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Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room?

So do you think the father has a legal right to see his baby born or be in the room?

  • Yes, he has a legal right and my opinion agrees with that.

    Votes: 7 12.7%

  • Yes, he has a legal right and in my opinion he shouldnt.

    Votes: 1 1.8%

  • No, he has no legal right and my opinion agrees with that.

    Votes: 35 63.6%

  • No, he has no legal right and in my opinion he should.

    Votes: 2 3.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 7 12.7%

  • I Love Chicken Parm

    Votes: 9 16.4%
  • Total voters
    55
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

vesper said:
Currently he can't go into the delivery room without the woman's consent. Even without the courts, the hospital would not allow it. Maybe some day he will have the privilege to watch the birth of his child via a closed circuit TV. What I am arguing is how jilted the laws are against fathers and need to change. And slowly but surely fathers are gaining their overdue rights. But it is far from being fair. There's legislation coming forth in different states that would force the mother to notify the father in advance of an abortion. The man can't stop it but can then legally sue her for damages. There's been an increase in paternal grandparents being awarded custody of their grandchildren. There is other legislation that has been proposed, I believe in Utah and Michigan where a woman can not give up a child for adoption unless she has the consent of the father allowing him/his parents custody of the child. The whole "my body my choice" as a right is not constitutional when it denies paternal rights to fathers.
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If the father was giving birth and the mother was denied attendance I would have exactly the same opinion. Has nothing to do with discriminating against men, there is no 'right' involved here.....this issue is about him trying to force his desires over the desires of the woman...who is possibly anticipating undergoing all sorts of Hell in there (I know I would!)

She doesnt like him, doesnt trust him. We dont know what he did to her...you seem to think the breakup was all her fault...that is rarely the case in relationships.

It's her procedure, her life on the line, and I see no reason not to believe she has the best interests of the baby's welfare in mind either. Why assume that? His desire to be present does not supersede her need to be absolutely focused on a healthy delivery.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

vesper said:
It isn't hatred of all women. It is speaking out for what he sees as an injustice. You know for the past 100 years women learned the only way to get rights was to speak up and fight for them. And when they did they were called hateful man haters etc. If you truly believe in equality among the sexes, then you must be insistent that both are treated fairly and not be a cheerleader for just your own gender.
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But this case has nothing to do with gender inequality. It has to do with patient privacy rights and the health and welfare of the patient.

I have said this multiple times. There are a lot of things to continue to fight for with mens rights as they pertain to parenthood, this just is not one of them.

If he wanted in, he needed to be someone that would help the birthing process and be someone she perceived as supportive and not a stressor in the situation. Not sure if that was ever possible. They are the only ones that know the intricacies of their relationship.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

vesper said:
It isn't hatred of all women. It is speaking out for what he sees as an injustice. You know for the past 100 years women learned the only way to get rights was to speak up and fight for them. And when they did they were called hateful man haters etc. If you truly believe in equality among the sexes, then you must be insistent that both are treated fairly and not be a cheerleader for just your own gender.
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:lamo You've just got to laugh at the ridiculousness in this statement. YOU are wrong. As a woman you should know and understand that delivering a child is a personal experience. Are you honestly saying that YOU would want someone you disliked there with you?
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

year2late said:
But this case has nothing to do with gender inequality. It has to do with patient privacy rights and the health and welfare of the patient.

I have said this multiple times. There are a lot of things to continue to fight for with mens rights as they pertain to parenthood, this just is not one of them.

If he wanted in, he needed to be someone that would help the birthing process and be someone she perceived as supportive and not a stressor in the situation. Not sure if that was ever possible. They are the only ones that know the intricacies of their relationship.
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I'm STUNNED that some people (especially women) cannot understand this simple concept and are trying to turn this into a "war of the sexes." It's utterly ridiculous. It could be the woman's MOTHER, and it doesn't matter. If she does not want a person present during her own medical procedure, that is HER right. There is no right for another person to be present during ANY medical procedure for another person without their consent.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Lursa said:
If the father was giving birth and the mother was denied attendance I would have exactly the same opinion. Has nothing to do with discriminating against men, there is no 'right' involved here.....this issue is about him trying to force his desires over the desires of the woman...who is possibly anticipating undergoing all sorts of Hell in there (I know I would!)
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As the law stands now that is correct. He has no right in the delivery room. Not even a married spouse. But if the right case came before a judge worded just right, that could change.
She doesnt like him, doesnt trust him. We dont know what he did to her...you seem to think the breakup was all her fault...that is rarely the case in relationships.
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Agree we do not know their circumstances. But I never claimed it was her fault. However, I find the privacy right a pretty weak argument. What I have stated is if she thinks having him in the delivery room is stressful then how is she going to handle visitation of the child for the years to come? Don't mistake being an advocate for father's rights as automatically assuming the woman is guilty.
It's her procedure, her life on the line, and I see no reason not to believe she has the best interests of the baby's welfare in mind either. Why assume that? His desire to be present does not supersede her need to be absolutely focused on a healthy delivery.
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Maybe her interests were for the baby's welfare and then again maybe they were vindictive.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gipper said:
Just as I thought - us vs. them.
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A woman knows what going through childbirth is like. You, not so much. All you can do is imagine. Take it how you want. I don't really care. Judging by ALL of your posts on this topic, you are completely ignorant about childbirth and women.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

vesper said:
As the law stands now that is correct. He has no right in the delivery room. Not even a married spouse. But if the right case came before a judge worded just right, that could change.

