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Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?

You worried?

  • Yes

    Votes: 40 49.4%
  • No

    Votes: 36 44.4%
  • I'm buying my marshmallows

    Votes: 5 6.2%

  • Total voters
    81
Russia may occupy other Russian-speaking parts of the Ukraine. Who is going to stop them?

My argument is that would escalate things to an extremely dangerous level because I think it would go kinetic at that point between Ukraine and Russia. Right now I think Ukraine is in containment mode, fully realizing they've lost Crimea. The mobilization is intended, I think, to discourage further annexations in the east and south.
 
If Putin succeeds without any trouble at all, it will just increase the chances he does it again and again and again..... See my above post do you really think Putin will accept the Crimea alone without any land link to the rest of Russia?

That is where his military assets are, so I think it is feasible that he stop at that. Is it more likely than not? Can't say that I know the answer to that question.
 
I'm sure Putin is banking on all three.

I would think so. He probably knows more about the general views of our population and has reviewed the polls more than anyone... well... maybe China and Iran do too. He's a worthy adversary not to be underestimated by any means.
 
my argument is that would escalate things to an extremely dangerous level because i think it would go kinetic at that point between ukraine and russia. Right now i think ukraine is in containment mode, fully realizing they've lost crimea. The mobilization is intended,
i think, to discourage further annexations in the east and south.




Right.

But it's not going to stop Russia from doing whatever it wants to do.


This will all be very clear in the near future.

 
Russia already took Crimea which is a part of Ukraine. Ukraine's integrity has been broken and ensurers that it would not come to this were USA, UK, and Russia in a treaty to lay of atomic bombs.

So to answer your question: This already is war. It also challenges the ensurers of that treaty. Should they back down it would go down history that there can be no gain in treaties with UK and USA for future countries.

Hopefully some start crunching some teeth and and push Putin back to your "cowardness." If nothing gets done it would appear that we are cowards instead.

Putting took nothing and those troops can leave as quickly as they came in.
You sound like GW Bush. Saying "bring it on" is not brave it is stupid. Thankfully we don't have a dunce in the Whitehouse anymore.
 

Yeah, umm...

I know what's going on in Ukraine. Don't pretend the OP is something original, factual, sourced or shocking. Really, the demands for extreme intervention are so stupid as to discredit legitimate calls to war. It belittles the lives lost in Syria and the horrible things that occurred.

I find this call to war undermining.



I'd say there's about a 15% chance that this situation causes World War 3. It's literally that serious.

Childish nonsense.


Russian spy ship just docked in Cuba 100 miles from Miami. The ship poses no harm, but it sends a message and I think that message is loud and clear and you don't need me to spell it out for you.

-Michael Savage
 
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Yeah, umm...

I know what's going on in Ukraine. Don't pretend the OP is something original, factual, sourced or shocking. Really, the demands for extreme intervention are so stupid as to discredit legitimate calls to war. It belittles the lives lost in Syria and the horrible things that occurred.

I find this call to war undermining.





Childish nonsense.




-Michael Savage

Ukraine has nothing to do with Syria. Stop trying to thread hijack.
 
That is where his military assets are, so I think it is feasible that he stop at that. Is it more likely than not? Can't say that I know the answer to that question.

You really think a megalomaniac like Putin will stop at the Crimea and not demand a land bridge to it?
Ok well maybe you are right
 
You really think a megalomaniac like Putin will stop at the Crimea and not demand a land bridge to it?
Ok well maybe you are right

Like I said, I have no idea what he's planning. I only suggest that annexing Crimea would be a reasonable place to stop considering there are military assets there making the intervention in that area somewhat defensible (not that I think it is justified). Considering the predictable outcry, he may feel Crimea is enough to digest for the moment. He's essentially got it without firing a shot to date, so he may consider that a tasty enough prize without risking all out war with Ukraine, and chilly relations with the West for decades to come.
 
Like I said, I have no idea what he's planning. I only suggest that annexing Crimea would be a reasonable place to stop considering there are military assets there making the intervention in that area somewhat defensible (not that I think it is justified). Considering the predictable outcry, he may feel Crimea is enough to digest for the moment. He's essentially got it without firing a shot to date, so he may consider that a tasty enough prize without risking all out war with Ukraine, and chilly relations with the rest for decades to come.

Chamberlain would have so much in common with you.
 
Chamberlain would have so much in common with you.

Look, I'm just offering an idea about what Putin may be doing. I'm obviously not agreeing with it. I hope we punish Russia. That might mean a return to containment policies of the Cold War, and I'm fine with that. I'm not sure what you're advocating, but if it is WW3 then I suggest you take a hike.
 
Look, I'm just offering an idea about what Putin may be doing. I'm obviously not agreeing with it. I hope we punish Russia. That might mean a return to containment policies of the Cold War, and I'm fine with that. I'm not sure what you're advocating, but if it is WW3 then I suggest you take a hike.

I'm not advocating WW3, I am afraid it might come about because of this. I see no reason for Putin to stop with the Crimea if he gets away with it Scott free. If he goes after more of the Ukraine he may get it and still no WW3 but then he WILL go after something else. Eventually someone will stand up to him and that's when all hell will break loose.
I sincerely hope I am wrong, the parallels to what happened in the mid/late 30's is kinda scary though. Putin is even using the same excuses.

BTW I have no clue what the appropriate response would/could be. I hope there is one and someone figures it out though, for everyone's sake.
 
