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Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room?

So do you think the father has a legal right to see his baby born or be in the room?


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Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

If out-of-wedlock sex was a big issue to conservatives, there wouldn't be many conservatives at all. It isn't virginity we've been discussing, but stupidity wrt sexual activity. I think that conservatives expect women to be more intelligent than the evidence suggests is the reality of the situation.

It is a big issue with many conservatives. It is a popular conservative religious belief that sex out of wedlock is a sin.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

There was always a greater amount unplanned pregnancies in poor populations. It's a given that if you have a poor population that you will have higher birthrates and many of those born will be unplanned. I'm not here to talk about how I find disagreement with government imposed child support, but there is little doubt it does nothing to fight against any sort of problems in society. The fact remains that if all you have is "I have government force to equalize the situation" then your argument is complete tripe. Women are are always going to be more inclined to concern themselves with pregnancy than men and it's why the situation hasn't really changed all that much even after child support laws.

Aren't you also pro life? You don't leave women with very many options do you? Basically, you believe that if a woman has sex with a man and gets pregnant, she is SOL if she can't afford it? Or do you think society should be forced to pay for that child?

Oh, and not only is the mom SOL, but the children as well. Screw them all, right? As long as you can play and not have to pay?
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

It is a big issue with many conservatives. It is a popular conservative religious belief that sex out of wedlock is a sin.

You are referring to a small segment of conservatives as a whole. I don't know many conservatives, even the religious ones, who get worked up about the sex-before-marriage issue. Most of them are fiscally conservative, rather than socially so.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

It is a big issue with many conservatives. It is a popular conservative religious belief that sex out of wedlock is a sin.
What the hell does that have to do with women taking responsibility for her own body by protecting it from unwanted pregnancies? Since she is the one left to carry the child, go through labor, you would think she would be more willing to guard against it. Instead too many act like feckless airheads one brick shy of a full load and then want to claim equality? Hell she's proving she can't even take care of herself!!!!!!!
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Unrealistic.

Not really. These kinds of problems were far less common in the past than they are today.

The problem is our current culture, and the ways in which it encourages people (and young people in particular) to misbehave.

There are ALWAYS going to be irresponsible people.

True, but the fact of the matter remains that irresponsibility of the type under discussion here is more common today than it was in the past.

Our society has changed to make sexual irresponsibility more socially acceptable, and that change has not been for the better.

This is because of a variety of issues, and none of them have to have anything to do with intelligence.

Well, no. Again, it's culture more than anything else.

A lot of people these days simply aren't being raised to take these kinds of issues seriously, and it shows in the trouble they get themselves into.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Not really. These kinds of problems were far less common in the past than they are today.

The problem is our current culture, and the ways in which it encourages people (and young people in particular) to misbehave.



True, but irresponsibility of the type under discussion here was less common in the past than it iks today.

Our society has changed to make sexual irresponsibility more socially acceptable, and that change has not been for the better.



Well, no. Again, it's culture more than anything else.

A lot of people these days simply aren't being raised to take these kinds of issues seriously, and it shows in the trouble they get themselves into.

I disagree. I think that these things are just more out in the open now. Women have always been sexual, just afraid to express that in the past for OBVIOUS reasons.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Thin ice, boy-o. ;)

Physically, most women are weaker in certain aspects.

Mentally, you don't stand a chance.

We can resolve this...

 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

What the hell does that have to do with women taking responsibility for her own body by protecting it from unwanted pregnancies? Since she is the one left to carry the child, go through labor, you would think she would be more willing to guard against it. Instead too many act like feckless airheads one brick shy of a full load and then want to claim equality? Hell she's proving she can't even take care of herself!!!!!!!

I was having a side conversation with another poster. Is that okay with you? And the POINT is that people like you have unrealistic expectations. Of course, young people think they are invincible. That is very common among teenagers. Some of them really do think that won't happen to THEM and that it only happens to other people.

Like I said, gender has nothing to do with how intelligent a person is or how good of a decision-maker a person is. There are WAY too many variables to think in such simplistic terms. And both parties who participated in sex (especially unprotected) are responsible for the results. Just because it effects one person more than another doesn't make that person more responsible for the results.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Instead too many act like feckless airheads one brick shy of a full load and then want to claim equality? Hell she's proving she can't even take care of herself!!!!!!!

