• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

How We Raise Our Daughters - 21st Century [W:87,158,368]

We should be raising our daughters

  • Total voters
    86
Tigger said:
Love didn't exist for me long before "romantic love" was a potential option, Superfly. People are instinctively and innately self-centered creatures. It's what human beings are. We look out for what is in our own best interests. That's not only normal, but it makes perfect sense. Anything that places us in a position of vulnerability to others is not a natural or logical concept.
Click to expand...

I couldn't disagree with you more, and like I've told you before, I hope you never reproduce. True love is nothing if not vulnerable. To be able to truly be in love with somebody, you have to offer yourself up and hope that you are making the right decision. And being a parent, at least being a good one, there's no such thing any longer as doing what's in your best interest. Everything now falls to the child - you do everything - everything for that child. Your entire life has shifted from "me, me, me" to "her, her, her." You truly cannot be a selfish person, and be a good parent, or be a good spouse.
 
Tigger said:
I do not seek Respect, Love, or anything else from anyone, tecoyah. I gave up on worrying how or what anyone felt about me a long time ago.
Click to expand...

Then why put your girl through this? She deserves the right to be able to find love and as long as she's with you, she'll never get it. She'll just be subjected to a life of indentured servitude with a misogynist who beats her into submission.
 
Superfly said:
I couldn't disagree with you more, and like I've told you before, I hope you never reproduce. True love is nothing if not vulnerable. To be able to truly be in love with somebody, you have to offer yourself up and hope that you are making the right decision. And being a parent, at least being a good one, there's no such thing any longer as doing what's in your best interest. Everything now falls to the child - you do everything - everything for that child. Your entire life has shifted from "me, me, me" to "her, her, her." You truly cannot be a selfish person, and be a good parent, or be a good spouse.
Click to expand...

Been down that 'vulnerable' road before and I'm not going back there, EVER. As for becoming a parent... that's in hands much more powerful than mine.
 
Superfly said:
Then why put your girl through this? She deserves the right to be able to find love and as long as she's with you, she'll never get it. She'll just be subjected to a life of indentured servitude with a misogynist who beats her into submission.
Click to expand...

She knows who and what I am. She knew it from the beginning. She has CHOSEN to stay with me. I don't lock her up when I leave for work on a daily basis. She is free to leave any time she wishes. Did you ever think that maybe there are some women out there who WANT that sort of relationship?
 
Tigger said:
I do not seek Respect, Love, or anything else from anyone, tecoyah. I gave up on worrying how or what anyone felt about me a long time ago.
Click to expand...

The key phrase that saddens me is "I gave up." I'm very sorry, Tigger. Again, I appreciate your being frank. You aren't the only one who's "given up" or become cynical or rigid; you're just one of the few willing to acknowledge it.
 
nota bene said:
The key phrase that saddens me is "I gave up." I'm very sorry, Tigger. Again, I appreciate your being frank. You aren't the only one who's "given up" or become cynical or rigid; you're just one of the few willing to acknowledge it.
Click to expand...

nota, I carry one of my main differences from everyone else literally ON my face. I have since the instant I was born. I GREW UP getting to see how people felt about me every time they looked me in the eyes. Every time they wouldn't look me in the face. Every time that they preferred to hang out with or go out with someone who wasn't different than they were. Someone who looked, thought and acted just like everyone else. My parents and I could regale you with stories from my childhood for HOURS. I could spend days documenting the reactions of people over the course of my life. Thankfully I learned to not see/hear most of it and ignore the vast majority of the rest of it. It still happens even to this day and it pisses my fiance and her family off quite a bit. I just ignore it. Those people aren't worth my time or my emotions. That doesn't mean I don't still know it's there.

Superfly said:
*shudder*
Click to expand...

Pray REALLY hard and maybe the Powers will listen to you.
 
Tigger said:
Women have more options in life. That's indisputable. So do Men. More choices doesn't necessarily mean we're better off, Ocean. In fact, I would suggest the exact opposite is true; that the more options we have in life the LESS well off we are. More options means more opportunities to make the WRONG choice, for both Men and women.
Click to expand...

