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Are Public Schools In The US Biased Against Males?

Is there a bias against boys in the American educational system?

  • Total voters
    32
Dragonfly said:
Lori Day: Why Boys Are Failing in an Educational System Stacked Against Them


So I ask:

1) Should we segregate boys and girls into different schools, or at least separate classrooms?

2) Should boys start school at an older age than girls? If girls start first grade at 6 years old - should boys be made to wait until 7?

3) Do boys require male teachers?
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Boys used to do fine with female teachers in the past. What's changed is the mainlining of feminist theory into educational reform, combined with the freebasing of asinine liberal viewpoints into that education theory.

It's what goes on in the classrooms that is causing the problems now which were not problems before.
 
Dragonfly said:
Is it possible that perhaps girls are just getting smarter? Raising the bar?
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No one is getting smarter. The metrics have changed. Girls are being rewarded for factors that are not related to content mastery, hence their grades are improving.
 
NIMBY said:
I strongly encourage the use of answer keys that give you the written explanations of answers.
Graphs, Charts, and Tables work great in Science and Math.
Also, testing at local community colleges as well as 4-year universities begins their junior year into their senior year.
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Thanks. I'm working with a group of children now who have been labeled learning disabled mostly because they are round pegs that don't fit into square holes. Some of their thinking is amazingly outside the box! Someday, that will be looked positively. Sadly, not now since they usually fail these canned test miserably. Simply put, their responses weren't on the rubrics.

Off topic- Did anyone watch that 60 minute special about the ADHD and/or Dyslexic students becoming leaders and extremely successful as adults?
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
From OP link-
"The author’s third stop is Poland, a country that has scaled the heights of international test-score rankings in record time by following the formula common to Finland and South Korea: well-trained teachers, a rigorous curriculum and a challenging exam required of all graduating seniors.
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Why overlook the very most important common factor for all 3 countries, Finland, South Korean and Poland all have extremely high levels of population homogeneity.
 
RiverDad said:
No one is getting smarter. The metrics have changed. Girls are being rewarded for factors that are not related to content mastery, hence their grades are improving.
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Well if NO ONE is getting smarter, then we are REALLY screwed. :2razz: Somebody MUST be getting smarter.
 
A big problem here is that education theory has moved away from competition and towards cooperation. Boys, and men, are intensely competitive. Boys will have contests to see who can burp the loudest, who is the funniest, who can climb highest up a tree. Each competitive contest allows a boy to be a master of his own domain. Things are a bit different with girls - their social hierarchy is more centralized in comparison to the decentralized model boys follow. Girls work much better cooperatively.

With cooperation replacing competition in schools because competition was thought to hinder the progress of girls (it didn't) we've removed a strong motivating force from boys in schooling. Group projects, peer learning and other tactics likely inhibit boys from full participation.

There are a host of things going on but what we do know is that boys who score higher on objective tests of content mastery can actually earn lower letter grades from the teachers than girls who they outscored. The girls are being rewarded for something apart from content mastery. When students get marks for completing their homework even if answers are wrong, then girls benefit because they are more compliant to authority - they'll do the work. Boys, researchers have found, tend to do homework when required but really lose interest in it after they come to understand the lesson, so half-completed homework from boys is far more common than from girls. Same too with rewards for showing of work - boys are more binary - is the answer right or wrong. Showing the work in order to get a reward favors how girls behave and so they get rewarded for this more frequently than boys.

To boil it down - girls follow instructions more than do boys, hence higher grades, but lower performance on objective tests of content.
 
and things were going so well....then.....


RiverDad said:
What's changed is the mainlining of feminist theory into educational reform, combined with the freebasing of asinine liberal viewpoints into that education theory.
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:roll:
 
It's been shown time and time again that boys and girls learn differently. I'd be perfectly fine with sex segregated classrooms, but that's one thing that will never happen because of how political correctness has slowed down America.

Also, American's complain all the time about the quality of teachers but are rarely willing to pay them the amount the "education leading" countries pay their teachers.
 