Agree we do not know their circumstances. But I never claimed it was her fault. However, I find the privacy right a pretty weak argument. What I have stated is if she thinks having him in the delivery room is stressful then how is she going to handle visitation of the child for the years to come? Don't mistake being an advocate for father's rights as automatically assuming the woman is guilty.

Maybe her interests were for the baby's welfare and then again maybe they were vindictive.
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Lame argument. Two COMPLETELY different situations and NOT comparable. Talk about a "weak" argument. :shock:

Laughable that anyone would think medical privacy is a "weak" argument. It most certainly is NOT.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
A woman knows what going through childbirth is like. You, not so much. All you can do is imagine. Take it how you want. I don't really care.
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I'll have to be sure to remember this post the next time I am debating a military issue with someone who has never served. ;)
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Maybe THIS will help some realize how important the medical community takes patient privacy matters. A doctor cannot even release information about a patient to another doctor without express written consent from that patient, and you just want to allow people into the delivery room against a woman's consent? That is just NEVER going to happen. That would violate EVERYTHING.

Medical privacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

vesper said:
As the law stands now that is correct. He has no right in the delivery room. Not even a married spouse. But if the right case came before a judge worded just right, that could change.

Agree we do not know their circumstances. But I never claimed it was her fault. However, I find the privacy right a pretty weak argument. What I have stated is if she thinks having him in the delivery room is stressful then how is she going to handle visitation of the child for the years to come? Don't mistake being an advocate for father's rights as automatically assuming the woman is guilty.

Maybe her interests were for the baby's welfare and then again maybe they were vindictive.
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What "right" would you base that on for the father that would supersede the woman's wishes which concern her life, her health, her privacy, and the life and health of the baby?

Re: privacy....having someone you dont like and *do not trust* seeing you all bloody, ripped open, sweating, screaming, ****ting yourself is just slightly different than meeting with and discussing your child's needs with your ex for visitation. Just slightly. A ridiculous comparison to the point of dishonesty.

Like I said before....how many women use the bathroom in front of their partners? Some? I guess. Not all...some of us find that's a big invasion of privacy.

And once again you bring up YOUR judgement while admitting you have no idea what her state of mind is. You CHOOSE to place vindictiveness ahead of her concern for the baby's welfare. Really? That's the more likely? Wow. ANd if she DOES feel that vindictive, it's ridiculous to think that he didnt give her good reason to feel that way.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
A woman knows what going through childbirth is like. You, not so much. All you can do is imagine. Take it how you want. I don't really care. Judging by ALL of your posts on this topic, you are completely ignorant about childbirth and women.
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As I recall, he thinks it is like having your appendix out. (which is done under general anesthesia):lamo
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
:lamo You've just got to laugh at the ridiculousness in this statement. YOU are wrong. As a woman you should know and understand that delivering a child is a personal experience. Are you honestly saying that YOU would want someone you disliked there with you?
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One could say it took two to create the child, therefore it is no longer a personal experience. You truly struggle with the concept of gender equality.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

OscarB63 said:
I'll have to be sure to remember this post the next time I am debating a military issue with someone who has never served. ;)
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What "military" issue would that be? That men cannot control themselves because they have to work with women in the military?
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

vesper said:
One could say it took two to create the child, therefore it is no longer a personal experience. You truly struggle with the concept of gender equality.
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This has NOTHING to do with the right to medical privacy. She is NOT keeping the child from him.

Good God! It does not mean that at all. He would be there to observe. There is absolutely no NEED for him to be there, and he would be more of a bother if she wishes for him to NOT be there. She has no choice but to be there.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Lursa said:
What "right" would you base that on for the father that would supersede the woman's wishes which concern her life, her health, her privacy, and the life and health of the baby?

Re: privacy....having someone you dont like and *do not trust* seeing you all bloody, ripped open, sweating, screaming, ****ting yourself is just slightly different than meeting with and discussing your child's needs with your ex for visitation. Just slightly. A ridiculous comparison to the point of dishonesty.

Like I said before....how many women use the bathroom in front of their partners? Some? I guess. Not all...some of us find that's a big invasion of privacy.

