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Do You Want "Obamacare" to Fail?

Do you want Obamacare to Fail


  • Total voters
    86
You really can't have property rights without the right to control and manage that property.


There's no doubt that Obama see's the health insurance companies as evil. He watched his mother die of cancer, while fighting insurance companies for coverage. He definitely has an axe to grind.

But let me ask you this, in between you and your medical providers (hospitals, clinics, doctors, medicine) are insurance companies, where do you think their profits come from? Are the medical providers paying them, are you paying them, or are both? I worked in the medical profession, before anything but Medicare was substantial, and not only did doctors make higher salaries but people had better care. It's strictly money centric now, with insurance companies making profit off other peoples coverage (misery).

Most of us end paying in our lifetime for other peoples catastrophic coverage. And if you don't die suddenly (uncommon), then you'll have to be eventually be covered yourself for those last months. Where's the money going to come from for everyone's heart disease and cancer treatments?
 
Helping working people get insurance isn't failure. I was hoping you would clarify.

It isn't about "helping working people get insurance". It's about a power grab and controlling the economy, which isn't working out so well now is it? If you honestly believe that the ACA was about "helping working people get insurance", you aren't paying attention.
 
Helping working people get insurance isn't failure. I was hoping you would clarify.
I know this...I stated that nobody should want a piece of legislation like the ACA, which is intended to help people, to fail. I recognize that helping working people get insurance isn't failure, which is why nobody should want it to fail.
 
I know this...I stated that nobody should want a piece of legislation like the ACA, which is intended to help people, to fail. I recognize that helping working people get insurance isn't failure, which is why nobody should want it to fail.

And I'm telling you, as clearly as I can, that getting insurance doesn't help them fail in any way. You have set up a false premise.
 
And I'm telling you, as clearly as I can, that getting insurance doesn't help them fail in any way. You have set up a false premise.
Cool, tell a strong ACA opponent this, not me.
 
Wanting such a massive program that so many millions now depend to fail strikes me as distinctly un-american. Now, i've wanted single payer all along, not this gift to HMOs, but for obamacare to fail an awful lot of suffering will have to happen first.
 
I want it to fail catastrophically (financially, not medically)...to teach people that big government NEVER works...it only makes things worse in the long run.

Try explaining that to the brits. Oh wait, they're completely in love with their single payer
 
I think this is a good example of why there can be difficulty dealing with the left (and I'm not talking about everyone on the left). Instead of dealing in the realities of problems that even Democrat politicians have acknowledged, to some, any disagreement is a character flaw or makes you sociopathic. There can be no compromise with crusaders.

Lol do i need to bust out the "You're either with us or against us" mantra that the right crusaders were so in love with for 8 years? Any disagreement made you a sociopath etc.
 
Try explaining that to the brits. Oh wait, they're completely in love with their single payer

Naturally...that's because that is the only system most of them have ever known.

Just look at the Soviet Union after it collapsed...people panic when they suddenly don't have the government teat to suckle.


IMO, there is no such thing as a large, peacetime, government program that is handled skillfully and efficiently...does not exist.
 
Lol do i need to bust out the "You're either with us or against us" mantra that the right crusaders were so in love with for 8 years? Any disagreement made you a sociopath etc.

Have no doubt, my friend. I have yet to find anything that applies exclusively to one "side".
 
No, I don't want it to fail but I also believe there's a better answer. For now it's the best we've ever had. Hopefully, it's shortfalls will prompt people to switch to (most likely) single payer.
 
This could be a real tuff one. Up for it or down against it.
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No, I don't want it to fail but I also believe there's a better answer. For now it's the best we've ever had. Hopefully, it's shortfalls will prompt people to switch to (most likely) single payer.

That would be a better choice.
 
No, I don't want it to fail but I also believe there's a better answer. For now it's the best we've ever had. Hopefully, it's shortfalls will prompt people to switch to (most likely) single payer.

I don't know. I think a good many of us are distrustful of single payer. It's why the government option had to be abandoned. It made folks extremely leary.
 
I don't want the Affordable Healthcare Act to fail. I don't like big government as a Libertarian, but living in the real world, if the government as espoused by the two major parties insists on having it, the people should benefit in some way to the greatest degree possible. War is not good for people, and one party exercises a propensity for looking under every stone for a small nation to fight while spending our nation's treasure to feed the fear of the bogeyman, wasting our national treasure water in a running toilet. The other proposes a measure to provide universal healthcare, which though it isn't the best, it is a start, and was weakened by the resistance of the other side of the aisle. In short, if government wants to be big, then provide for the people. Once I heard some talking about healthcare as a "big business" that was when I knew it was time to think about providing national healthcare for all. It shouldn't be considered a business. We can do much better.
 
I don't want the Affordable Healthcare Act to fail. I don't like big government as a Libertarian, but living in the real world, if the government as espoused by the two major parties insists on having it, the people should benefit in some way to the greatest degree possible. War is not good for people, and one party exercises a propensity for looking under every stone for a small nation to fight while spending our nation's treasure to feed the fear of the bogeyman, wasting our national treasure water in a running toilet. The other proposes a measure to provide universal healthcare, which though it isn't the best, it is a start, and was weakened by the resistance of the other side of the aisle. In short, if government wants to be big, then provide for the people. Once I heard some talking about healthcare as a "big business" that was when I knew it was time to think about providing national healthcare for all. It shouldn't be considered a business. We can do much better.

I don't think big medicine being a business is a failure in itself and that government is rarely, as efficient as the private sector at running operations consisting of a service oriented nature. The problem with the ultra large corporations is a mentality of using a metric for measuring profit above the value of humans. Granted it can't operate without funding and needs that addressed. So they need to structure a system that ascertains both the economic feasibility and functionality, integrating the cost and payment of physicians/staff, medical supply companies, hospitals/clinics and pharmaceutical suppliers with what is a reasonable profitability for the insurance providers and cost to patients. So it's a humongous undertaking to revamp a nearly 100 year old system that has involved into the congealed mess of state, federal, medicare, medicaid, insurances and private pay.

Ultimately, I see the ACA being molded and adjusted into something, either marginally different than it is in current form, or completely sacked for a better alternative, or possibly single payer. How well it transforms, will depend dramatically on how the parties involved work together.
 
The US Supreme court ruled that Obamacare is a tax. A tax law that did not receive one vote in congress from the Republicans who represent nearly half of the people of this nation.... not one Republican vote.

When Obamacare did not receive any Republican support it had already failed. When America elected this egomaniac, the entire nation failed.
 
As I see it...it depends.

On the one hand, if "Obamacare" is going to cause more harm than good, I hope it fails. Unless failing causes more harm than succeeding, in which case I hope it doesn't fail.

On the other hand, if "Obamacare" is going to do more good than harm, I hope it succeeds.

The problem is defining what good is and what harm is, which no one is able to do.
That, and successfully predicting the future.
 
The US Supreme court ruled that Obamacare is a tax. A tax law that did not receive one vote in congress from the Republicans who represent nearly half of the people of this nation.... not one Republican vote.

When Obamacare did not receive any Republican support it had already failed. When America elected this egomaniac, the entire nation failed.

Unfortunately for republicans, they don't have anything better to replace Obamacare.
 
Unfortunately for republicans, they don't have anything better to replace Obamacare.

There is a reason we don't live in France.
 
Unfortunately for republicans, they don't have anything better to replace Obamacare.

When you put out a fire, what do you replace it with?
 
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