DashingAmerican said:
It's been shown time and time again that boys and girls learn differently. I'd be perfectly fine with sex segregated classrooms, but that's one thing that will never happen because of how political correctness has slowed down America.

Also, American's complain all the time about the quality of teachers but are rarely willing to pay them the amount the "education leading" countries pay their teachers.
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Teacher quality isn't all that important. We do OK when we control for confounds and compare like-to-like in the international comparisons.

pisax.jpg
 
DashingAmerican said:
It's been shown time and time again that boys and girls learn differently.
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Generally speaking - boys and girls have shared classrooms for at least a century haven't they?

Do they segregate the sexes in foreign countries?

I'm game for trying anything, but we still have to look at history.

If boys and girls in the same classroom is not helping boys, then why is this a subject now, and not something that could have been fixed 50-100 years ago?
 
RiverDad said:
Teacher quality isn't all that important. We do OK when we control for confounds and compare like-to-like in the international comparisons.

pisax.jpg
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While teacher "quality" may not be the most important thing it is still the teachers that pick the subject manner the students learn, which is an important thing.

While the government may say all kids have to learn this, the teachers choose which books to use, which point of view to teach it in, etc.
 
Dragonfly said:
Generally speaking - boys and girls have shared classrooms for at least a century haven't they?

Do they segregate the sexes in foreign countries?

I'm game for trying anything, but we still have to look at history.

If boys and girls in the same classroom is not helping boys, then why is this a subject now, and not something that could have been fixed 50-100 years ago?
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I'm not sure on any of those counts. I just think if we had teachers that catered towards types of learning instead of teaching everyone the same way, we'd be better off.

That's why, in a lot of cases, children that are home-schooled can come into a public school toward their senior years and be leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the student body.
 
DashingAmerican said:
While the government may say all kids have to learn this, the teachers choose which books to use, which point of view to teach it in, etc.
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Yes, in many cases you have two or three companies competing to sell cr*p. the worst is the scripted programs.
 
DashingAmerican said:
I'm not sure on any of those counts. I just think if we had teachers that catered towards types of learning instead of teaching everyone the same way, we'd be better off.
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..and those scripted programs schools spend tons of money on certainly don't allow for that kind of individualized learning or creativity. A multimillion dollar industry selling teachers how to teach to a script.
 
DashingAmerican said:
I'm not sure on any of those counts. I just think if we had teachers that catered towards types of learning instead of teaching everyone the same way, we'd be better off
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How many different ways must a teacher know how to teach, and how much time would that take?

If they can barely get through teaching kids one way in any given class per day, how would they teach 4 different ways in one class?

I mean it sounds good, but what's the reality that's involved there?
 
Dragonfly said:
How many different ways must a teacher know how to teach, and how much time would that take?

If they can barely get through teaching kids one way in any given class per day, how would they teach 4 different ways in one class?

I mean it sounds good, but what's the reality that's involved there?
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Hire a teacher for each method.

Since students learn differently, the class sizes would be smaller, thus reducing the burden and increasing the one on one teacher-student time.
 
This year's Year 7 intake at my high school.....1/5 of the students have a reading/writing/comprehension level equal to year 1 - year 3.

Our lessons are 75 minutes....4 lessons a day with Recess 1, Recess 2 and Lunch....a break of 20 minutes between each class.

We have graded class for most subjects....you cannot imagine what it is like to have a bottom English class of boys and girls in a room for 75 minutes. No matter the level of ability, all students have to do the same course.

We have (top students only) separate girls and boys classes. As far as I know, the girls like it, the boys don't.

A top class used to be above average, a middle class average and a bottom class below average. Now a top class is average, a middle class is below average and a bottom class....close to IM!

Last year, the English faculty could not even find enough students for a top class, so they put average students into the top classes!

I know people don't believe me, because I have posted this information here before, but, at least here in Australia, a student does not have to do any work (no class work, no assessment tasks, no class work) at all, none, zero, zip, until they get to Year 11. Promotion to the next year is automatic.....which is why I can have students in Year 9 and 10 who cannot read and write. I have a student in Year 7 and all he can do is write his name. There are two girls, that I know of, who have not been to school since Year 7 (they came a couple of times) and didn't bother again.....they are now, on the records, in Year 10.

