Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room?

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

vesper said:

I found my spouse to be invaluable during labor. He kept track of the contractions, coached me to breath, rubbed my back during hard contractions, wiped my face with a cool cloth, and the look in his eyes of how much he wished he could take the pain from me if he could was priceless. I'll never forget how excited he would get when he first saw the head and discovered the baby had hair.

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My sister was actually a much bigger help than my husband. Not that I didn't appreciate him being there for that extra. It was just easier for my sister to help me.

My husband was very happy and excited to hold our child. He did find it amusing though when I commented that I thought I delivered an Alien baby. And I thought he was going to punch one or more of the doctors after they told me to finally stop trying to push for a few minutes so that the 5 of them could decide what would work best at helping me deliver after bringing a tray full of instruments into the room. He absolutely hated seeing me in pain.

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

polgara said:

I had a woman ob/gyn. She and I both didn't care if my husband was in the room or not, but he felt he would just be in the way, and opted not to be there. That's probably for the best, since there were times during the labor, especially with my first child, that I entertained thoughts about killing him! :lamo: After my son was delivered, he came with the biggest bunch of roses I had ever seen, and we celebrated starting a family. He and the other dads were out there pacing the floor, and he told me that was one of the worst periods of time he had ever spent, since he felt helpless to help. The old saying about "if men had the babies, they would only have one" is probably true! :shock:

Greetings, Vesper. :2wave:

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And what if you knew this about your husband and didn't want him in the room with you for that reason. Do you think it's appropriate that he be able to be there regardless of your wishes?

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:

And what if you knew this about your husband and didn't want him in the room with you for that reason. Do you think it's appropriate that he be able to be there regardless of your wishes?

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No I don't! The mother-to-be's wishes take precedence, IMO. Can you imagine how the Queens of old must have felt knowing that every man in her administration felt they had the right to witness the birth of an heir to the throne? She had no choice in the matter, and I guess I understand the reason, but talk about being on display when you're stressed and in pain! Sheesh!

Greetings, ChrisL. :2wave:

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

I witnessed the birth of my son and, personally, I wish this ban on men in the birthing room was universally applied, regardless of the mother's wishes to include her husband. What has been seen cannot be unseen.

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

tecoyah said:

Would you be comfortable with an ex watching you get a colonoscopy? What if you specifically stated you did not want here there, but they invited her in anyway?

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Excellent point, and one I also thought of, but I was thinking along the lines ot a man having a vasectomy. Both are unique to the sex involved, and personally I would not be interested in witnessing that medical procedure. Yikes!

Greetings, tecoyah. :2wave:

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

tecoyah said:

Would you be comfortable with an ex watching you get a colonoscopy?

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Hell yeah! The bitch deserves to have to watch my asshole on a big screen!

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

It shouldn't be a legal issue. If you are having kids with someone the two of you should be able to work this out on your own or you shouldn't be having kids with that person.

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Tucker Case said:

I witnessed the birth of my son and, personally, I wish this ban on men in the birthing room was universally applied, regardless of the mother's wishes to include her husband. What has been seen cannot be unseen.

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Maybe you could file a PTSD lawsuit? :lol:

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

roguenuke said:

Actually this is kinda funny because it suggests that men might even get a very mild form of (what sounds like to me) PTSD from watching childbirth, especially their loved one going through it.

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That wouldn't surprise me at all. I think the OBGYN in the article is probably reaching a bit with his conclusions (sounds kind of like some grouchy old fart pissing on about the 'good old days' when doctors had absolute control over every aspect of the birthing process, to be frank), but labor is honestly pretty damn freaky.

A relatively smooth birth might not be all that bad, but a hard one would likely be rather traumatic to watch. Just watching a video of an operative delivery (along the lines of what you described having) was more than enough to weird me the Hell out for a few weeks.

I couldn't imagine watching it happen to someone I was personally involved with.

However, as Vesper pointed out...

vesper said:

I found my spouse to be invaluable during labor. He kept track of the contractions, coached me to breath, rubbed my back during hard contractions, wiped my face with a cool cloth, and the look in his eyes of how much he wished he could take the pain from me if he could was priceless. I'll never forget how excited he would get when he first saw the head and discovered the baby had hair.

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There is a flip side to these things as well. The husband actually can play some beneficial role.

He simply has to have something to do and some idea of what's going on, so he's not hanging around like a clueless third wheel.

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:

Maybe you could file a PTSD lawsuit? :lol:

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I should. There should be some sort of warning given when it's a forceps birth.

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gathomas88 said:

That wouldn't surprise me at all. I think the OBGYN in the article is probably reaching a bit with his conclusions (sounds kind of like some grouchy old fart pissing on about the 'good old days' when doctors had absolute control over every aspect of the birthing process, to be frank), but labor is honestly pretty damn freaky.

A relatively smooth birth might not be all that bad, but a hard one would likely be rather traumatic to watch. Just watching a video of an operative delivery (along the lines of what you described having) was more than enough to weird me the Hell out for a few weeks.

I couldn't imagine watching it happen to someone I was personally involved with.

However, as Vesper pointed out...



