• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

Do you want Obamacare to Fail


  • Total voters
    86

X Factor

Anti-Socialist
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
61,606
Reaction score
32,214
Location
El Paso Strong
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
Now, there's a decent argument that the failure of Obamacare could usher in something worse (or better, depending on your point of view - honestly, single payer scares the **** out of me). To be truthful, though, I'm not rooting for Obamacare. I didn't want it and the fact that "you could keep your insurance" had to be such a big part of getting support indicates to me, that a good many of us didn't want it and Obama knew that. Now, I don't know if it can ever fully go away, but presuming it could do you want Obamacare to fail?

Give me a minute to attach the poll.
 
Anything that forces people into commerce and has a long list of human right violations attached to it I want to fail.
 
Anything that forces people into commerce and has a long list of human right violations attached to it I want to fail.

"Human rights violations"???
 
I want reforms to work at least slightly better, regardless of what it is.
 
I don't want it to fail, but I can't think of such a unmitigated disaster of a law (more of it's implantation really) in recent history.
 
Now, there's a decent argument that the failure of Obamacare could usher in something worse (or better, depending on your point of view - honestly, single payer scares the **** out of me). To be truthful, though, I'm not rooting for Obamacare. I didn't want it and the fact that "you could keep your insurance" had to be such a big part of getting support indicates to me, that a good many of us didn't want it and Obama knew that. Now, I don't know if it can ever fully go away, but presuming it could do you want Obamacare to fail?

Give me a minute to attach the poll.

Honestly? I'm torn.

I'm a big 10th Amendment supporter and feel that anything like the PPACA should have been left to the states like the plan that the Obama Administration keeps comparing it to in Massachusetts. Would I support a similar state plan in my state; NC? No, not now. Before the PPACA I was leaning toward supporting a MA type plan for other states. But now? After seeing how impossible it is to have a one size fits all medical system I no longer support it here.

So I don't support it for the country on a federal level either.

What scares me worse is that once the political pendulum on health care begins swinging again that it may act more like a guillotine and kill all chances of reasonableness as well as the Constitution.

I vehemently appose single payer, and I'm scared as hell that that's where this is headed. I also feel that single payer was and is the end goal of the PPACA and its shortfalls. I feel that many of the shortfalls were intentional to help force the single payer issue to the forefront.

So again, I'm torn.

If it fails, which it looks as though it will, the alternative that appears to be the next step in the evolution of the debate is worse to me than the PPACA could be.

Yet, if it stays in place, it will require many changes (as some have already been enacted by decree by Obama) and those changes have the great possibility of devastating the health care system as a whole.

As a small business owner, I've had to make painful choices due to the PPACA. As a private citizen, the PPACA has cost me a tremendous amount of money; more than I paid for the same health care before the PPACA.

The first thing they need to change is the name; it doesn't provide 'patient protection' (with only one exception / preexisting conditions) and it damn sure doesn't, hasn't and will not provide 'affordable care' since deductibles and co-pays have increased exponentially (what happened to the average $2,500.00 per person savings?).

I'm torn, but I lean toward a reset and a new debate regarding certain parts that do work (preexisting conditions) and parts that were not included, such as buying insurance across state lines, that would increase competition and have a real chance of reducing costs by increasing the insurance pools.
 
i would hope it works, as I hope any reform results in an improvement over the status quo. That said I am rather skeptical of it working in the end, but I still want it to. The status quo was unsustainable. The ACA was passed to reform the healthcare system. Hopefully that reform works because the status quo was unsustainable.
 
Now, there's a decent argument that the failure of Obamacare could usher in something worse (or better, depending on your point of view - honestly, single payer scares the **** out of me). To be truthful, though, I'm not rooting for Obamacare. I didn't want it and the fact that "you could keep your insurance" had to be such a big part of getting support indicates to me, that a good many of us didn't want it and Obama knew that. Now, I don't know if it can ever fully go away, but presuming it could do you want Obamacare to fail?

Give me a minute to attach the poll.