Oh PLEASE. Do you really expect me to believe nonsense like this? I'll be happy to disappoint you by saying I don't. Obviously, YOU are satisfied with this extremely narrow -- almost PRISON-like -- existence, with people having almost NO real options in life whatsoever. Again, you don't get to determine anyone else's options in life, and that is something to be VERY grateful for.

Since the basic subject here is how we raise our daughters, I'll get back to that. As far as I'M concerned, the best way to raise daughters is the same way parents raise their sons. Parents need to educate their daughters to be strong, independent individuals, capable of succeeding in any job/career they set their minds to, and let go of archaic -- and oppressive -- gender restrictions. That's how MY parents raised me, and I am very glad they did.

Girls and women greatly benefit from graduating high school, then moving on to either college or trade schools and successfully completing those programs, and after that, obtaining their first good jobs and moving up from there. Women have the same right to be doctors, lawyers, scientists, technicians, engineers, mathematicians, law enforcement officers at state and federal levels, and military officers as men have. Obviously YOU believe those are the "wrong" choices for women. So what. As I said before, it isn't for YOU to decide for anyone but yourself, and that is something ALL women can be very happy about.
 
Ocean007 said:
Oh PLEASE. Do you really expect me to believe nonsense like this? I'll be happy to disappoint you by saying I don't. Obviously, YOU are satisfied with this extremely narrow -- almost PRISON-like -- existence, with people having almost NO real options in life whatsoever. Again, you don't get to determine anyone else's options in life, and that is something to be VERY grateful for.
Click to expand...

That's incorrect. I also get to determine the options for the lives of anyone else who relies on me to provide for them. That would include my fiance and any children we eventually have. Of course they're welcome to leave any time they don't like those options, but at that point they become their own problem, not mine.

Ocean007 said:
As far as I'M concerned, the best way to raise daughters is the same way parents raise their sons. Parents need to educate their daughters to be strong, independent individuals, capable of succeeding in any job/career they set their minds to, and let go of archaic -- and oppressive -- gender restrictions. That's how MY parents raised me, and I am very glad they did.
Click to expand...

I agree with your first sentence. We do need to raise our sons and daughters the same way. We need to teach them that life is not about what one CAN do, but about what one SHOULD do. That everyone has a place in society and that place is where each individual belongs, as a cog in the greater machine of society. Thankfully my parents didn't have to worry about raising girls. I have two brothers and no sisters.

Ocean007 said:
Girls and women greatly benefit from graduating high school, then moving on to either college or trade schools and successfully completing those programs, and after that, obtaining their first good jobs and moving up from there. Women have the same right to be doctors, lawyers, scientists, technicians, engineers, mathematicians, law enforcement officers at state and federal levels, and military officers as men have. Obviously YOU believe those are the "wrong" choices for women. So what. As I said before, it isn't for YOU to decide for anyone but yourself, and that is something ALL women can be very happy about.
Click to expand...

All young people benefit greatly from learning very early in life that just because you want to do something or be something doesn't mean you CAN or you SHOULD do. We all have jobs in life.... Men, women, children, etc.... Everyone has their role to play. Only when we get people back to understanding and embracing that philosophy can we return this nation and our species to its proper place in the world.
 
Tigger said:
Yes we are living together and no the relationship is no longer chaste. It was until we moved in together last April, sixteen months into our relationship. Remeber, we're not playing by "Christian" rules. We believe that sex is reserved for committed relationships. Not necessarily marriage but committed, monogamous, long-term relationships.

Ok. No problem. I know that you consider yourself the sole arbiter of right and wrong.

I have seen the true blackness in the human heart over the course of my life. A heart and a soul cannot be both dead and alive at the same time. You cannot have both love and hate in the same heart. I learned that a long time ago. Hatred is the stronger force, and the one I have embraced, as do almost all human beings

I'm truly sorry you feel that way....and are completely wrong and will never learn differently. You never met my parents, for example...but besides them I have known have known many people who 'embrace love' as you put it. Real life is generally different tho...I know you see only black and white....but real life is actually all shades of gray.