Exactly. Somehow, I have trouble believing that early in the women's rights movement, the women who championed the cause really envisioned that women would try to blame their own mistakes on men or on nature, ignorance, forgetfulness, or anything else. I think that they truly believed that women were equal, and should act as such, and should make sound, intelligent decisions with their own bodies, rather than trying to come up with reasons to justify being negligent with their own bodies.

I was a teenager when much of that movement was in full swing. I felt empowered, and like I could do anything I wanted, and do it well. I was proud that I could take control of my own body, and exert my own will to protect myself, rather than being at the mercy of my whims, moods, or those of one of my male peers.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Exactly. Somehow, I have trouble believing that early in the women's rights movement, the women who championed the cause really envisioned that women would try to blame their own mistakes on men or on nature, ignorance, forgetfulness, or anything else. I think that they truly believed that women were equal, and should act as such, and should make sound, intelligent decisions with their own bodies, rather than trying to comes up with reasons to justify being negligent with their own bodies.

Not exactly. She is so off base and simplistic, it's not even funny. Like I said, there are too many variables involved in good decision-making skills to assign it to a particular gender. That is so ridiculous, it's like a joke or something.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

I disagree. I think that these things are just more out in the open now. Women have always been sexual, just afraid to express that in the past for OBVIOUS reasons.

As I've pointed out time and again, this simply isn't the case. People in the past married young, stayed married, and didn't go out of their way to "play the field" sexually before settling down.

They did this specifically because they didn't want to risk unwanted pregnancies and the social stigma they carried.

Prior to the mid twentieth century, any guy looking for an "easy lay" would most likely have no other recourse than to turn to a prostitute.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

As I've pointed out time and again, this simply isn't the case. People in the past married young, stayed married, and didn't go out of their way to "play the field" sexually before settling down.

They did this specifically because they didn't want to risk unwanted pregnancies and the social stigma they carried.

Prior to the mid twentieth century, any guy looking for an "easy lay" would most likely have no other recourse than to turn to a prostitute.

You are wrong and have been proven wrong in MANY different threads MANY different times. The FACT that there were prostitutes at all defies your logic.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

You are wrong and have been proven wrong in MANY different threads MANY different times. The FACT that there were prostitutes at all defies your logic.

Not once have I been proven wrong on this claim, Chris. Not once.

The facts, I'm afraid, are on my side here.

Social Change: The Sexual Revolution

sexual partners.jpg

I'm sorry, but the truth of the matter really is that our ancestors simply were a lot smarter when it comes to sex than we are. :shrug:
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

As I've pointed out time and again, this simply isn't the case. People in the past married young, stayed married, and didn't go out of their way to "play the field" sexually before settling down.

They did this specifically because they didn't want to risk unwanted pregnancies and the social stigma they carried.

Prior to the mid twentieth century, any guy looking for an "easy lay" would most likely have no other recourse than to turn to a prostitute.

I just want to point out that there are a MULTITUDE of stories out there from the Victorian era about promiscuity, adultery, and all KINDS of sordid affairs happening. People were just better at keeping "secrets" back then. Women who were pregnant out of wedlock were sent away to "boarding school."
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Well if it was on your mind and you engaged in sex anyway, you are one of the people they are talking about. Sex out of wedlock, a big no-no to conservatives you know. ;)


Todays' society has certainly gotten more permissive in their attitude toward sexuality. It used to be that a girl was sent to visit someone out of state for a while, before she started showing. Everyone knew the real reason, though, but it did avoid a scandal for the family, so it was accepted. Dishonest and hypocritical? Maybe, but that's the way things were back then. Hollywood has had a big influence on making things seem normal that never would have accepted 30 years ago.

Greetings, ChrisL. :2wave:
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Not once have I been proven wrong on this claim, Chris. Not once.

The facts, I'm afraid, are on my side here.

Social Change: The Sexual Revolution

View attachment 67163624

I'm sorry, but the truth of the matter really is that our ancestors simply were a lot smarter when it comes to sex than we are. :shrug:

It's more out in the open, there are MORE people and we are more diverse. That is why. LOL!
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Not silly at all. Protecting your own body is the only intelligent choice to make. I expect women to be smarter than rocks.

