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Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room?

So do you think the father has a legal right to see his baby born or be in the room?

  • Yes, he has a legal right and my opinion agrees with that.

    Votes: 7 12.7%

  • Yes, he has a legal right and in my opinion he shouldnt.

    Votes: 1 1.8%

  • No, he has no legal right and my opinion agrees with that.

    Votes: 35 63.6%

  • No, he has no legal right and in my opinion he should.

    Votes: 2 3.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 7 12.7%

  • I Love Chicken Parm

    Votes: 9 16.4%
  • Total voters
    55
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gipper said:
Oh good - you're back. Maybe you can shed more light onto the "men film childbirths for custody high-ground" debacle.

I would LOVE to get your perspective on this.
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What is that? I never implied any such thing, if you refer to me.

I said any person in a relationship can decide to be a jerk someday and post sensitive things on the Internet. Had nothing to do with custody.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gipper said:
Just more proof: In ChrisL's world, women have rights. Men have responsibilities.

Curse me being born into this penis-possessing no-win body.
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What in the hell makes you think the woman has no responsibility? You are delusional.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Lursa said:
What is that? I never implied any such thing, if you refer to me.

I said any person in a relationship can decide to be a jerk someday and post sensitive things on the Internet. Had nothing to do with custody.
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That too. Good point.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

lizzie said:
As much as I often agree with you on many issues, on this one, I think you're a little off base. Is it not the father (whom I am assuming she had sex with, at some point) that we are talking about? Did she not sleep with the man in order to get to the point of this story even being an issue? If she slept with him, for Chrissakes, there is no reason to be feeling all queasy and self-conscious about her privacy at this point. So she slept with him, got pregnant by him, and now she feels distrustful and doesn't like the guy. She would have been much smarter to get to know him well enough to know if he was trustworthy in the first place, rather than doing something completely stupid, then getting hysterical in retrospect. I am not saying that his rights trump her right to privacy, but I am saying that I can completely understand why so many people think she is being a bit unreasonable.
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People are unreasonable after breakups all the time...that's a fact of life for everyone. And it's usually both that are at fault and both that can act like jerks. So I agree but dont see how it should affect the outcome here...as you also mention.

By no means do I blame her for wanting to protect herself from humiliation (perceived or real) in front of a man she no longer likes or trusts.

During the pain and fear of labor....she needs that on top of it?
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
Well, your ideas are just not realistic in our society. Maybe 200 years ago, but not anymore. There are TOO many unplanned pregnancies to poor people who need support or will starve, the man has to support his offspring, and if he doesn't want to do that, he should become celibate because he knows damn well that having sex can and does result in pregnancy and he knows that in our society he is expected to pay for that child, whether he wants to or not, and that is because (as I've explained to you AD NAUSEUM) the burden would fall on SOCIETY.
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There was always a greater amount unplanned pregnancies in poor populations. It's a given that if you have a poor population that you will have higher birthrates and many of those born will be unplanned. I'm not here to talk about how I find disagreement with government imposed child support, but there is little doubt it does nothing to fight against any sort of problems in society. The fact remains that if all you have is "I have government force to equalize the situation" then your argument is complete tripe. Women are are always going to be more inclined to concern themselves with pregnancy than men and it's why the situation hasn't really changed all that much even after child support laws.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
This is true and I'm not denying that. I am saying that it is unreasonable to expect the woman to make a better decision than the man. She could be slow, she could be young, she could be just naive, she could have been just plain old seduced and horny. Just because the consequences are going to be greater, that doesn't mean her decisions are going to be any better, and the same goes for the man. If he knows a woman is crazy, and he sleeps with her anyway, is that HER fault?

There have MULTIPLE cases of women who are mentally challenged who have been impregnated MULTIPLE times. Is it "their" fault? Should they be guarding against pregnancy because the men are innocent victims of their sexuality? It is just so ridiculous to me.
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The point doesn't really apply to the mentally challenged, but those who should "know better" in the first place.

Unfortunately, rather than encouraging caution or responsibility, we live in a culture which encourages hedonism and risky, narcissistic behavior. This has been especially hard on women as they are no longer being brought up to be as selective or careful with their sexuality as was normal in the past.

It would better if more women and men alike practiced sexual responsibility rather than reckless promiscuity. That was Lizzie's point, I'm pretty sure.

Gipper said:
That's the only reason why I may give this girl a pass. If guys can "fire and flee", then the woman can call a few more shots when it comes to the baby. Having said that, I'm much more sympathetic to men who do that now, whereas I used to consider them rather sleazy. Now they're just doing the logical thing when you nail a bitch that turns out to be a wackjob.
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It's kind of a sleazy world in general these days. A guy's got to watch his back.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

leoborn said:
She is the one who will have a baby, not him, so its her responsibility to protect herself if she decides to have sex.
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You would think that would be on the mind of every woman engaging in sex. Today over 40% of births are born to unwed mothers at a time where birth control has never been more easy to get at a cost even the poorest among us can afford. There are 1.2 million abortions each year where 4 out of 10 pregnancies end aborted.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
Maybe she has issues, and HE should have made better decisions. A lot of single parents are TEENAGE girls and some, yes, are mentally disturbed or just not very healthy emotionally, and this goes for the men and women.

How you can say there is hypocrisy on HER part without knowing the story is hypocrisy on your part.

Do you know he hasn't been physically violent with her or threatened her? NO you do not know ANY details.
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Please stop making women look like victims who cant take care of themselves or make bad choices as a rule.