There is a flip side to these things as well. The husband actually can play some beneficial role.

He simply has to have something to do and some idea of what's going on, so he's not hanging around like a clueless third wheel.

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I think the doctors and nurses would tell you to get the hell out of the way and zip it. :2razz:

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:

I think the doctors and nurses would tell you to get the hell out of the way and zip it. :2razz:

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Oh, they can try. They can try.

We Thomas men have never been known for bowing to "authoritah" especially well. :lamo

My father actually loves to tell the story how badly he pissed all the nurses off when my sister was being born. They left her under a heat lamp for too long after delivery, and her back was starting to burn.

Figuring "what the Hell," he picked her up, swaddled her in a bunch of blankets, and kept her warm the "old fashioned" way.

My mom kind of just shrugged the whole thing off, but the staff were apparently livid. :lol:

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gathomas88 said:

Oh, they can try. They can try.

We Thomas men have never been known for bowing to "authoritah" especially well. :lamo

My father actually loves to tell the story how badly he pissed all the nurses off when my sister was being born. They left her under a heat lamp for too long, and her back was starting to burn.

Figuring "what the Hell," he picked her up, swaddled her in a bunch of blankets, and kept her warm the "old fashioned" way.

My mom kind of just shrugged the whole thing off, but the staff were apparently livid. :lol:

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I think that's kind of cute that your dad was such a concerned father. :lol: Still though, you try to "take charge" in the delivery room, and they would probably throw you out. They have a system and they aren't keen on being told how to do their jobs. That might be just another reason why a woman might choose to not invite her SO into the delivery room with her. Not for anything hateful at all. However, personally, if the dad can handle it, I would prefer for him to be present for support . . . if we were still on good terms. In the OP here though, that's apparently not the case, so I can feel for a woman who has some guy (her EX) trying to force himself upon her. I think the most important part for the new dad is to be able to hold his newborn baby. That is how the bonding process is started, not so much watching the child be born but the physical contact afterwards.

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Tucker Case said:

I should. There should be some sort of warning given when it's a forceps birth.

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You poor thing! :lol:

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:

I think that's kind of cute that your dad was such a concerned father. :lol: Still though, you try to "take charge" in the delivery room, and they would probably throw you out. They have a system and they aren't keen on being told how to do their jobs. That might be just another reason why a woman might choose to not invite her SO into the delivery room with her. Not for anything hateful at all. However, personally, if the dad can handle it, I would prefer for him to be present for support . . . if we were still on good terms. In the OP here though, that's apparently not the case, so I can feel for a woman who has some guy (her EX) trying to force himself upon her. I think the most important part for the new dad is to be able to hold his newborn baby. That is how the bonding process is started, not so much watching the child be born but the physical contact afterwards.

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I agree. After a certain point, you really have to assume the doctors know what they're doing and hope for the best.

However, I would probably speak up if it looked like they were going against what had been agreed upon before the delivery, and could not offer a justifiable reason for doing so.

Additionally, there are ways to "hedge your bets" in this regard as well. Even in a hospital environment where the doctors are technically "in charge," many establishments will actually allow you to hire a specially trained midwife or doula to coach a woman through delivery and offer "second opinions" on the doctor's suggestions. I've even heard of them having some amount of success in talking panicky doctors out of C-sections in the past.

It's kind of the same principle as writing "this leg" in sharpie on the limb that's scheduled to be operated on before going under the knife, just to make sure that they don't get confused and perform surgery on a healthy limb instead.

Sure, the doctors will probably get it right. Why take unnecessary chances though? :shrug:

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

roguenuke said:

As for child support, if my husband and I were ever to split up, we would almost certainly share custody and our earning potential is right around the same amount and we will have added relatively the same amount in the future to raising our children, which are key determining factors usually in determining child support. If the courts decided that I deserved child support vice my husband, then I would ensure it went toward my sons, just as I would not have any issue paying him should I be the one making more.

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Child custody is another uphill battle for men where they are not given the privileged rights as women. Even today when both parents have careers, there is a bias against the male gaining custody in a divorce. She's often at fault for the divorce and still ends up with the kids. The BS that a child needs a mother more than a father is getting old. They need a father just as much and it is damn time this bias in the courts stops.

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

vesper said:

Child custody is another uphill battle for men where they are not given the privileged rights as women. Even today when both parents have careers, there is a bias against the male gaining custody in a divorce. She's often at fault for the divorce and still ends up with the kids. The BS that a child needs a mother more than a father is getting old. They need a father just as much and it is damn time this bias in the courts stops.

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As soon as men start dieing in child birth, they can have equal rights.
That being said, there is way too much bias against men in the courts.

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

vesper said:

Child custody is another uphill battle for men where they are not given the privileged rights as women. Even today when both parents have careers, there is a bias against the male gaining custody in a divorce. She's often at fault for the divorce and still ends up with the kids. The BS that a child needs a mother more than a father is getting old. They need a father just as much and it is damn time this bias in the courts stops.

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I agree, that in some cases, there is a bias.

However, as many have pointed out, I believe that is starting to change. Change doesn't occur overnight, and as we discussed earlier, there were reasons for such bias back in the "olden days." Usually the moms stayed home with the kids and the dads worked. Now that family dynamics are changing, so are the results of custody battles.

