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Should college students be able to unionize?

cpgrad08 said:
Tell that to Texas High School football.
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yeah, right. The state where a town spent 60mil on a football stadium for their freaking high school.

How much more money do we have to give them before it's enough?

Ps, that stadium is already falling apart.
 
RiverDad said:
These players are creating economic value. We all acknowledge that, don't we? The question here is how that economic value should be allocated. Right now it is the coaches and the University (the owner) who get it all. The players deserve to get some of that far more so that non-player students who get the benefit of lowered costs as the profits are plowed back into the university.
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They get a lot more than other students. They don't pay a dime for their education.

The alternative here is for universities to divest themselves of football teams, let some businessmen buy the stadiums and teams, license the use of the university name, transform college ball into a minor league for football, and then hire players directly from high schools and pay them whatever the market will bear.
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Or the ball players can realize they get an education completely free off cost.

I'm a capitalist, but I'm not in favor of exploitation of labor.
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Playing children's games for amusement isn't labor.
 
CLAX1911 said:
They get a lot more than other students. They don't pay a dime for their education.
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For the players who don't have a realistic shot at hitting the pros, that might be enough for most of them.

Or the ball players can realize they get an education completely free off cost.
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Even for players who can't make the pros but who are part of teams which rake into 10s of millions of dollars for their schools, these guys might not be satisfied with getting a free education. If you're undervalued at work, the fact that you're getting a salary doesn't erase the fact that you think that you're worth more and that you're willing to fight or negotiate for more. When your boss tells you "What are you complaining about, I'm already paying you" that's not going to end the matter for you.

Playing children's games for amusement isn't labor.
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Tell that to the businessmen who coach the teams, the one's who televise the games, the recruiters for the pros, the pro team owners. They're all working and getting paid, so why shouldn't the players.
 
CLAX1911 said:
The National Labor Relations Board in Chicago has ruled that football players at Northwestern University are employees and can unionize.

Question is what do you think?
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I bet this ruling doesn't survive federal court review
 
Where is the poll?
 
RiverDad said:
For the players who don't have a realistic shot at hitting the pros, that might be enough for most of them.
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It's enough for all of them.

Being a student isn't a paying job.



Even for players who can't make the pros but who are part of teams which rake into 10s of millions of dollars for their schools, these guys might not be satisfied with getting a free education.
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They don't have to go to school than.

If they aren't satisfied they can turn the deal down or quit playing games for amusement.

If you're undervalued at work, the fact that you're getting a salary doesn't erase the fact that you think that you're worth more and that you're willing to fight or negotiate for more. When your boss tells you "What are you complaining about, I'm already paying you" that's not going to end the matter for you.
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Why do you fail to understand being a student, (I.e. choosing to be a consumer of a service provided by a university) is not employment. They have hired the school to educate them.



Tell that to the businessmen who coach the teams, the one's who televise the games, the recruiters for the pros, the pro team owners. They're all working and getting paid, so why shouldn't the players.
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Students aren't employees of a college they are customers of a college.

So your comparisons to business and labor are of no relevance.

A customer/student isn't an employee.
 
CLAX1911 said:
There is nothing to stop them from collectively refusing to play games for the college. But the college should be allowed to throw them out.
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That is how I have always seen things

employees should be able to unionize but the employer should have the right to fire them for that

if the employees are able to get all competent labor to agree-they win

if the employer can find competent replacement labor, the unionizers get squashed

the government shouldn't protect either entity
 
CLAX1911 said:
The National Labor Relations Board in Chicago has ruled that football players at Northwestern University are employees and can unionize.

Question is what do you think?
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Everyone has a right to organize and advocate for their interests.
 
TurtleDude said:
That is how I have always seen things

employees should be able to unionize but the employer should have the right to fire them for that

if the employees are able to get all competent labor to agree-they win

if the employer can find competent replacement labor, the unionizers get squashed

the government shouldn't protect either entity
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I think I've established my bona fides as a cold-hearted capitalist bastard, but I can't go along with that. Capital has an inherent advantage over labor, especially when we're talking about individuals instead of groups and so this type of arrangement where replacement labor is used to boot out the union labor is just wrong. When you're screwing with people's livelihoods then you get murders of replacement laborers and of management.