No, I don't want it to fail. But I think it probably needs a good tweaking. Some things right off the top: lower the number of hours to 20 for considering an employee part-time; let religious organizations opt out of birth control and abortion coverage; I think coverage for mental health and addiction is going to have to be changed. I'm sure there are hundreds of regulations in the background that most of us know nothing about that need changing; and that'll probably happen eventually.

There is absolutely no way people could get coverage for pre-existing conditions without a mandate. That's why I support it. But for the life of me, I don't know why they didn't just fold everyone into Medicare. Maybe they will eventually.
 
No, I don't want it to fail. But I think it probably needs a good tweaking. Some things right off the top: lower the number of hours to 20 for considering an employee part-time; let religious organizations opt out of birth control and abortion coverage; I think coverage for mental health and addiction is going to have to be changed. I'm sure there are hundreds of regulations in the background that most of us know nothing about that need changing; and that'll probably happen eventually.

There is absolutely no way people could get coverage for pre-existing conditions without a mandate. That's why I support it. But for the life of me, I don't know why they didn't just fold everyone into Medicare. Maybe they will eventually.

I agree. Personally, I would rather take the money I am currently paying in health insurance premiums (and my employer pays as part of my compensation), and pay that in Medicare taxes to just extend it across the board. I doubt that would ever happen though.
 
I agree. Personally, I would rather take the money I am currently paying in health insurance premiums (and my employer pays as part of my compensation), and pay that in Medicare taxes to just extend it across the board. I doubt that would ever happen though.

I never understood why you guys need the government to do all your nanny stuff. That never made any sense to me.
 
It had to be mandatory for all Americans or it would fail. There is no way you can make it work without all funds going into the plan. The problems have cropped up daily and there's no easy solution. The program needs all the premiums to work and then it will always be on the verge of bankruptcy.
 
Now, there's a decent argument that the failure of Obamacare could usher in something worse (or better, depending on your point of view - honestly, single payer scares the **** out of me). To be truthful, though, I'm not rooting for Obamacare. I didn't want it and the fact that "you could keep your insurance" had to be such a big part of getting support indicates to me, that a good many of us didn't want it and Obama knew that. Now, I don't know if it can ever fully go away, but presuming it could do you want Obamacare to fail?

Give me a minute to attach the poll.

To fail ? Future tense? As yet it is not properly functioning so it seems to be failing from the start. I would like to see the program completely dismantled.

Thom Paine
 
I never understood why you guys need the government to do all your nanny stuff. That never made any sense to me.

So, you're OK with an insurance company doing your nanny stuff?
 
Right now I can choose health care companies, and they have their flaws but I prefer that choice to the DMV of health care. I really do not like the idea of govt involvement. It's bad enough as big as it is. I do prefer it fail and we figure out how to create a free market solution that empowers the consumer, rewards healthy people, and encourages great service.


I agree. Personally, I would rather take the money I am currently paying in health insurance premiums (and my employer pays as part of my compensation), and pay that in Medicare taxes to just extend it across the board. I doubt that would ever happen though.
 
Since you imply only two choices yes. I'd choose a for profit private enterprise over the government every time in the world of health care, retirement, education, housing, energy, car making, banking, etc. maybe not defense and worker safety.


So, you're OK with an insurance company doing your nanny stuff?
 
I never understood why you guys need the government to do all your nanny stuff. That never made any sense to me.

Because I am a realist. I see the world how it is, not some fantasy world. For example, you say you don't need a nanny state. Well, God forbid you get diagnosed with terminal cancer tomorrow, at some point you will be too sick to work and thus you will lose your insurance coverage. At that point, the hospital will sign you up for Medicaid so that your care is still paid for, and ultimately your end of life care / hospice will be covered. Thus if you were diagnosed with terminal cancer, libertarian or not, unless you are independently wealthy, you will end up on Medicaid at some point.

