. That and tax dollars building schools, libraries, and roads gives other citizens the ability to prosper, bolstering the economy of the nation as a whole.

what crap. its an opinion justifying income redistribution. People who prosper help the state, those who don't are a drag on the state. your attitude is like claiming the guy who graduates first in his HS class ought to pay more in tuition than the bottom quarter of retards, class cutters and dunces
 
I think everybody pays too much taxes.

I disagree. The people who pay no income taxes don't get proper feedback as to the cost of government so they continue to demand more and more government since others have to pay for it
 
Are you complaining about taxes being too high? or are you complaining about the welfare system? They are completely seperate things.

I'll tell you what. I'm prepared to make a bargain. Lots of socialists pine for the days of Eisenhower and the 91% top marginal tax rate. I'm 100% willing to go back to that tax rate so long as leftists engineer it so that the nation of today is transformed into the US that we had in the mid-50s.
 
Rob everyone's paycheck? Come on. Taxes are taxes, we all have to pay them, it is the price of living in a great country. A flat tax is ridiculous. Someone who makes 400k a year should not pay the same rate as someone who is hovering around the poverty line.


why not-in fact you should pay for what you get

I don't pay more for a cheeseburger than you do even though I am a multi millionaire. Why should I pay 1000 times more for the same government service than you do?
 
If that is true it is because you are spending your money on other things. I can afford an accountant and an attorney and I am far from being in the top bracket. Perhaps because I don't pay a huge mortgage, don't have lots of kids in private school, don't have servants, gardeners, nannies, don't support a stay at home wife, don't make payments on a new car, etc.

When rich people claim to be harmed because of high taxes (when they aren't lying) it is because they foolishly committed themselves to ongoing luxury expenses.

How clairvoyant of you.

My wife works. My kids went to public school. I don't have servants (that one made me laugh). Or any of the other BS you and your type assume a person like me has.

What I do have is a company, that is a Sub S Corporation, and which it's income is taxed to me directly as an individual.

What I also have are employees, that their families rely on my not paying for luxuries like you have such as having a tax attorney or accountant or investment adviser. My investment is my company and the employees that I support with the income this company generates. I do my own books. I make sure that I can cover my payroll, and any other costs that my employees need, since I own a consulting firm, and the only asset we have is our people and their knowledge.

I'm not alone in this position either. Many of my customers are in the same position. Most small businesses are either Sub S, like me, or LLC's that pay their taxes through their owners personal tax returns.

Something forgotten by the people that want to "TAX THE RICH" when they have no idea how to define "rich."

My money is in the bank, mostly in the accounts of my employees. What is left in my account, has to be conserved to maintain job security for my employees. When hard times hit and the income slows down, the payroll still has to made, expenses still have to paid, and the benefits packages for my employees still has to be maintained. However, at the end of the year, anything that's in the company account is considered profit and hence income to me on my tax return; even though I can't touch it, to pay for a tax attorney or accountant or investment adviser.

Maybe you would like to come to my office tomorrow morning and let my employees know I should lay them off so I can take that money and hide it by hiring your tax attorney and accountant.

Oh, and my truck is a 2004, with over 200k on the odometer.

You may want to ask more questions before you assume you know what your talking about.
 
The tax rates don't reflect what rich people actually pay. The rich can afford attorneys and accountants and structure their finances to avoid or delay taxes. Also, many of the rich are wealthy, but don't have a high income. If and when rich people start leaving the country to avoid taxes then I would think it may be time to lower the tax rate.

yet even with that, the top 5% pay more FIT than the rest of the country combined.
 
For the same reason some religions have tithes. The community as a whole dictates that a percentage is more fair than a set number. It is unfair that the poor pay the same amount as the rich when it is more detrimental to them to pay the fee.

its unfair that I pay far more for the same benefit that a poor person gets

your concept of fairness is one of many. but mine is more objective

if you receive the same value as I do, you should pay the same amount for it

same with cars, pantyhose, cheeseburgers and movie tickets
 
CBO Report Shows Increasing Redistribution in the Tax Code Despite No Long-term Trend in Income Inequality

graph-1.png




The U.S. relative to other nations:

pic_agenda_041514_taxes.jpg
 
why not-in fact you should pay for what you get

I don't pay more for a cheeseburger than you do even though I am a multi millionaire. Why should I pay 1000 times more for the same government service than you do?