Me too and as evidenced by this thread...that kind of stupidity makes us all look bad.

That's why I call it out when I see it as well. I dont want to be lumped together with them. I dont excuse it.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

I was having a side conversation with another poster. Is that okay with you? And the POINT is that people like you have unrealistic expectations. Of course, young people think they are invincible. That is very common among teenagers. Some of them really do think that won't happen to THEM and that it only happens to other people.

Like I said, gender has nothing to do with how intelligent a person is or how good of a decision-maker a person is. There are WAY too many variables to think in such simplistic terms. And both parties who participated in sex (especially unprotected) are responsible for the results. Just because it effects one person more than another doesn't make that person more responsible for the results.

Since when is it unrealistic to expect women to be responsible for their bodies from pregnancy and disease? Her feckless behavior is costing all of us in increased entitlements. I bet you expect daddy to pay for the next 18 years whether he wanted the kid or not.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Todays' society has certainly gotten more permissive in their attitude toward sexuality. It used to be that a girl was sent to visit someone out of state for a while, before she started showing. Everyone knew the real reason, though, but it did avoid a scandal for the family, so it was accepted. Dishonest and hypocritical? Maybe, but that's the way things were back then. Hollywood has had a big influence on making things seem normal that never would have accepted 30 years ago.

Greetings, ChrisL. :2wave:

Perhaps, but it still doesn't absolve either party of responsibility. Both are equally responsible for the results of unprotected sex, whether it be an STD or a baby.

Edit: Oops, sorry. Greetings to you too Polgara! :)
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

I just want to point out that there are a MULTITUDE of stories out there from the Victorian era about promiscuity, adultery, and all KINDS of sordid affairs happening. People were just better at keeping "secrets" back then. Women who were pregnant out of wedlock were sent away to "boarding school."

It's more out in the open, there are MORE people and we are more diverse. That is why. LOL!

No, it's really not.

Again, Chris. The simple fact of the matter is that "hook up bars" and "casual sex" are largely modern inventions. People in the past were not running around "getting laid" left and right without commitment or the expectation of it.

They simply wouldn't have had time for it.

The closest they would have gotten to any of that would have been prostitution, which was an activity largely limited to urban areas, and in which only an extremely tiny minority of women ever engaged in the first place.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Since when is it unrealistic to expect women to be responsible for their bodies from pregnancy and disease? Her feckless behavior is costing all of us in increased entitlements. I bet you expect daddy to pay for the next 18 years whether he wanted the kid or not.

The man is just as responsible for protecting himself. She cannot get pregnant without him and he cannot get her pregnant without her. They share equal responsibility because both are aware of what they are doing and what could be the result. Your argument is very simplistic too because, as I said, there are MANY other variables to consider. You are assuming that everyone is a perfect person.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

No, it's really not.

Again, Chris. The simple fact of the matter is that "hook up bars" and "casual sex" are largely modern inventions. People in the past were not running around "getting laid" left and right without commitment or the expectation of it.

They simply wouldn't have had time for it.

The closest they would have gotten to any of that would have been prostitution, which was an activity largely limited to urban areas, and in which only an extremely tiny minority of women ever engaged in the first place.

I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. And if that is the case, it is because society is changing. You can cry about the sky falling all day, I'm not buying that.

That doesn't change the facts that men are just as responsible for an unwanted/unplanned pregnancy as the woman. They know full well what they are doing and the possible results. They are just as responsible for protecting themselves.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Sperm is PART of a man's body too. Your argument is silly and gender biased.

As men are finding out...to their detriment...that sperm is no longer part of their bodies and they no longer have control over it once they hand it off to a woman.

That's why more control would be smarter, on their parts. But they are taking a couple of decades longer to adjust to that than I would have expected. Well, I guess it takes a long time to overcome millenia of ingrained behavior and expectations. :)
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

As men are finding out...to their detriment...that sperm is no longer part of their bodies and they no longer have control over it once they hand it off to a woman.

That's why more control would be smarter, on their parts. But they are taking a couple of decades longer to adjust to that than I would have expected. Well, I guess it takes a long time to overcome millenia of ingrained behavior and expectations. :)

That is a VERY good point.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

I revert back to an original point from a few days ago: the answer to the fix is "more blowjobs by women".

Can't knock up her mouth.
 
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