You are the sole owner of your own happiness as well and instead of trying to achieve it or ensure others have it, instead you claim it does not belong to us in this world, period. You have made your choice but again, by no means should you believe it applies to others.

LOL. I would suggest you don't have too many real Men in your 'town'. You're trying to live a double life, and no truly self-respecting Man would accept you as a woman. I come from a family where farming was the norm until a generation or two ago. Nowhere in that family did the women do most of the different types of work on the farm. Of course they did certain things, but most of the work was done by the Men.

LOL These are men that work and provide for their families and camp and farm and fish and work the land and laugh and get mad and help their neighbors. They are men by any definition except perhaps yours...and I'll take these 'unreal' men anyday over your descriptions. I would run 100 mph in the opposite direction of what you describe.

And when you are the owner of the farm....you do all the work on the farm...or you share back and forth with neighbors. Since when is nurturing plants and livestock unfeminine? Well, all that has to be cared for, and so does the place they live. Who else is responsible for it all except me?
Click to expand...


Nothing you havent told me directly before ^^^^^
 
Last edited:
Tigger said:
We look out for what is in our own best interests. That's not only normal, but it makes perfect sense. Anything that places us in a position of vulnerability to others is not a natural or logical concept.
.
Click to expand...

Completely wrong and it IS natural...the best example of all, and it's the domain of women: motherhood.
 
Tigger said:
She knows who and what I am. She knew it from the beginning. She has CHOSEN to stay with me. I don't lock her up when I leave for work on a daily basis. She is free to leave any time she wishes. Did you ever think that maybe there are some women out there who WANT that sort of relationship?
Click to expand...

From what you've shared of your relationship before, like the Valentine's Day thread and your posts in general...it sounds like you both believe you have no other choices.
 
Lursa said:
Completely wrong and it IS natural...the best example of all, and it's the domain of women: motherhood.
Click to expand...

Then we have very different views of motherhood, Lursa. In mine her place is to raise the children by the rules and conventions put in place by her Husband. It's not really about nurturing or anything like that. It's much more of an educational and training process.

Lursa said:
From what you've shared of your relationship before, like the Valentine's Day thread and your posts in general...it sounds like you both believe you have no other choices.
Click to expand...

Honestly, we really don't. I'll be 40 years old this July. I have a full facial birthmark and a personality/attitudes which are pretty much repulsive to almost every modern woman on the planet. She'll be 33 in another week and a half. She has serious emotional issues due to things in her past. Until almost 3 years ago she weighed nearly 400 lbs. She's lost a lot of that, but not as much as she would like. She is a high school drop-out and almost unemployable at this point in her life. Other than as a housewife/mother she really has no appreciable skills. Not exactly the recipe for either one of us to be beating off the onrush of potential suitors with a stick.
 
Tigger said:
I would suggest that any Man who allows his own best interests to be subverted by an emotional attachment to ANYONE, but especially a woman is an idiot on multiple levels. Self-respect comes from knowing what one should do, and doing it. Any man who can allow himself to be over-ruled by someone who should be looking to him to make the decisions has no reason to respect himself or expect any Man to respect him.
Click to expand...

Tigger said:
She knows who and what I am. She knew it from the beginning.
Click to expand...

You're clearly aware of your failings in your second post but pretend in the first that it is what makes a self respecting man. As tecoyah states - count me too among the idiots - I make sacrifices every day for other human beings: firstly for my children and then for my partner. My best interests come second behind my children's and I work out my best interests with my partner.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
You're clearly aware of your failings in your second post but pretend in the first that it is what makes a self respecting man. As tecoyah states - count me too among the idiots - I make sacrifices every day for other human beings: firstly for my children and then for my partner. My best interests come second behind my children's and I work out my best interests with my partner.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say "aware of my failings" so much as I am simply fully aware of who/what I am and how I appear to a large segment of the population. I know that my viewpoints are largely unpopular and that my way of looking at/living in the world is not a common one. I've never sought to change a woman to meet my requirements, only to find one who already did.