I didnt mean to make women look like that earlier, if I did it was unintentional; it was because the realities of labor for any woman are graphic, painful, and frightening...and that's not to be discounted by anyone, male or female.

But we have the right to privacy and safety without relying on excuses of weakness of body or mind.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Lursa said:
What is that? I never implied any such thing, if you refer to me.

I said any person in a relationship can decide to be a jerk someday and post sensitive things on the Internet. Had nothing to do with custody.
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Post #382

Lursa said:
What's to stop him from doing so? How about when they get into a child custody fight sometime in the future?
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Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gathomas88 said:
The point doesn't really apply to the mentally challenged, but those who should "know better" in the first place.

Unfortunately, rather than encouraging caution or responsibility, we live in a culture which encourages hedonism and risky, narcissistic behavior. This has been especially hard on women as they are no longer being brought up to be as selective or careful with their sexuality as was normal in the past.

It would better if more women and men alike practiced sexual responsibility rather than reckless promiscuity. That was Lizzie's point, I'm pretty sure.



It's kind of a sleazy world in general these days. A guy's got to watch his back.
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No, clearly people are putting the blame on the back of the woman and excusing the man for his behavior, as if he is somehow more stupid or less able to control himself. That is not true, and yes, being mentally challenged or slow does certainly play a role. Many, many people suffer from one form of mental illness or another. That's a fact.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Lursa said:
Please stop making women look like victims who cant take care of themselves or make bad choices as a rule.

I didnt mean to make women look like that earlier, if I did it was unintentional; it was because the realities of labor for any woman are graphic, painful, and frightening...and that's not to be discounted by anyone, male or female.

But we have the right to privacy and safety without relying on excuses of weakness of body or mind.
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WHAT are you talking about. I'm doing NO such thing. I am simply stating facts.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

vesper said:
You would think that would be on the mind of every woman engaging in sex. Today over 40% of births are born to unwed mothers at a time where birth control has never been more easy to get at a cost even the poorest among us can afford. There are 1.2 million abortions each year where 4 out of 10 pregnancies end aborted.
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It was certainly on my mind, every single time!

Hence I dont really excuse women who dont take responsibility for it or believe the BS that men throw out there just to get laid, and then get preg.

But this thread is not about that, at all. They had a legitimate relationship, from the sound of it.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
WHAT are you talking about. I'm doing NO such thing. I am simply stating facts.
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Don't listen to her. I agree with you. Women are physically and mentally weaker.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Lursa said:
It was certainly on my mind, every single time!

Hence I dont really excuse women who dont take responsibility for it or believe the BS that men throw out there just to get laid, and then get preg.

But this thread is not about that, at all. They had a legitimate relationship, from the sound of it.
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Well if it was on your mind and you engaged in sex anyway, you are one of the people they are talking about. Sex out of wedlock, a big no-no to conservatives you know. ;)
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gipper said:
Don't listen to her. I agree with you. Women are mentally weaker.
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YOU certainly prove that argument wrong every time you post.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
No, clearly people are putting the blame on the back of the woman and excusing the man for his behavior, as if he is somehow more stupid or less able to control himself.
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I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm certainly not suggesting that. :shrug:

All I said is that women have a vested interest in being more careful, as they naturally face a lot more risks than men.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gipper said:
Post #382
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Lursa said:
What's to stop him from doing so? How about when they get into a child custody fight sometime in the future?
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I went back and looked at it in context. I did not mean he would use it in court against her, which is what I thought you meant, 200 posts later.

I meant that he could use the threat of posting it publicly on the Internet as leverage in a custody battle.

So yes, he could be a jerk and do that.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gathomas88 said:
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm certainly not suggesting that. :shrug:

All I said is that women have a vested interest in being more careful, as they naturally face a lot more risks than men.
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But they aren't. Obviously. So your point is what should be instead of what is actually happening. That is what makes it ridiculous.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gipper said:
So when he holds out his hand for her to hold, is it because they're on a first date?
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Holding someone's hand is not the same as feeling that wave of excruciating pain sweep over your abdomen.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
Well if it was on your mind and you engaged in sex anyway, you are one of the people they are talking about. Sex out of wedlock, a big no-no to conservatives you know. ;)
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Like I care. We were together 13 years..more than many are married for...didnt bother marrying. Didnt feel the need to since we specifically did not want kids.

Like I would deprive myself of enjoying sex because of other people's moralization. Heh.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gipper said:
Don't listen to her. I agree with you. Women are physically and mentally weaker.
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Thin ice, boy-o. ;)

Physically, most women are weaker in certain aspects.

Mentally, you don't stand a chance.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
Well if it was on your mind and you engaged in sex anyway, you are one of the people they are talking about. Sex out of wedlock, a big no-no to conservatives you know. ;)
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If out-of-wedlock sex was a big issue to conservatives, there wouldn't be many conservatives at all. It isn't virginity we've been discussing, but stupidity wrt sexual activity. I think that conservatives expect women to be more intelligent than the evidence suggests is the reality of the situation.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
But they aren't. Obviously. So your point is what should be instead of what is actually happening. That is what makes it ridiculous.
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That is a problem then, and it should change.

Women need to be more careful and selective with their bodies and their sexuality, as do men.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gathomas88 said:
That is a problem then, and it should change.

Women need to be more careful and selective with their bodies and their sexuality, as do men.
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Unrealistic. There are ALWAYS going to be irresponsible people. There always have been and there always will be. This is because of a variety of issues, and none of them have to have anything to do with intelligence.
 
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