If unions are being totally unreasonable and threatening to bankrupt a corporation then management can relocate, but when it comes to negotiating how to split the wealth created, labor needs to have some leverage to use against capital and unions are, in theory, the best way to do that.
 
RiverDad said:
I think I've established my bona fides as a cold-hearted capitalist bastard, but I can't go along with that. Capital has an inherent advantage over labor, especially when we're talking about individuals instead of groups and so this type of arrangement where replacement labor is used to boot out the union labor is just wrong. When you're screwing with people's livelihoods then you get murders of replacement laborers and of management.

If unions are being totally unreasonable and threatening to bankrupt a corporation then management can relocate, but when it comes to negotiating how to split the wealth created, labor needs to have some leverage to use against capital and unions are, in theory, the best way to do that.
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opinion noted-not shared
 
TheLastIndependent said:
And as for the rest of us college students that have to pay for medical bills and may not have adequate time to study? Should we just put everybody in a foam room? They made a choice to attend COLLEGE and play a sport. The chance of injury is not created by the school but something they voluntarily signed up for
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The school is making millions of dollars off of them. The least they could do is pay for the medical bills associated with the activity that made the school millions of dollars.
 
CLAX1911 said:
The National Labor Relations Board in Chicago has ruled that football players at Northwestern University are employees and can unionize.

Question is what do you think?
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There are student unions everywhere. The NLRB would want nothing to do with them, nor would it extend many rights to them, because students are not employees.
 
Your Star said:
The school is making millions of dollars off of them. The least they could do is pay for the medical bills associated with the activity that made the school millions of dollars.
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Or they could suffice with just having the burden of housing and the incredibly expensive tuition lifted from them. As for walk ons, they made a voluntary choice to play the sport.

Should the school also pay for medical services of its tuition paying students whom they also acquire millions from (depending on the size of the school)?
 
Medical bills last late into life for some.

Besides the 60 or more hours at this full-time job, there's been no mention of the time they spend on full-time academics.
And we see outstanding GPAs with outstanding degrees all the time.
And they are limited to how many hours they can work at a job.

Northwestern, which lost in court and is appealing, is whining today they'll drop any of these sports,
as they monetarily can, but most Universities can't .
Your Star said:
The school is making millions of dollars off of them. The least they could do is pay for the medical bills associated with the activity that made the school millions of dollars.
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CLAX1911 said:
okay then they aren't students, they are pro ball players, if they don't have to study and pass then they aren't really students.
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I think they're part student but not fully and part professional athlete but not fully. With regular students, education comes first. With NCAA student athletes playing ball and winning games comes first. They answer to a coach who is often a millionaire and sometimes a multi-millionaire. The schools fill up stadiums and arena grossing millions per game. The schools have seven figure athletic shoe endorsements. The school gets TV ad revenue and sells team apparel. I just think its only fair for the students to get something and I'm okay with squirrelling all away in a Roth IRA or something similar.
 
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TheLastIndependent said:
Or they could suffice with just having the burden of housing and the incredibly expensive tuition lifted from them. As for walk ons, they made a voluntary choice to play the sport.

Should the school also pay for medical services of its tuition paying students whom they also acquire millions from (depending on the size of the school)?
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That's just not enough.
 
First thought: Why?

Second thought: Oh, football, that kinda makes sense.

Third thought: Why not non-players?

Sure as hell I could see some merit in an organization that lobbies and organizes on behalf of students.


I suppose there are various school-specific organizations for that kind of thing.


Edit: Especially tuition.
 
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TurtleDude said:
That is how I have always seen things

employees should be able to unionize but the employer should have the right to fire them for that

if the employees are able to get all competent labor to agree-they win

if the employer can find competent replacement labor, the unionizers get squashed

the government shouldn't protect either entity
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I agree. If the company can survive without it's unionized personnel than the union was called on it's bluff.
 
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