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Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

  • School grounds only.

    Votes: 31 63.3%

  • Up to the time the student(s) get home.

    Votes: 8 16.3%

  • Anytime, anything, anywhere.

    Votes: 4 8.2%

  • Other

    Votes: 6 12.2%
  • Total voters
    49
Other
no lines
Both government(school), society, and parents must be involved as much as possible, but NOT micro-managing..
Bullying is serious - reveals many problems...as to the why...these things must be nipped in the bud, but carefully and fairly.
 
radcen said:
Example: Mary and her friends have been harassing Dorothy at school. Bullying, if you will. Said harassing and bullying eventually expands to walking home, and then beyond that to Facebook and the internet at all times of the day.

Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

Should the school's authority to discipline stop at the school's property line?

Should the school be responsible until the student(s) get home?

Should the school have authority to discipline at all hours, which would essentially be anything and anywhere?

What think you?
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Schools are responsible for anything going on in the school, the property the school is on and the public school bus. A schools authority can extend if the students are on an official school field trip.Anything else then the school is overstepping its authority.
 
radcen said:
Example: Mary and her friends have been harassing Dorothy at school. Bullying, if you will. Said harassing and bullying eventually expands to walking home, and then beyond that to Facebook and the internet at all times of the day.

Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

Should the school's authority to discipline stop at the school's property line?

Should the school be responsible until the student(s) get home?

Should the school have authority to discipline at all hours, which would essentially be anything and anywhere?

What think you?
Click to expand...

Dorothy should get herself a gun, learn to use it and then blow the bitches away.
 
MaggieD said:
Yeah, I'm talking about parents taking these things away. I can easily agree with your thoughts on the one being bullied...if one could police the posts so the child wouldn't see them. But I don't think that can be done. Even if you defriend the trouble-makers, unless all one's other friends defriend as well, their posts will still be seen. I don't know . . . maybe a month's hiatus and then try again...?

Why would I want my kid to stand in a room surrounded by people who are making fun of him and calling him names? That's just plain sadistic. Get him out of the room. Sign him off social media. Same thing.
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I suppose it depends on the medium being exploited as well. Some have better privacy policies than others. I think we can both agree it's a terribly difficult situation.
Gaius46 said:
No what I'm saying is that if nothing happened in school it's the parent's responsibility to deal with it not the schools.
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I understand what you're saying, but what I'm saying is it's not usually that cut and dry or black and white. Bullying is more than physical or even words, it could be something as simple as otherwise innocuous actions, but ones which are obviously intended to intimidate.

I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is there's no on/off switch and that what happens at home carries over to school and vice versa.
 
school property and buses...but those bulling kids better watch out .. after awhile the kids being bullied get tired of it and someone may get hurt...
 
Slyfox696 said:
I suppose it depends on the medium being exploited as well. Some have better privacy policies than others. I think we can both agree it's a terribly difficult situation.
I understand what you're saying, but what I'm saying is it's not usually that cut and dry or black and white. Bullying is more than physical or even words, it could be something as simple as otherwise innocuous actions, but ones which are obviously intended to intimidate.

I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is there's no on/off switch and that what happens at home carries over to school and vice versa.
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Agreed. Do you view bullying as a special case? Would you, for example, view a school policy of expelling a student who committed a crime - say possession of marijuana - off school property as a legitimate exercise of school authority?
 
If in school, the school and superintendent, if necessary, should be contacted.

If out of school, the police should be contacted if it is at a level to be considered criminal.

If not to the level of criminal, the parents need to teach their children how to handle bullies, and I don't mean teach them how to punch one in the face. Bullies are so much easier to diffuse than one thinks. Though it takes a plan and the bullied person needs a safe place to roll play the solutions til they are comfortable with them before using them at school. My daughter went through this, and over weekend we set a plan, I became her weekend bully and I was as mean and hateful as they were, over and over, until she could play her part without whine, whimper, or skittishness. Within a week it was all done, and she was never bullied again AND most importantly she gained a lot of self-confidence handling it herself which has served her well ever since.
 
Gaius46 said:
Agreed. Do you view bullying as a special case? Would you, for example, view a school policy of expelling a student who committed a crime - say possession of marijuana - off school property as a legitimate exercise of school authority?
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I would not.
 
Slyfox696 said:
The problem with deciding where a line "should" be drawn is the fact real life has no lines. The bullying which happens over text and Facebook over the weekend is brought into the schools on Monday. This is a problem our school dealt with just this week.

What "should" happen is parents SHOULD jerk on knot in their child's tail if their child is bullying someone when they are home. What SHOULD happen is the school should only be responsible for educating, not teaching manners and how to behave. What SHOULD happen is parents should be parents and be responsible for their child's actions.

Unfortunately, what SHOULD happen is not what actually happens. So the school has to step in and take action when behaviors over the weekend have an effect at school. The hard part is knowing what qualifies as affecting education. At the end of the day, if the school can help prevent the abuse of one child by another child or children, then they should do what they can to protect the first child.

At the end of the day, the school is part of the community and the community should do everything they can to protect children who need protecting.
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I will agree with part of what you said.

The school should get the parents involved to resolve whatever situation arises, however if the parents do not do anything or the behaviour continues, then the school should step in if, as you say, it is affecting the schoolwork of the child.

The parent should always be the first call before the school hands down any kind of punishment.
 
Going to and from school is a proper limit.
 
Mason66 said:
Why does a kid need a phone at all?
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Actually, I want to agree with this, but pay phones are few and far between - at least where I live.
 
As long as they are misbehaving against others from that school, they should get punished by the school even if it is off school grounds. But there must be real evidence against them for that to take place.
 
year2late said:
Mason66 said:
Why does a kid need a phone at all?
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Actually, I want to agree with this, but pay phones are few and far between - at least where I live.
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Agreed. I want to say kids don't need phones... though the definition of "need" should factor in as well... but the reality is that the world has changed. For good or for bad, they are becoming more and more necessary.
 
Slyfox696 said:
What "should" happen is parents SHOULD jerk on knot in their child's tail if their child is bullying someone when they are home. What SHOULD happen is the school should only be responsible for educating, not teaching manners and how to behave. What SHOULD happen is parents should be parents and be responsible for their child's actions.
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Right. That is what I thought also.

Parents should control their kids and stop them from bullying younger kids. Also a policy may be issued that an older by age bully shall be stopped (i.e., sanctioned) from bullying young kids from someone who is even more older than the bully for instance. So the kids cannot be bullied from bigger children while they are not allowed to bully younger children also.

I try to teach bullies that their approach is futile for there is always and always someone older/bigger/stronger than them. They should instead pick someone their own size.
 
Gaius46 said:
Agreed. Do you view bullying as a special case? Would you, for example, view a school policy of expelling a student who committed a crime - say possession of marijuana - off school property as a legitimate exercise of school authority?
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It would depend on the issue really. For example, whenever students are caught with alcohol, most schools suspend or dismiss the student from the athletic team. I see it happen all the time at different schools. I would think if a student attempted to murder another one, then they would not be allowed at school either.

Mason66 said:
I will agree with part of what you said.

The school should get the parents involved to resolve whatever situation arises, however if the parents do not do anything or the behaviour continues, then the school should step in if, as you say, it is affecting the schoolwork of the child.

The parent should always be the first call before the school hands down any kind of punishment.
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When you say "any kind of punishment", are you limiting that to major offense? Because surely you understand schools simply don't have time to play phone tag every time someone gets a detention for being late to class.

If you're simply talking about major offenses, then I agree and usually schools will. I obviously cannot speak for all schools, but from what I know of the schools I have knowledge/experience with, they will call.
 
radcen said:
Example: Mary and her friends have been harassing Dorothy at school. Bullying, if you will. Said harassing and bullying eventually expands to walking home, and then beyond that to Facebook and the internet at all times of the day.

Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

Should the school's authority to discipline stop at the school's property line?

Should the school be responsible until the student(s) get home?

Should the school have authority to discipline at all hours, which would essentially be anything and anywhere?

What think you?
Click to expand...

I think it depends slightly on if we are talking specifically about authority as it relates to your bullying example or if we also include general responsibility. For example: An elementary school has a fence around it's playground. But there is a widening hole and one day a second grader climbs through it and his struck by a car. Is the school responsible? I think they probably are. In that sense what happens when the student leaves school, even if it was illicit, is very much on the schools shoulders.

But authority over students? I'm not sure. It seems hard to argue (to me) that a public school should have the right to penalize or scrutinize what students do with their speech (FB, Twitter, etc) on their own free time regardless of the deleterious effects it might have at school. Unless it's against the law in which case I think schools have clauses that give them rights to discipline students I'm not sure it's a justifiable, or good for that matter, precedent to establish.

Though I'm sympathetic to contrary arguments.
 
radcen said:
Example: Mary and her friends have been harassing Dorothy at school. Bullying, if you will. Said harassing and bullying eventually expands to walking home, and then beyond that to Facebook and the internet at all times of the day.

Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

Should the school's authority to discipline stop at the school's property line?

Should the school be responsible until the student(s) get home?

Should the school have authority to discipline at all hours, which would essentially be anything and anywhere?

What think you?
Click to expand...

Implicit in your scenario described is the school's lack of involvement in dealing with the bullying in the first place, since you describe it as occurring at at school and then expanding. As such, the school is actually complicit in the bullying since it allows it to occur.

Before anything else, I believe those who administer schools should take responsibility for their role in the process. Without such, it simply becomes a matter of doing what is expedient instead of doing that which fosters safety and a healthy learning environment.
 
Sherman123 said:
I think it depends slightly on if we are talking specifically about authority as it relates to your bullying example or if we also include general responsibility. For example: An elementary school has a fence around it's playground. But there is a widening hole and one day a second grader climbs through it and his struck by a car. Is the school responsible? I think they probably are. In that sense what happens when the student leaves school, even if it was illicit, is very much on the schools shoulders.

But authority over students? I'm not sure. It seems hard to argue (to me) that a public school should have the right to penalize or scrutinize what students do with their speech (FB, Twitter, etc) on their own free time regardless of the deleterious effects it might have at school. Unless it's against the law in which case I think schools have clauses that give them rights to discipline students I'm not sure it's a justifiable, or good for that matter, precedent to establish.

Though I'm sympathetic to contrary arguments.
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Good post. I like your hole in the fence scenario. In that case, the school was probably negligent and should be held responsible.


Gardener said:
Implicit in your scenario described is the school's lack of involvement in dealing with the bullying in the first place, since you describe it as occurring at at school and then expanding. As such, the school is actually complicit in the bullying since it allows it to occur.

Before anything else, I believe those who administer schools should take responsibility for their role in the process. Without such, it simply becomes a matter of doing what is expedient instead of doing that which fosters safety and a healthy learning environment.
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To a great degree, sure. Fact is that most kids meet at school, and spend the majority of their active social time at school, and much of this time is spent with other kids that they both like and dislike.
 
year2late said:
Actually, I want to agree with this, but pay phones are few and far between - at least where I live.
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As a kid I can't remember even one time I needed to make a call onthe Street.

What is so important to a kid that they have to make a call right at that second, and plkease don't say he needs it for an emergency, because that is not true. There si always a pone available in case of an emergency.
 
Slyfox696 said:
It would depend on the issue really. For example, whenever students are caught with alcohol, most schools suspend or dismiss the student from the athletic team. I see it happen all the time at different schools. I would think if a student attempted to murder another one, then they would not be allowed at school either.


When you say "any kind of punishment", are you limiting that to major offense? Because surely you understand schools simply don't have time to play phone tag every time someone gets a detention for being late to class.

If you're simply talking about major offenses, then I agree and usually schools will. I obviously cannot speak for all schools, but from what I know of the schools I have knowledge/experience with, they will call.
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I don't see detention as a punishment. A punishment changes the kids life, like s suspensión or expulsión. Detention is a learning tool.
 
Mason66 said:
As a kid I can't remember even one time I needed to make a call onthe Street.

What is so important to a kid that they have to make a call right at that second, and plkease don't say he needs it for an emergency, because that is not true. There si always a pone available in case of an emergency.
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Depending on where you live, no there is not.

Growing up we had friends and classmates on almost every block.

It just is not like that anymore.

If we were in another part of the city and our bus brokedown or we missed our connection, our parents would flip if we didn't call. But there were payphones everywhere. We were not calling for a bailout, just "hey, we are still trying to get back and there is a huge mess on Market St, we will at least be another hour or so'
 
I'd say only on school grounds. Which would include school transport vehicles, as someone pointed out.

However I see one main issue with that - not all parents discipline their children's misbehavior correctly, and some don't do so at all.

But is it even possible to legislate/regulate that, and even if we could, should we?
 
radcen said:
Example: Mary and her friends have been harassing Dorothy at school. Bullying, if you will. Said harassing and bullying eventually expands to walking home, and then beyond that to Facebook and the internet at all times of the day.

Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

Should the school's authority to discipline stop at the school's property line?

Should the school be responsible until the student(s) get home?

Should the school have authority to discipline at all hours, which would essentially be anything and anywhere?

What think you?
Click to expand...
Turning to the school isn't the answer. File restraining orders and a harassment lawsuit against the children directly instead.
 
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