And once again you bring up YOUR judgement while admitting you have no idea what her state of mind is. You CHOOSE to place vindictiveness ahead of her concern for the baby's welfare. Really? That's the more likely? Wow. ANd if she DOES feel that vindictive, it's ridiculous to think that he didnt give her good reason to feel that way.
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They're all victims of the "evil" women.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
A woman knows what going through childbirth is like. You, not so much. All you can do is imagine. Take it how you want. I don't really care. Judging by ALL of your posts on this topic, you are completely ignorant about childbirth and women.
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I have a degree in Economics and I have to go to the Economics forum and watch some really dim bulbs post what they think is economics. If we're going to take inventory about everything we discuss, then I guess I won't find you on a whole lot of fora.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

vesper said:
One could say it took two to create the child, therefore it is no longer a personal experience. You truly struggle with the concept of gender equality.
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It's not remotely possible to make it equal. His life isnt in danger. He's not screaming in pain. He's not doing the absolute best job he can to obey the doctors' instructions and deliver a healthy baby.

If we could add those things to his 'shared experience' in the delivery room, sure, then I might change my view.

Oh wait, he can share one of those things: He can obey the doctors' instructions and leave so they and the mother can do their best to deliver a healthy baby.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Cardinal said:
No one calls me, say, a paedophile all the time, or a racist, or a mugger or a gangster, because if I was somebody probably would have mentioned it by now. Enough people call me another thing frequently enough to make me think it's not just coincidence. So if "everybody" is calling you a woman hater, it might be time to look inwards.
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Not everyone does, but its not at all rare for me to be called a woman hater because I challenge a woman on something she said or did. Women can be awful human beings just like men and if they want to be seen as equals then they have to expect I will call them out on it. I also get called a woman hater when I have a problem with something feminist are doing which I see as harmful in one way or another. My intent is never to hate on women, but to show my disapproval for whatever thing feminist are doing that I have a problem with. Honestly, I don't care anymore. I will say what I believe, and I will speak against hateful people and things I feel are harmful, and I don't care if those people I'm speaking against are men or women.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Henrin said:
Not everyone does, but its not at all rare for me to be called a woman hater because I challenge a woman on something she said or did. Women can be awful human beings just like men and if they want to be seen as equals than they have to expect I will call them out on it. I also get called a woman hater when I have a problem with something feminist are doing which I see as harmful in one way or another. My intent is never to hate on women, but to show my disapproval for whatever thing feminist are doing that I have a problem with. Honestly, I don't care anymore. I will say what I believe, and I will speak against hateful people and things I feel are harmful, and I don't care if those people I'm speaking against are men or women.
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When you call women you do not know "cum dumpster" because she made a decision, and you have no idea why she came to that decision but proceed to call her derogatory names anyways, it's a pretty safe bet that is a display of hatred towards women in general IMO. Some people want to automatically take away HER rights to medical privacy because of some personal feelings they have and conclusions they have jumped to because of THEIR own personal experiences without knowing any details.

AND the bottom line is she doesn't want him there. WHY is irrelevant when it comes to the health of her and the baby.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Gipper said:
It's not to me.
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It is to medical professionals, and that's what I'm talking about. The reason why she would be upset is not relevant, only that she be under the least stress as possible under these circumstances.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

year2late said:
But this case has nothing to do with gender inequality. It has to do with patient privacy rights and the health and welfare of the patient.

I have said this multiple times. There are a lot of things to continue to fight for with mens rights as they pertain to parenthood, this just is not one of them.

If he wanted in, he needed to be someone that would help the birthing process and be someone she perceived as supportive and not a stressor in the situation. Not sure if that was ever possible. They are the only ones that know the intricacies of their relationship.
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We will have to agree to disagree, as I see it as gender inequality. Even if the couple are married and he wants very much to be a part of the birth, if she says no, it's no. I find that very unfair.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

Lursa said:
It's not remotely possible to make it equal. His life isnt in danger. He's not screaming in pain. He's not doing the absolute best job he can to obey the doctors' instructions and deliver a healthy baby.

If we could add those things to his 'shared experience' in the delivery room, sure, then I might change my view.

Oh wait, he can share one of those things: He can obey the doctors' instructions and leave so they and the mother can do their best to deliver a healthy baby.
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Can we get any more melodramatic ? Jesus. Let's not forget her body was designed to do the deed. How many babies are born in the backseat of cab or car? How many like myself had the baby on a stretcher outside the damn delivery room for all passer bys to see? You want to talk about privacy? Every damn person around you at that point is a stranger.
 
Re: Do you think fathers have a legal right to see thier child born or be in the room

ChrisL said:
When you call women you do not know "cum dumpster" because she made a decision, and you have no idea why she came to that decision but proceed to call her derogatory names anyways, it's a pretty safe bet that is a display of hatred towards women in general IMO. Some people want to automatically take away HER rights to medical privacy because of some personal feelings they have and conclusions they have jumped to because of THEIR own personal experiences without knowing any details.

AND the bottom line is she doesn't want him there. WHY is irrelevant when it comes to the health of her and the baby.
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Meh, I always liked the term cum depository over cum dumpster.

I don't find it matters much unless of course we are talking about rape what her reason might be. Even if they don't get along a part of being a goddamn adult is being able to put stupid **** aside so as to respect each other. While he shouldn't have tried to force his way into the room by dragging her to court, she shouldn't have denied him access to the room. If they wanted to show they can work together a good starting point is when the baby is born. Anyone that truly finds her action were in the right here is in my opinion wrong.
 
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