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The Source of Black Poverty

The Source of Black Poverty?

  • The culture-of-poverty option

    Votes: 21 42.9%

  • The black culture option

    Votes: 17 34.7%

  • The racism exists option

    Votes: 10 20.4%

  • All three, with some lean towards 1 & 2

    Votes: 4 8.2%

  • Any combo, including government

    Votes: 13 26.5%

  • Other

    Votes: 14 28.6%
  • Total voters
    49
Redress said:
As you can see, that is not what you claimed.

As my source points out, the IQ gap between races has gone down about 5 points in a matter of years. That strongly suggests environmental factors playing the key role in any differences, since it sure ain't genetics causing the gap to narrow.
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I don't recall suggesting that the environment doesn't play a factor along with genetics.

The paper you linked to supports my comments.

LOL That one really backfired on your ass.
 
Muhammed said:
I don't recall suggesting that the environment doesn't play a factor along with genetics.
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You have not proven any genetic factor tying race and intelligence. You have not even attempted to tie race and "predisposition to violence".
 
Muhammed said:
The IQ tests show that.
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No, they don't. Stop using old racist material. That citation of 70 IQ for sub Saharan Africans is from a famously debunked study by a psychologist. It's merely being noted in the paper you linked. It is not a conclusion generated by the paper you linked. Same for the 80 IQ and American blacks.
 
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Muhammed said:
I don't recall suggesting that the environment doesn't play a factor along with genetics.

The paper you linked to supports my comments.

LOL That one really backfired on your ass.
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That you do not understand what I linked is not surprising. That you cannot defend your claims is even less surprising.
 
Redress said:
You have not proven any genetic factor tying race and intelligence.
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You proved it for me.

Redress said:
You have not even attempted to tie race and "predisposition to violence".
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I realize that economic factors play a huge role in violent crimes such as robbery. Money is the motive.

However, forcible rape is a crime in which there is no economic payoff. So you can't blame socioeconomics.

According to FBI crime statistics, blacks commit 32.9% of forcible rapes, yet they make up a mere 12.6% of the population. How do you explain this huge discrepancy? I think there's obviously a genetic factor at play.

That's just common sense. Black men tend to have higher levels of testosterone and men with higher levels of testosterone have a higher propensity towards violence.

People who try to blame whitey for black crime are disgusting racists.
 
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Muhammed said:
However, forcible rape is a crime in which there is no economic payoff. So you can't blame socioeconomics.
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:lamo

I can't believe that's real. There is no way anyone's grasp of socioeconomics is that shallow.
 
Muhammed said:
You proved it for me.
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No, actually I did not. What I proved is that genetics is a factor in intelligence, not that race was. Nice try, but fail

I realize that economic factors play a huge role in violent crimes such as robbery. Money is the motive.

However, forcible rape is a crime in which there is no economic payoff. So you can't blame socioeconomics.

According to FBI crime statistics, blacks commit 32.9% of forcible rapes, yet they make up a mere 12.6% of the population. How do you explain this huge discrepancy? I think there's obviously a genetic factor at play.
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So you don't have anything in the way of, you know, research or science, just that you think something must be true? Well, I never would have guessed that...

Oh, and Causes of sexual violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Causes of sexual violence are debated and explanations of the cause include socioeconomics, anger, power, sadism, sexual pleasure, psychopathy, ethical standards, laws, attitudes toward the victims and evolutionary pressures.
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Poverty is linked to both the perpetration of sexual violence and the risk of being a victim of it
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ecofarm said:
:lamo

I can't believe that's real. There is no way anyone's grasp of socioeconomics is that shallow.
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Oh, it's real, it's real.
 
Redress said:
No, actually I did not. What I proved is that genetics is a factor in intelligence, not that race was. Nice try, but fail



So you don't have anything in the way of, you know, research or science, just that you think something must be true? Well, I never would have guessed that...

Oh, and Causes of sexual violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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ecofarm said:
I can't believe that's real. There is no way anyone's grasp of socioeconomics is that shallow.
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Wiki says it's being debated. And I would add only wikidiots take that seriously.

Explain how a person's economic status causes them to rape.

I think it's disgusting to try to make ridiculous excuses like that for rapists.
 
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The gap between races is significantly high. I will provide two not mentioned concepts regarding the IQ between races in this thread: a) Reaction range, and b) Flynn effect.

Reaction range is a compromise between two polar positions regarding intelligence. One polar position is that IQ is entirely genetic. The other being that IQ is entirely environmental. The reaction range posits that though genetics may set the range (i.e., the minimum and maximum) of how much one's IQ may rise or fall within one's life, it is the environment that posits one's IQ within the pre-desposed range.

Flynn effect - Is a finding that generation after generation people just get higher in IQ. Hence most of us today would be evaluated as geniuses if tested with intelligence tests of the 60's compared to the ones of today.

Now one way to equalize IQ's would be the following. What if people that are ahead with their IQ's do not have a significantly intellectual environment which might cause their IQ's to be say 110 at minimum from the overall potential of up to 190 in their reaction range? Would this cause them to stagnate happily in 110 for a few generations?

On the other hand other races that are behind in IQ and have genetic IQ predispositions of going from 80-130 would be stimulated intellectually from the environment to increase their IQ's for up to 110 (i.e., near maximum) for a few generations?

Then eventually the IQ's between races in USA might equalize after a few generations. With that there may be less segregated sub-cultures within the USA and each may follow more social means in reaching goals (with less criminal activity). This may explain why the media and the education in USA is "dumbing down" its people as I have heard some complain.

