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Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?
Men were handling the vast majority of hunting, which would have provided the highest quality food available at the time.
However, that is ultimately besides the point, as "providing" doubles as a form of sexual display behavior, and always has. It serves the purpose of allowing women to determine the most sexually desirable males available.
As such, even in primitive societies, heterosexual relationships still tend to exhibit males in dominant sexual roles just as they do almost everywhere else, as the most proactive, aggressive, and resourceful males are being routinely favored by women for the purposes of procreation. The difference might not be as pronounced as it is in other societies, but the trend is still present.
Basically the only societies where women can be said to serve dominant sexual roles a majority of the time are matrilineal cultures where men have been all but expelled from the household entirely, meaning that women largely go it alone.
You are going to have to provide some evidence showing any kind of correlation whatsoever between female homemakers and low self-esteem.
And what we see almost universally from societies which try to "mix up" the traditional dynamic is that it simply does not work. Basically all it results in are marriages and long term relationships in general failing en masse, with wide spread disintegration of the family unit following close on its heels (Sweden, for instance, actually has the highest divorce rate on the planet).
The vast majority of women simply do not respect subordinate men, and men simply do not tend to prefer domineering women. It's not how they're really wired.
More often than not, you wind up with a situation reminiscent of the movie "American Beauty," with the wife losing respect for her husband and looking to score a more "respectable" mate higher up the ladder, and the husband growing more and more resentful and detached as his own status diminishes.
First off, when the heck did I suggest "imposing" anything on anyone?
Secondly, what do you think I mean by "dominant" here?
What I'm talking about is something biologically innate, not deliberate. More often than not, men simply tend to assume somewhat "dominant" roles in heterosexual relationships by default.
Why? Because they naturally tend to be a lot more assertive and interpersonally aggressive than women, and most women actually tend to prefer their men that way. As such, they tend not to resist this development when it arises in a relationship.
It seems to just be kind of the way the sexes are wired. :shrug:
There are exceptions to this rule of course, and this isn't to say that women don't tip the balance of power back in their favor in other, more subtle, ways. However, the fact that men generally do tend to be more assertive in relationships while women are more passive is more or less undeniable.
I also never said that women couldn't work or seek out fulfillment outside of the home.
Don't get me wrong. I think it is preferable that a woman try to stay closer to the home if she has children to care for, and leave most of the "bread winning" to her husband or significant other. However, there are plenty of ways to work around that these days.
A lot of women can quite easily work from home (like Chris does, for instance), or simply work part time. As a matter of fact, numerous studies have shown that most mothers don't even want to work full time with young children at home anyway.
Also, women were the primary "bread winners" in more natural states, as in, they were the ones providing the majority of the sustenance, so you're wrong there too.
Men were handling the vast majority of hunting, which would have provided the highest quality food available at the time.
However, that is ultimately besides the point, as "providing" doubles as a form of sexual display behavior, and always has. It serves the purpose of allowing women to determine the most sexually desirable males available.
As such, even in primitive societies, heterosexual relationships still tend to exhibit males in dominant sexual roles just as they do almost everywhere else, as the most proactive, aggressive, and resourceful males are being routinely favored by women for the purposes of procreation. The difference might not be as pronounced as it is in other societies, but the trend is still present.
Basically the only societies where women can be said to serve dominant sexual roles a majority of the time are matrilineal cultures where men have been all but expelled from the household entirely, meaning that women largely go it alone.
So yes, it is absolutely an issue of women having little self-respect, in many cases. Womens' self-esteem is still extremely low in America, on the whole, and this is borne out by study after study after study.
You are going to have to provide some evidence showing any kind of correlation whatsoever between female homemakers and low self-esteem.
In other societies that are further along than we are, or in our own with women who are more self-possessed, I see an endless mix and match of dynamics. And it might surprise you to know that I myself am actually not an egalitarian. How that breaks down for me is not convenient to typify -- some aspects are superficially "traditional," and others are blatantly not so. But I don't prefer pure egalitarianism. I think this is common to personalities like mine; extremely proficient in some areas, but lopsided.
And what we see almost universally from societies which try to "mix up" the traditional dynamic is that it simply does not work. Basically all it results in are marriages and long term relationships in general failing en masse, with wide spread disintegration of the family unit following close on its heels (Sweden, for instance, actually has the highest divorce rate on the planet).
The vast majority of women simply do not respect subordinate men, and men simply do not tend to prefer domineering women. It's not how they're really wired.
More often than not, you wind up with a situation reminiscent of the movie "American Beauty," with the wife losing respect for her husband and looking to score a more "respectable" mate higher up the ladder, and the husband growing more and more resentful and detached as his own status diminishes.
What you promote is a dynamic which can never be "consensual" when applied to 50% of the population en masse, because it requires the woman to lack independent sustainability in the most basic survival sense, whereas the man is completely capable in this regard. An individual couple can make this decision themselves, based on trust and knowing their personal dynamic, but to apply it society-wide is an inevitable recipe for abuse, which we have seen from the unfortunate "glory days" you pine for.
When applied to a society, it is not a partnership in any sense. It is women as servants.
First off, when the heck did I suggest "imposing" anything on anyone?
Secondly, what do you think I mean by "dominant" here?
What I'm talking about is something biologically innate, not deliberate. More often than not, men simply tend to assume somewhat "dominant" roles in heterosexual relationships by default.
Why? Because they naturally tend to be a lot more assertive and interpersonally aggressive than women, and most women actually tend to prefer their men that way. As such, they tend not to resist this development when it arises in a relationship.
It seems to just be kind of the way the sexes are wired. :shrug:
There are exceptions to this rule of course, and this isn't to say that women don't tip the balance of power back in their favor in other, more subtle, ways. However, the fact that men generally do tend to be more assertive in relationships while women are more passive is more or less undeniable.
I also never said that women couldn't work or seek out fulfillment outside of the home.
Don't get me wrong. I think it is preferable that a woman try to stay closer to the home if she has children to care for, and leave most of the "bread winning" to her husband or significant other. However, there are plenty of ways to work around that these days.
A lot of women can quite easily work from home (like Chris does, for instance), or simply work part time. As a matter of fact, numerous studies have shown that most mothers don't even want to work full time with young children at home anyway.
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