We have a democratic-republic. If the government only taxed the masses, the elected officials would be voted out. Taxing a smaller group of people is an inevitability with our form of government. Once the rich become the majority, they will not get taxed as inequitable. Besides, the rich are busy making money. The poor are busy doing nothing. You don't want a lot of poor people that are pissed off. That could lead to riots and insurrection. It is better to piss off the civilized minority than the uncivilized majority.

What is your proposed solution to the "problem"? There isn't a solution. Why do you enjoy crying about a supposed problem that will never be fixed? Why? Does it make you feel superior to others? or do you really think that there is a solution to the inequity of taxes between "the poor"(whatever that means) and "the rich"(whatever that means)?
 
And by the way, the poor don't usually have the same societal resources as the wealthy. Where you live makes a big difference. Don't believe me, go into a region with housing projects and tell me they have equal societal resources as someone from Malibu

more crap

the police spend far more time in poor neighborhoods for starters
 
When low income people have a significant expense such as taxes it can interfere with their ability to purchase basic necessities, like medical care, food, clothing etc, When high income people have a significant expense such as taxes it will not interfere with their ability to purchase basic necessities, it only interferes with their ability to purchase a yacht or a summer home. Higher taxes have much less impact on the quality of life and health of the rich. That is why progressive taxes are fair and appropriate.

ah more whine about the rich nonsense

when the poor have to pay taxes, they don't tend to be as quick to demand more and more government
 
Yes, they are. And, who defines "rich." Anyone that makes less than the next guy?

Let's look at it this way: if your standing in line to buy something in a store, does the guy behind you have the right to go through your pockets and look at your checkbook to see if you have more money then them, and if you do, take some to pay for their stuff? Do you have the right to do it to the guy in front of you?

The answer to both is NO.

And no one has the right to have the government do it for them.

Liberty and freedom are still something that should mean something in this country.



Reg: They've bled us white, the bastards. They've taken everything we had, not just from us, from our fathers and from our fathers' fathers.

Stan: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers.

Reg: Yes.

Stan: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers' fathers.

Reg: All right, Stan. Don't labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return?

Xerxes: The aqueduct.

Reg: Oh yeah, yeah they gave us that. Yeah. That's true.

Masked Activist: And the sanitation!

............[later after several other benefits mentioned]

Stan: And it's safe to walk in the streets at night now.

Francis: Yes, they certainly know how to keep order... (general nodding)... let's face it, they're the only ones who could in a place like this. (more general murmurs of agreement)

Reg: All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?



Monty Python http://www.epicure.demon.co.uk/whattheromans.html
 
Last edited:
Well lets just acknowledge that there is a precedent for graduated income tax.

Also, the government isn't forcing you to work

Also, really? the government forcing people to have sex? I can understand if you are passionate on the issue we are discussing, but you might want to take a step backwards to appreciate how stupid of a statement that is. revel in it.

this country's history has had more years without a graduated income tax so the precedent is a fail
 
What is left in my account, has to be conserved to maintain job security for my employees.

Why?

Beaudreaux said:
When hard times hit and the income slows down, the payroll still has to made, expenses still have to paid, and the benefits packages for my employees still has to be maintained.

Who says? Why can't you just close down your business when that happens?

Beaudreaux said:
However, at the end of the year, anything that's in the company account is considered profit and hence income to me on my tax return; even though I can't touch it,

I do believe that.

Beaudreaux said:
Maybe you would like to come to my office tomorrow morning and let my employees know I should lay them off so I can take that money and hide it by hiring your tax attorney and accountant.

It looks like you are making your own decision. Nobody mandates that you prioritize in this manner. You are free to fire all of your employees. Something tells me that you would be f***ed if you did that. :roll: How stupid do you think we are? You aren't keeping employees because you are a nice guy.
 
Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because the government requires minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because the government insures that they are safe and work as advertised. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because the government provides laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient because the government protects his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because the government enforces laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, the government provides affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; if Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a government required worker compensation or unemployment check.

Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because his legislators decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because the government provides car safety standards and maintains the roads. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big government its nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. He is happy to see his dad who is now retired and lives on Social Security.

On the way back he turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that government is bad. Joe agrees, “We don’t need big government ruining our lives; after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have”

Original version written by John Gray, Cincinnati, Ohio. Revised by Hard Truth

spam alert-this crap has been posted dozens of times by the socialists who want to pretend that income redistribution is justified

and it ignores that freedom and capitalism is the reason why we are so prosperous.
 
more crap

Actually he is correct on this point when he discusses soft capital. For example, the children of middle class and upper income neighborhoods are far more likely to witness examples of how to successfully maintain a marriage, form a family, or maintain a steady job.
 
Back
Top Bottom