As for making sacrifices - that's your choice and you get to live with the reprecussions of it, both positive and negative. At least I assume you find positives with it.
 
Tigger said:
I wouldn't say "aware of my failings" so much as I am simply fully aware of who/what I am and how I appear to a large segment of the population. I know that my viewpoints are largely unpopular and that my way of looking at/living in the world is not a common one. I've never sought to change a woman to meet my requirements, only to find one who already did.
Click to expand...

I think what I'm pointing out is that your viewpoint is not as you recognise a "popular" or common one which is why your statement of what makes a "self-respecting man" so wrong.

Tigger said:
As for making sacrifices - that's your choice and you get to live with the reprecussions of it, both positive and negative. At least I assume you find positives with it.
Click to expand...

Of course there are positives - my partner also makes sacrifices for me. Mutual respect is important to me and that means we negotiate between ourselves. We also both agree to make self-sacrifices for our daughter which is what being a parent is all about.
 
Some of you need to stop feeding the Tigger.

He is what he is. Whatever that is.

There's no reasoning, changing, or even hoping to understand his point of view.

He's a true island. You'll just keep walking around in circles and never get anywhere.

Let him post, then shake your head, shudder at the idea he might reproduce, then move along.

Throw him a piece of popcorn every now and then, but for god's sake don't waste time cooking him nutritious meals.
 
Dragonfly said:
Some of you need to stop feeding the Tigger.

He is what he is. Whatever that is.

There's no reasoning, changing, or even hoping to understand his point of view.

He's a true island. You'll just keep walking around in circles and never get anywhere.

Let him post, then shake your head, shudder at the idea he might reproduce, then move along.

Throw him a piece of popcorn every now and then, but for god's sake don't waste time cooking him nutritious meals.
Click to expand...

I have no interest or agenda in changing him.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
I think what I'm pointing out is that your viewpoint is not as you recognise a "popular" or common one which is why your statement of what makes a "self-respecting man" so wrong.
Click to expand...

I don't see how accepting that the rest of the world is Wrong, and I'm one of the few people with the cahones to do things the right way and not be ashamed to comment on it can be construed as anything other than "self-respecting".
 
Tigger said:
I don't see how accepting that the rest of the world is Wrong, and I'm one of the few people with the cahones to do things the right way and not be ashamed to comment on it can be construed as anything other than "self-respecting".
Click to expand...

ostrich-in-the-sand.jpg


Self-respecting doesn't mean having an ostrich mentality!
 
Infinite Chaos said:
ostrich-in-the-sand.jpg


Self-respecting doesn't mean having an ostrich mentality!
Click to expand...

Like many who have faced pain and rejection, he has created his own world to escape into...and described it quite clearly on the forum.

It doesnt matter that (almost) no one else would want to follow him into that world...my concern is for a child that might be brought into that 'world' without any choice.

A child may change him in ways that none of us, including him, can predict. I would unfortunately, not be especially hopeful.
 
Lursa said:
my concern is for a child that might be brought into that 'world' without any choice.
Click to expand...

See, many of us share these basic human concerns. I too have concerns for children born to liberals. There are very few ways to save these children.
 
RiverDad said:
See, many of us share these basic human concerns. I too have concerns for children born to liberals. There are very few ways to save these children.
Click to expand...

LOL ^^^^ Another ostrich.
 
Dragonfly said:
Some of you need to stop feeding the Tigger.

He is what he is. Whatever that is.

There's no reasoning, changing, or even hoping to understand his point of view.

He's a true island. You'll just keep walking around in circles and never get anywhere.

Let him post, then shake your head, shudder at the idea he might reproduce, then move along.

Throw him a piece of popcorn every now and then, but for god's sake don't waste time cooking him nutritious meals.
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom