Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

Layla_Z said:

It's great to say parents should do their jobs. I completely agree. But what happens when they don't. The school contacts the parents and says your child is bullying another child. Here's what's going to happen at school as a consequence but you need to take steps to stop it at home. Too often the parent's reaction will be to attack and blame the school. Schools have been taking on more and more of the parent's job because too many aren't doing their job.

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I knew a set of parents just like this when my kids were in school. The principal, who was a friend of mine, told me once that whenever their kids got in trouble... which was fairly often... they would scream and yell (at the school), bring in lawyers, and so on.

I was always me belief that the kids got in trouble often BECAUSE they knew there were no consequences from their parents. That their parents would, in fact, back them up.

radcen said:

That's what I had always been told, going back to when I was a kid, that the school was responsible until you got home, regardless how you got home. I had always accepted it as such, and never really thought about it.

Now, whether or not that's really true, or they were lying to keep us in line, I don't know. I was never a trouble-maker, so I never had reason to test it out and find out.

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I think the school probably assumes authority. Not at all sure about being "legally responsible." For instance, if a little boy is being beaten up every day on his way home from school by the school yard bully? I'm thinking the school could take action. As to the parent holding the school "legally responsible" for the little boy's safety? I think that's a different kettle of fish.

MaggieD said:

I think the school probably assumes authority. Not at all sure about being "legally responsible." For instance, if a little boy is being beaten up every day on his way home from school by the school yard bully? I'm thinking the school could take action. As to the parent holding the school "legally responsible" for the little boy's safety? I think that's a different kettle of fish.

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Good distinction.

radcen said:

I knew a set of parents just like this when my kids were in school. The principal, who was a friend of mine, told me once that whenever their kids got in trouble... which was fairly often... they would scream and yell (at the school), bring in lawyers, and so on.

I was always me belief that the kids got in trouble often BECAUSE they knew there were no consequences from their parents. That their parents would, in fact, back them up.

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Of course that's why the got in trouble. This happens more and more often.

Every conservative here has only one thing in mind with this question: Will I get to teach my kids about my religion?

It's pathetic. The government isn't trying to destroy your faith, it's trying to provide an education environment in which kids can learn and think freely without being harassed by anyone, physically or intellectually. That includes the home, in the 21st century.

radcen said:

I knew a set of parents just like this when my kids were in school. The principal, who was a friend of mine, told me once that whenever their kids got in trouble... which was fairly often... they would scream and yell (at the school), bring in lawyers, and so on.

I was always me belief that the kids got in trouble often BECAUSE they knew there were no consequences from their parents. That their parents would, in fact, back them up.

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I have a couple of students about to get kicked out of school because they won't follow any rules. They don't work, interrupt lessons, distract students, use cell phones and won't hand it over to teacher, etc. When I talked to the parent she said that makes sense because she does the same at home. I asked what she does about that and the parent said that she just doesn't give her any rules anymore and that she never followed them anyway. I had to shake my head because obviously the parent never instilled structure or consequences with the girl when she was younger. We are finding more and more students like this.

Like zero tolerance rules, I'm finding anti-bullying an all or nothing proposition. Nearly once a week a child will complain they are being bullied. Once investigated, (and we have to investigate them all) it's mostly been found two kids involved in an argument but we label everything bullying now a days. There are so many kids having investigations, which takes up precious time for those who may actually be bullied. I fear real cases aren't getting reported so the system isn't working as efficiently as it should. Not to mention black and white thinking. In one particular case, a child with a diagnosis of NLD (which is a form of autism) got in house suspension when what he really needs is social skill classes because like most children with autism he lacks social skills. I tried to explain that to the administrator who promptly put in my mailbox the procedures to take for x,y and z with no kind of critical thinking skills that appeared on the sheet. I say anything off school grounds, the parents are best to decide solutions rather than relying on the schools. If they want help from the school, that's fine. They shouldn't expect the school to always knows best nor be some kind of expert authority. Until schools stop using strict protocol and start using thinking skills I may change my mind.

rabbitcaebannog said:

Like zero tolerance rules, I'm finding anti-bullying an all or nothing proposition. Nearly once a week a child will complain they are being bullied. Once investigated, (and we have to investigate them all) it's mostly been found two kids involved in an argument but we label everything bullying now a days. There are so many kids having investigations, which takes up precious time for those who may actually be bullied. I fear real cases aren't getting reported so the system isn't working as efficiently as it should. Not to mention black and white thinking. In one particular case, a child with a diagnosis of NLD (which is a form of autism) got in house suspension when what he really needs is social skill classes because like most children with autism he lacks social skills. I tried to explain that to the administrator who promptly put in my mailbox the procedures to take for x,y and z with no kind of critical thinking skills that appeared on the sheet. I say anything off school grounds, the parents are best to decide solutions rather than relying on the schools. If they want help from the school, that's fine. They shouldn't expect the school to always knows best nor be some kind of expert authority. Until schools stop using strict protocol and start using thinking skills I may change my mind.

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I tend to believe that many people in those positions treat "zero tolerance" as more of a "get it off my desk and off my back" process.

Good question.

I believe the authority (for lack of a better word) should exist only at the school. When you give more people authority for just purposes, that same authority will be used for unjust purposes.

I also don't support bullying, neither. So other steps should be taken to address that problem.