Of course one downsize to this equalization proposal of mine is other countries whom are ahead of USA in IQ from start and may not wait for USA (due to its internal plans) to catch up with them neither. They may not wait for their people who are lower in IQ to catchup with their rest of their people also.

Before you guys consider some white-super-power Aryan race idea regarding IQ I would like to inform you that Japanese people are the highest in IQ with a mean of 140. While we may stagnate in reaching equality they may get further ahead with theirs according to Flynn effect concept.
 
StillBallin75 said:
I think it makes some good points, however, my issue is that the "black culture" and "poor culture" options are viewed as separate and divorced. My issue with the (generally conservative) assertion that black culture is to blame for lack of black progress is that that view tends put culture in a vacuum - in other words, there is something specific about black people and their culture that is holding them back, rather than the view that any race that has gone through what blacks have gone through in American history would likely be facing the same situation.

Whereas I personally believe that if the roles had been reversed - this is is a hypothetical of course - that if blacks had colonized America and enslaved whites and marginalized their opportunities, then whites would be in the same exact situation as blacks are in now. Racial minorities are in their respective situations today because of history and because of ongoing social forces stemming from that history. What many people like to do to too often is to blame the victim. Is that to say that black people shouldn't do more to uplift themselves? Of course not, but if we're going to actually achieve racial equality one day we also have to understand the real root of the problems themselves, and simply blaming blacks for their own problems is not a conclusion that fits the evidence.
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The one problem with this post is that it implies that the black culture option has been the predominant one discussed out in the open and in media. Well it hasn't, it's been the one most hidden from public discussion because it is the least politically correct. I think it's been on the minds of many, and unspoken openly. The primary option PUSHED by black leaders and the media has been the racism option. In fact that horse has been so beat to death that a new one to be born every ten years so the beating can continue.
 
ecofarm said:
Citation?
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I looked in several books, I cannot find it and this is very frustrating to not be able to find the information when needed. For now this will have to do:

Average IQ in US and 80 other nations

In the above it is not 140 but 105.

Still they are ahead. Would remain ahead and may not join the stagnation time proposed in the post above.
 
DDD said:
I looked in several books, I cannot find it and this is very frustrating to not be able to find the information when needed. For now this will have to do:

Average IQ in US and 80 other nations

In the above it is not 140 but 105.

Still they are ahead. Would remain ahead and may not join the stagnation time proposed in the post above.
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Yeah, I didn't think the average Japanese person is a genius. That was a pretty ridiculous claim.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Basically to put it more succintly, I am trying to draw a distinction between:

1) "Black culture" (and the negative aspects thereof) are the product of black people being black and lazy and ignorant, versus

2) "Black culture" (and the negative aspects thereof) are the product of centuries of oppression, segregation, marginalization and discrimination. I think this is a key difference between how left and right wingers talk about race.
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#1 can be changed and fixed, but #2 cannot and holds black people in constant victimhood status. We can't change the past, and no policy can fix the past. At some point you have to lay down the excuses and move on. We're all very sorry about what happened, but it can't be changed. Slavery ended 150 years ago, and $trillions have been spent to make up for it. But we're not making any progress spending money on it, so something else has be the primary cause now. And no one is ever going to sell me on the idea that the white population is so thorough saturated with racist thought and tendencies that blacks are refused jobs and access at every single turn. Sure there is some, but not enough to hold that many people back.
 
opendebate said:
I think that there is an enormous amout of hypocrisy and lack of insight that surrounds this issue. It comes down to a very simple question. Either you believe that Black people are inherently lazy and immoral or you believe that a cultures history in large part shapes how that culture evolves.
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That is a classic example of a false dichotomy.
 
DDD said:
In the above it is not 140 but 105.

Still they are ahead. Would remain ahead and may not join the stagnation time proposed in the post above.
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Why would you propose IQ stagnation in the first place?

And IIRC the so-called "Flynn effect" is solely based on an outlier study with a very small sample size.
 
Gipper said:
Culture of poverty option.

Laziness, lack of work ethic, unskilled status, and a lack of education are the sources of poverty. I don't give a damn what color you are.

Blacks just seem more prone to blame external forces, such as "the man".
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Everybody blames "the man". Why is one group's "blaming the man" valid, while another's is not or seen as a "detrimental excuse"?

This forum is fill to the brim with people "blaming the man" for their lot in life.
 
Muhammed said:
Why would you propose IQ stagnation in the first place?

And IIRC the so-called "Flynn effect" is solely based on an outlier study with a very small sample size.
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Oh, no, no, no... I am not proposing to stagnate! Who could do such a thing?

I propose an explanation as to why the media and the education system is "dumbing down" Americans. I have heard complaints about it and thus propose the explanation that the purpose to "dumb down" may be equalization of intelligences.
 
1750Texan said:
Everybody blames "the man". Why is one group's "blaming the man" valid, while another's is not or seen as a "detrimental excuse"?

This forum is fill to the brim with people "blaming the man" for their lot in life.
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The difference who The Man is. The man is not the same for everyone.
 
I also think racism has a lot to do with black poverty. Anti-white racism to be specific. The American left constantly forwards the idea that it is OK or even desirable to be racist against whites. The result being that many black youth have a hard time obtaining gainful employment because they have a bad attitude regarding many potential employers. Employers catch on to the hate vibe and don't want anything to do with someone who hates them. I know I've never hired a guy who was sending a hate vibe towards me beneath their painted on smile.
 
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