Of course we will always have those more "traditional" type judges that believe the child belongs with the mother no matter what, but I know of several men who have full custody of their children, and statistics also show a change.

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:

You poor thing! :lol:

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I often tell my wife that I was the person who endured the most hardship during our son's birth. :2razz:

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

DA60 said:

THe judge summed it up:

'NPR's Jennifer Ludden explains, "The judge ruled that requiring the father's presence would pose 'unwarranted strain' on the mother."
"It's just safer in general to have people the mother is most comfortable with to be in the room there with her."'

Who cares what the 'rights' of the father are...ALL that should matter is the successful delivery of their child.

As I said, if the mother is sane, then whatever makes her more comfortable should be the ONLY consideration...because the more comfortable she is , the better chance of a safe delivery of their child.

I do not even begin to care what some whinny Dad wants...my only concern - in this case - is the child.


I mean what a ding dong this guy is. Obviously if the only way she will allow him in is with a court order, then a 2 year old can figure out this will make her much more nervous/stressed - which could hurt her chances of a successful delivery.

And since she does not want him there - he is obviously not going to be coaching her or doing ANYTHING useful. SO what is to be gained? Some sentimental nonsense.

Has this guy never heard of a video camera? He can film the whole thing and see/hear every second of it.

Is the child going to care one way or the other - no. IS there any way possible his presence - in this situation - can make things go more smoothly? Of course not.

The only person this matters to is the selfish father...who clearly cares more about his 'rights' then the healthy delivery of his child.

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Actually I agree with you in full. It was a joke post because I thought Bruce Eden's wording was funny. Oh well.

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Tucker Case said:

I often tell my wife that I was the person who endured the most hardship during our son's birth. :2razz:

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She must love you very much! :lol: You are still alive, and that says a lot about her!

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

tacomancer said:

medical necessity (including the mother's mental well being) trumps the desire of the father to see the baby being born.

I think the judge got it wrong, it has nothing to do with privacy in my book, except so much as that privacy has to do with the mother's emotional as well as physical well being.

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No he didn't, he's not a doctor. He ruled on the law, and it was about privacy. They'd have to do an evaluation to prove that the husband in the room was causing mental/physical suffering.

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

polgara said:

Excellent point, and one I also thought of, but I was thinking along the lines ot a man having a vasectomy. Both are unique to the sex involved, and personally I would not be interested in witnessing that medical procedure. Yikes!

Greetings, tecoyah. :2wave:

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Hola polgara.....and NO you would not wish to be there....hell, I didn't want to be either.

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

tacomancer said:

medical necessity (including the mother's mental well being) trumps the desire of the father to see the baby being born.

I think the judge got it wrong, it has nothing to do with privacy in my book, except so much as that privacy has to do with the mother's emotional as well as physical well being.

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Well, let's just say, purely for the sake of argument, that women are preventing fathers by the tens of thousands from being allowed into the delivery room, and not this one isolated case that's causing certain people to flip the ever loving hell out. The problem is, is there really the time, manpower and resources to do a mental and medical evaluation for every woman about to go into labor in order to determine if the father being present would be a cause for concern? Privacy laws are much tidier and, in my opinion much less dehumanizing than being forced to argue that someone shouldn't be in the delivery room with them. Personally, if I were about to undergo surgery, I wouldn't want to have to defend my claims that my exgirlfriend shouldn't be in the operating room with me because she makes me uncomfortable. Why should her insistence on being there suddenly be my problem?

Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

vesper said:

Child custody is another uphill battle for men where they are not given the privileged rights as women. Even today when both parents have careers, there is a bias against the male gaining custody in a divorce. She's often at fault for the divorce and still ends up with the kids. The BS that a child needs a mother more than a father is getting old. They need a father just as much and it is damn time this bias in the courts stops.

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You are showing your bias for saying "she is often at fault for the divorce". This is a viewpoint based almost certainly on either personal bias or just the hardcore stats of who initiates divorce, without looking at the reasoning behind why they are initiating divorce. Some people just should not be together. I would say that most likely it is about even for who is at fault for divorces between men and women, even factoring in those marriages where both could be said to have equal fault in the separation/divorce.

And I've already said that I agree that courts favor mothers over fathers when it comes to child custody, and that is wrong. But it is also a very complicated issue, particularly when you have two people who are both pretty good parents and they may not even end up settling in the same state and the children have to go to school and cannot have their lives completely uprooted every few weeks or months just to give both parents equal time. There are so many things that go into child custody that it is unfair to believe that it should be 50/50, especially given that even today more women take on more of the childrearing responsibilities than men even when the relationship is good. Sure, it needs to be looked at better in many cases, but it can't change overnight and expecting it to is attempting to trivialize the issue altogether. This issue is simply not as easy as "well more mothers get custody of their children than fathers". While this is true, and this needs to be looked into, it is also true that more mothers are the primary caregivers in their homes. And it appears like joint legal custody is on the rise as well (although I don't think they have any really good statistics on this).

 - The Future of Children -