I wish people would stop blaming the teachers for failures. It is certainly not the teachers I work with and know in the school....it is the system, the Department of Education and psychologists who have destroyed a couple of generations of students by their insistence that: all students are equal (academically they are not), Little Johnny might have his psyche damaged if he doesn't get promoted with his peer/friendship group, it's always the teacher's fault.

The education system is screwed until the following is enforced. There should be three criteria for promotion for every student: The student understands the work and is competent in at least basic skills such as reading, writing, comprehension, maths; the student DOES the work (all class work, homework and assessment tasks); the student acts like a civilised human being and not an immature spoilt brat (let's leave all the letters after a student's name out of this....everyone knows that ADD etc. etc. is a growth industry that keeps psychologists in an income). Until that happens, it will never work, ever.
 
For me it is other. US schools are too much about athletic achievement IMHO when it comes to boys. US schools are too much about macho guys who are the "cool kids". US schools are too much about ignoring and ridiculing boys (and to some degree also girls) who are academic over-achievers.

The US school system does not help IMHO, children of all academic levels are thrown into one kind of school (junior high school) followed by regular high school. That means that children who are really academically gifted are in one and the same class as children who will never even be able to finish high school or who are just succeeding because they are good at sports.

In the Netherlands there is a whole host of different kinds of schools after elementary school. This is done because not all children are equally academically gifted as others.

1. Practical education. This is largely for children with learning difficulties. That can be because one has low level of IQ (between 60 and no more than 75-80) or youths who are seriously lagging behind in learning. They have to do an exam that evaluates their level in reading, spelling, calculus and reading comprehension. That means that the child that is aged 12 has to lag behind three years (meaning it has a learning level of a 9 year old). This can be because of a whole host of reasons, mentally handicapped children, autistic children, children of foreign parents who have had learning difficulties.

This practical education is for children from age 12 and the kids can only leave the school at age 18. Children who can catch up during those 6 years will be able to go to education number 2 (only a small number) or who can achieve the practical studies from education number 2 only (and not the more difficult learning components).

All other children will learn during those 6 years through theoretical lessons on their level, practical education geared towards employability and internships, how to live on their own/get jobs/work/citizenship and leisure (what things they can do to have fun/improve themselves).

2. preparatory and/or middle vocational education.

This is for children who have some academic future but are not ready yet to go do a higher school (they go to the preparatory direction of this education). Then you have children who are more qualified than the children who go to educational option 1 but who are more gifted in working with their hands rather than sitting in school benches learning about Homer (the book, not the cartoon character) and ancient greek history. Then there is a group of children who are more gifted but who will learn their trade best through hands on education rather than theoretical education (children who will learn how to be a car mechanic better through actually dismantling a car engine then learning about dismantling a car engine through studying the theory of it in books). Then there is a group of children who in theory have the academic prowess to keep up in part with the children who want to do the preparatory direction of this education but do not want to mostly learn about theory but are more apt at also learning a vocation (there are several directions like economy/care and welfare/agricultural or technical).

The children who graduate from the middle preparatory direction can go to middle vocational studies or even go to educational option number 3

3. higher preparatory education (between 12 and 17, 5 years) which prepares children for either the highest form of vocational studies or middle level vocational studies. You can also graduate and go to educational option number 4

4. high preparatory education for children who (after graduating from 6 years of study 12-18) will either go to university, the highest form of vocational studies

This means that every child between 12 and say 18 will learn to their own level of academic ability. This usually makes children with higher academic abilities study with children who are like them and not with kids will never graduate from high school who will most likely bully them, risking that some children will not achieve their potential.
 
Peter King said:
For me it is other. US schools are too much about athletic achievement IMHO when it comes to boys. US schools are too much about macho guys who are the "cool kids". US schools are too much about ignoring and ridiculing boys (and to some degree also girls) who are academic over-achievers.