I'm not advocating WW3, I am afraid it might come about because of this. I see no reason for Putin to stop with the Crimea if he gets away with it Scott free. If he goes after more of the Ukraine he may get it and still no WW3 but then he WILL go after something else. Eventually someone will stand up to him and that's when all hell will break loose.
I sincerely hope I am wrong, the parallels to what happened in the mid/late 30's is kinda scary though. Putin is even using the same excuses.

BTW I have no clue what the appropriate response would/could be. I hope there is one and someone figures it out though, for everyone's sake.
We have a lot of common ground here.
 
You really think a megalomaniac like Putin will stop at the Crimea and not demand a land bridge to it?
Ok well maybe you are right

Are you not aware that the Crimea and Russia are separated by just 3km of water of the Strait of Kerch? No need for a corridor through eastern Ukraine.
 
Are you not aware that the Crimea and Russia are separated by just 3km of water of the Strait of Kerch? No need for a corridor through eastern Ukraine.

Need? What need does Putin have for taking over the Crimea? It is an excuse to get what he wants, not a need. And what he wants is more and more power. I'm sorry but to assume that Putin will stop because he has gotten all that he wants is the height of naïveté. Did he stop with Georgia? As long as he thinks he can get away with it, he will try for more and more.
 
We have a lot of common ground here.

Perhaps you sound more hopeful than me though.
I hope you are right and I am wrong.
 
Need? What need does Putin have for taking over the Crimea? It is an excuse to get what he wants, not a need. And what he wants is more and more power.

Well...he's got his primary access to the Mediterranean Sea there. And big honking naval and military bases there- which may be likely to fall into less- friendly government control.

But your hysterics are noted.
 
Well...he's got his primary access to the Mediterranean Sea there. And big honking naval and military bases there- which may be likely to fall into less- friendly government control.

But your hysterics are noted.

Doesn't quite get him to the Med though does it. The bases in Crimea were already secure there was no threat of them falling into less friendly hands, so that wasn't an issue. If you think I am being hysterical so be it.
 
What...exactly....are you talking about?

Your post seemed to suggest that Russian gangs are not Russian Government sponsored.
 
Hi Dezaad,

A slippery slope is a logical fallacy where a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any rational argument or demonstrable mechanism for the inevitability of the event in question.

I don't think I made an assertion that the downfall of Ukraine would inevitably lead to the recapture of East Germany, for instance. Just to make clear, I was asking a question... if they can take Ukraine, what's to stop them from taking East Gemany?
If your question was rhetorical, then there it is an assertion that there is no difference, and thus is a slippery slope argument. Given the tone of the post in which it occurred, I think you meant it rhetorically. But, ok.

That's one to think about, and I'd like to hear your thoughts.
My thoughts would be the same if I was responding to a rhetorical question as to a serious one: The situations are very, very different. Any grab of East Germany would be met by a huge war, probably a war seeking the unconditional surrender of Russia. This would be the goal of the war that I would support.

You are correct that the situations in Germany and Ukraine differ, however what you maybe haven't considered yet is how Russia itself would differ, hypothetically, were it to succeed unequivocally in Ukraine by taking control of that country. Surely they would be just a little bit bolder than before, right?
Perhaps, but it isn't worth our blood to seek to prevent that greater boldness.

On the same train of thought, how would the perception of the United States differ, in that hypothetical scenario? Surely the world would look at us and, where in the past it was implied that we would come to the aid of our allies in need, to what extent would that faith in the United States diminish? Would the Germans, Poles, Taiwanese, etc feel the need to rethink their international allegiances given this new information?
The Taiwanese certainly should. The Germans and Poles should not, and I don't think they will. The difference is agreements in place. The fact of the matter is that even though we have military might, this is a defacto multipolar world. Taiwan should probably face the fact that eventually, they will be back with China.

If I'm Taiwan, or Poland, or Japan, and the United States sits on its hands while Russia takes Ukraine, I'm going to think long and hard about my allegiance with the United States, and possibly consider allying with the Russians or Chinese instead to save my country from future invasion.

Something to consider.
Again, if I am Taiwan, I agree with you. But the fact is that China's claim has some legitimacy, and we don't have a military agreement. Exact same thing in Ukraine. Japan can count on us, and they know it. However, we should encourage them to change their Constitution and take a not so pacifist stance. Asia is changing, and Japan needs to be part of the balance of powers.

Bottom line: WE don't need to stop EVERY act of aggression. We have agreements with countries with whom we ought to stop acts of aggression. The others cannot count on us, and we have made that clear by not having agreements with them. They cannot count on us because we don't want them to count on us.

On the other hand, we can (and should) attempt to punish Russia in other ways. Those other ways may or may not be effective, but if Europe isn't going to step up, I seen no reason for us to do so.

On the third hand, if Europe wants to put together a big army consisting of European people to go an defend Ukraine, I could possibly be persuaded that U.S forces should be involved as a minority of that force.
 
If the thought of war between USA and Russia doesn't make you **** yourself, I don't know about sociopath.... but maybe your sense of realism is a bit out of whack.

Russia isn't Iraq or even Vietnam. It isn't even Japan or Germany. It would by far be the most brutal and difficult war in the history of this nation.

And neither side would win such a foolish exercise. The USSR is dead and Russia needs trade to survive. They will pull out soon enough on the threat of sanctions alone.
 
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