Healthcare is not like any other aspect of the economy in that its really not governed by the laws of supply and demand. If you need a life saving procedure you will get it regardless of how much it costs. You won't say "well that cancer treatment is just too expensive, so I will just die a slow and horrible death". Most people will be on either Medicare or Medicaid before they die. If you are old, then you will be on Medicare. If you are young and die as a result of a debilitating disease, then at some point you will be too sick to work and will end up on Medicaid. The only people that don't depend on Medicare or Medicaid at some point are those that are either independently wealthy or get hit by a bus or something.
 
Since you imply only two choices yes. I'd choose a for profit private enterprise over the government every time in the world of health care, retirement, education, housing, energy, car making, banking, etc. maybe not defense and worker safety.

I would go with free market in worker safety. Unions weren't doing all that bad before the government decided to meddle.
 
Because I am a realist. I see the world how it is, not some fantasy world. For example, you say you don't need a nanny state. Well, God forbid you get diagnosed with terminal cancer tomorrow, at some point you will be too sick to work and thus you will lose your insurance coverage. At that point, the hospital will sign you up for Medicaid so that your care is still paid for, and ultimately your end of life care / hospice will be covered. Thus if you were diagnosed with terminal cancer, libertarian or not, unless you are independently wealthy, you will end up on Medicaid at some point.

Healthcare is not like any other aspect of the economy in that its really not governed by the laws of supply and demand. If you need a life saving procedure you will get it regardless of how much it costs. You won't say "well that cancer treatment is just too expensive, so I will just die a slow and horrible death". Most people will be on either Medicare or Medicaid before they die. If you are old, then you will be on Medicare. If you are young and die as a result of a debilitating disease, then at some point you will be too sick to work and will end up on Medicaid. The only people that don't depend on Medicare or Medicaid at some point are those that are either independently wealthy or get hit by a bus or something.

Yes, yes, the government must meddle, get involved, or even take over an industry because the free market fails. Yeah, yeah, we heard that about a long series of things by now. Why don't you restate the argument for public education. You might notice it's almost exactly like what you just said.

I do like being signed up for things against my will though. Always nice.
 
It had to be mandatory for all Americans or it would fail. There is no way you can make it work without all funds going into the plan. The problems have cropped up daily and there's no easy solution. The program needs all the premiums to work and then it will always be on the verge of bankruptcy.

I don't know how true this is, but I heard on the radio today that around 800,000 people who signed up on the website have not paid their premiums.
 
Yes, yes, the government must meddle, get involved, or even take over an industry because the free market fails. Yeah, yeah, we heard that about a long series of things by now. Why don't you restate the argument for public education. You might notice it's almost exactly like what you just said.

I think the government should get out of a lot of areas. Basically, the only things I want the government really involved in is healthcare because it doesn't adhere to the laws of supply and demand (outside of completely elective procedures), environmental protection, and public education (although it obviously needs significant reform). The rest of it I could care less about.
 
Glad to see Chuck has a couple votes.
 
Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

If there was ever a credible proposal that could plausibly achieve what the ObamaCare scam purports to be intended to achieve—universal, affordable health coverage for everyone without any corresponding damage to the economy as a whole, or otherwise causing any harm that offsets the benefits—then I would certainly want such a proposal to succeed.

I do not believe that such is possible, and I certainly do not believe that the ObamaCare scam has any possible result but the opposite. It doesn't matter if I want the ObamaCare scam to succeed or fail. It doesn't matter what anyone else wants. There is no possible outcome other than that the ObamaCare scam is going to fail catastrophically. There is simply no way that it was ever possible for it to do otherwise. The best that I can hope is that this failure happens as swiftly as possible, and that the damage that it will cause will be as easy as possible to repair; and that it teaches this nation a vital and valuable lesson about allowing our corrupt and overbearing government to stick its nose that far into places where it has no business doing so.
 
This is always going to be the problem, who's going to pay for it? We know it has to be the middle class and all of them or it will be a total bust. Everybody should have figured that out when they shoved the bill through without it being read first.
 
No. I want it to succeed. Then i want people to ditch the for profit system all together.
 
Back
Top Bottom