The US school system does not help IMHO, children of all academic levels are thrown into one kind of school (junior high school) followed by regular high school. That means that children who are really academically gifted are in one and the same class as children who will never even be able to finish high school or who are just succeeding because they are good at sports.

In the Netherlands there is a whole host of different kinds of schools after elementary school. This is done because not all children are equally academically gifted as others.

1. Practical education. This is largely for children with learning difficulties. That can be because one has low level of IQ (between 60 and no more than 75-80) or youths who are seriously lagging behind in learning. They have to do an exam that evaluates their level in reading, spelling, calculus and reading comprehension. That means that the child that is aged 12 has to lag behind three years (meaning it has a learning level of a 9 year old). This can be because of a whole host of reasons, mentally handicapped children, autistic children, children of foreign parents who have had learning difficulties.

This practical education is for children from age 12 and the kids can only leave the school at age 18. Children who can catch up during those 6 years will be able to go to education number 2 (only a small number) or who can achieve the practical studies from education number 2 only (and not the more difficult learning components).

All other children will learn during those 6 years through theoretical lessons on their level, practical education geared towards employability and internships, how to live on their own/get jobs/work/citizenship and leisure (what things they can do to have fun/improve themselves).

2. preparatory and/or middle vocational education.

This is for children who have some academic future but are not ready yet to go do a higher school (they go to the preparatory direction of this education). Then you have children who are more qualified than the children who go to educational option 1 but who are more gifted in working with their hands rather than sitting in school benches learning about Homer (the book, not the cartoon character) and ancient greek history. Then there is a group of children who are more gifted but who will learn their trade best through hands on education rather than theoretical education (children who will learn how to be a car mechanic better through actually dismantling a car engine then learning about dismantling a car engine through studying the theory of it in books). Then there is a group of children who in theory have the academic prowess to keep up in part with the children who want to do the preparatory direction of this education but do not want to mostly learn about theory but are more apt at also learning a vocation (there are several directions like economy/care and welfare/agricultural or technical).

The children who graduate from the middle preparatory direction can go to middle vocational studies or even go to educational option number 3

3. higher preparatory education (between 12 and 17, 5 years) which prepares children for either the highest form of vocational studies or middle level vocational studies. You can also graduate and go to educational option number 4

4. high preparatory education for children who (after graduating from 6 years of study 12-18) will either go to university, the highest form of vocational studies

This means that every child between 12 and say 18 will learn to their own level of academic ability. This usually makes children with higher academic abilities study with children who are like them and not with kids will never graduate from high school who will most likely bully them, risking that some children will not achieve their potential.
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I like the sound of this system.
 
Goshin said:
50 years ago, children were much more strictly disciplined in school.... AND at home.

That's the single biggest difference.

Another is that there were more readily available outlets for their natural aggression and exploratory impulses... modern "zero tolerance" (for "violence") policy has acted much like shaking up a soda bottle then putting a cork in it... pressure builds up and something blows.
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Absolutely correct.
 
Schools do not hold kids accountable for their actions anymore. Lose at a game?.... its okay you get participation awards. Cant sit still?.... its okay because we will put you on pills. Act up in class and disturb others?... its okay because you have a right to an education and the other kids your disturbing dont matter. I've heard that kids dont understand behavior has consequences.... personally, I knew that bad behavior meant I would not be able to sit down.
 
The quality of parenting has gone way down.
 
Gardener said:
My high school calculus and physics classes had as many girls as boys and they did as well.

This was over 40 years ago.
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Mine, too, about the same time --- but I think fewer women really excel in math. However, the ones that do excel are really good.
 
I doubt it.

Females mature faster then males...that's probably the problem.

Naturally, a female in Grade 1 is going to have a scholastic advantage over a Grade 1 boy with a similar IQ.

I highly doubt some teacher bias is the major reason...not even close. Just simple genetics is the cause, IMO.


Solution? How about starting boys in school a year later then girls for a decade/generation and see how it works?
 
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