Is Obama afraid of Putin?

Kobie said:

Another lie.



:citation needed:

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You're so confused you don't know if a PBR is a beer or a boat.

31 votes in and 24 are for No... seems like CON trolling is at low ebb.

Obama plays chess and is not about to rush into a trap and lose a few pawns just because that is what they are for. Reagan and BushII on the other hand thought losing pawns was fine as long as you can make speeches over them.

I really hope so, because the consequences of not respecting someone, with their finger on the annihilation button is unthinkable.

APACHERAT said:

Most of it his own blood from self inflicted wounds. You're correct that Kerry is an American hero in the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, his photograph is proudly displayed on a wall next to Jane (Hanoi) Fonda and others who gave aid and comfort to North Vietnam during the war.

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I know the difference between a beer and a River patrol boat, show me any proof there are pictures up honoring Jane Fonda and John Kerry on some Wall in Vietnam...

APACHERAT said:

Putin plays chess while Obama plays checkers.

Garry Kasparov: I'd Still Be a Soviet Citizen if Obama Had Been President Instead of Reagan

>"On February 22nd, former world chess champion and political activist Garry Kasparov intimated that if Barack Obama had been president instead of Ronald Reagan, the Soviet Union would still exist..."<

Garry Kasparov: I'd Still Be a Soviet Citizen if Obama Had Been President Instead of Reagan

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Reagan did what Reagan did during his time, and he was a good President. The same policies today would not work because it's not 1983 anymore. Reagan wanted peace most of all, but I wonder if we wouldn't all be dead if not for Gorbachev. You had two men who wanted peace and could deal with each other.

That said, I think if you listened to other things Kasparov said that weren't touted by Breitbart, you'd be dismayed because he'd firmly disagree that Putin is better than Obama. He's a big Putin hater.

Wiseone said:

There was never a risk of war between the US and Russia.

Also John Kerry is not a "self proclaimed" war hero, he's got well documented history by the US Navy of his actions during Vietnam including 3 Purple Hearts a Bronze Star and Silver Star.

Here's his Silver Star citation
.

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Here's a response to John's Silver Star.

>" Dear John,

As usual, you have it wrong. You don't have a beef with President George Bush about your war record. He's been exceedingly generous about your military service. Your complaint is with the 2.5 million of us who served honorably in a war that ended 29 years ago and which you, not the president, made the centerpiece of this campaign.

I talk to a lot of vets, John, and this really isn't about your medals or how you got them. Like you, I have a Silver Star and a Bronze Star. I only have two Purple Hearts, though. I turned down the others so that I could stay with the Marines in my rifle platoon. But I think you might agree with me, though I've never heard you say it, that the officers always got more medals than they earned and the youngsters we led never got as many medals as they deserved.

This really isn't about how early you came home from that war, either, John. There have always been guys in every war who want to go home. There are also lots of guys, like those in my rifle platoon in Vietnam, who did a full 13 months in the field. And there are, thankfully, lots of young Americans today in Iraq and Afghanistan who volunteered to return to war because, as one of them told me in Ramadi a few weeks ago, "the job isn't finished."

Nor is this about whether you were in Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968. Heck John, people get lost going on vacation. If you got lost, just say so. Your campaign has admitted that you now know that you really weren't in Cambodia that night and that Richard Nixon wasn't really president when you thought he was. Now would be a good time to explain to us how you could have all that bogus stuff "seared" into your memory -- especially since you want to have your finger on our nation's nuclear trigger.

But that's not really the problem, either. The trouble you're having, John, isn't about your medals or coming home early or getting lost -- or even Richard Nixon. The issue is what you did to us when you came home, John.

When you got home, you co-founded Vietnam Veterans Against the War and wrote "The New Soldier," which denounced those of us who served -- and were still serving -- on the battlefields of a thankless war. Worst of all, John, you then accused me -- and all of us who served in Vietnam -- of committing terrible crimes and atrocities.

On April 22, 1971, under oath, you told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that you had knowledge that American troops "had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam." And you admitted on television that "yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed."

And for good measure you stated, "(America is) more guilty than any other body, of violations of (the) Geneva Conventions ... the torture of prisoners, the killing of prisoners."

Your "antiwar" statements and activities were painful for those of us carrying the scars of Vietnam and trying to move on with our lives. And for those who were still there, it was even more hurtful. But those who suffered the most from what you said and did were the hundreds of American prisoners of war being held by Hanoi. Here's what some of them endured because of you, John:

Capt. James Warner had already spent four years in Vietnamese custody when he was handed a copy of your testimony by his captors. Warner says that for his captors, your statements "were proof I deserved to be punished." He wasn't released until March 14, 1973.

Maj. Kenneth Cordier, an Air Force pilot who was in Vietnamese custody for 2,284 days, says his captors "repeated incessantly" your one-liner about being "the last man to die" for a lost cause. Cordier was released March 4, 1973.

Navy Lt. Paul Galanti says your accusations "were as demoralizing as solitary (confinement) ... and a prime reason the war dragged on." He remained in North Vietnamese hands until February 12, 1973.

John, did you think they would forget? When Tim Russert asked about your claim that you and others in Vietnam committed "atrocities," instead of standing by your sworn testimony, you confessed that your words "were a bit over the top." Does that mean you lied under oath? Or does it mean you are a war criminal? You can't have this one both ways, John. Either way, you're not fit to be a prison guard at Abu Ghraib, much less commander in chief.

One last thing, John. In 1988, Jane Fonda said: "I would like to say something ... to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm ... very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families."

Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John? "<

rocket88 said:

Reagan did what Reagan did during his time, and he was a good President. The same policies today would not work because it's not 1983 anymore. Reagan wanted peace most of all, but I wonder if we wouldn't all be dead if not for Gorbachev. You had two men who wanted peace and could deal with each other.

That said, I think if you listened to other things Kasparov said that weren't touted by Breitbart, you'd be dismayed because he'd firmly disagree that Putin is better than Obama. He's a big Putin hater.

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I don't like Putin either, I see a KGB street thug.

But even bullies are known to be able to play chess.

Is Obama afraid of Putin? Who the hell cares? I think your concerns should be over the number of people who are losing confidence/respect in Obama in this country. There are a growing number of folks who seem to have little confidence in Obama when it comes to foreign affairs. If you want to talk polls the last Gallup suggests that to be the case.

For the first time, a majority of Americans think President Barack Obama is not respected among world leaders, according to a new poll that found opinion has plunged "dramatically" in the past year.

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Poll: U.S. thinks Obama not respected abroad - Lucy McCalmont - POLITICO.com

Now this Politico piece likes to point out Obama hasn't reached the low the GW Bush did in 2007 but then again Obama hasn't had a nightly drum beat of disdain from the MSM as Bush received altering/changing public opinion. Even with the MSM cheerleaders Obama has been sinking quick. One can only hope that the masses have come to realize what Hopey and Changey really meant like some of us have from the beginning.


Fifty-three percent now say Obama is not respected on the international stage, up from 43 percent a year ago, the Gallup poll on Monday shows. And the number who say they believe the president is respected has dropped to 41 percent from 51 percent over the same time, the poll found.

vesper said:

Is Obama afraid of Putin? Who the hell cares? I think your concerns should be over the number of people who are losing confidence/respect in Obama in this country. There are a growing number of folks who seem to have little confidence in Obama when it comes to foreign affairs. If you want to talk polls the last Gallup suggests that to be the case.



Poll: U.S. thinks Obama not respected abroad - Lucy McCalmont - POLITICO.com

Now this Politico piece likes to point out Obama hasn't reached the low the GW Bush did in 2007 but then again Obama hasn't had a nightly drum beat of disdain from the MSM as Bush received altering/changing public opinion. Even with the MSM cheerleaders Obama has been sinking quick. One can only hope that the masses have come to realize what Hopey and Changey really meant like some of us have from the beginning.


Fifty-three percent now say Obama is not respected on the international stage, up from 43 percent a year ago, the Gallup poll on Monday shows. And the number who say they believe the president is respected has dropped to 41 percent from 51 percent over the same time, the poll found.

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I don't know what a poll of Americans about what they think non-Americans think of Obama really tells us.

MoSurveyor said:

One only has to look at a current map to know that N Vietnam was a threat.

Saddam in 2002? Not so much. We already had him pinned.

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How did that map threat work out? Was it worth over 58,000 American, and over 1,000,000 Vietnamese lives?

How did that map threat progress after the US pulled out in 1975?

How many goods do you own that were...

APACHERAT said:

You're correct that Kerry is an American hero in the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, his photograph is proudly displayed on a wall next to Jane (Hanoi) Fonda and others who gave aid and comfort to North Vietnam during the war.

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Yeah, because anybody actually using their right to free speech to criticize the government or it's actions should be shot! :lol:

Μολὼν λαβέ;1062965717 said:

How did that map threat work out? Was it worth over 58,000 American, and over 1,000,000 Vietnamese lives?

How did that map threat progress after the US pulled out in 1975?

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At the time? Yes, it was. Vietnam wasn't a war of American Imperialism. South Vietnam had been it's own UN recognized country for over a decade, a result of the break-up of European empires, the French in this case, who had been there for decades prior.

Iraq II on the other hand was a trumped up war where we "invaded" a foreign country that was already pinned down.

Μολὼν λαβέ;1062965717 said:

How many goods do you own that were...

View attachment 67162591

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Don't care. It's been almost 40 years, now. Truth be told, though, I'd rather see them made in Vietnam than China.

MoSurveyor said:

Yeah, because anybody actually using their right to free speech to criticize the government or it's actions should be shot! :lol:

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Kerry took it further, he criticized the American soldier while they were still on the battlefield accusing 2.5 million Americans of atrocities that 99.99% never committed.

APACHERAT said:

Kerry took it further, he criticized the American soldier while they were still on the battlefield accusing 2.5 million Americans of atrocities that 99.99% never committed.

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That wasn't exactly what happened but, yes, he opposed the war and "ratted out" the military. However, he was no longer in the service and had every right to publicly talk about his experiences. That's called freedom of speech. It's easy to support freedoms during the easy times but the true test of any country (just like people) is how it reacts in the tough spots.

We saw this same crap recently in relation to Iraq II. People that spoke out against the war were called "anti-American". Sorry, that kind of behavior is about as American as you can get - assuming we really are the Land of the Free as we claim.


So, again, I say it was his right - and the right of the others who also protested the war - to speak their mind as they saw fit.

MoSurveyor said:

That wasn't exactly what happened but, yes, he opposed the war and "ratted out" the military. However, he was no longer in the service and had every right to publicly talk about his experiences. That's called freedom of speech. It's easy to support freedoms during the easy times but the true test of any country (just like people) is how it reacts in the tough spots.

We saw this same crap recently in relation to Iraq II. People that spoke out against the war were called "anti-American". Sorry, that kind of behavior is about as American as you can get - assuming we really are the Land of the Free as we claim.


So, again, I say it was his right - and the right of the others who also protested the war - to speak their mind as they saw fit.

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Not correct, Kerry was still a commissioned officer in the Navy Reserves.

This could be why Kerry refused to release all of his SRB to the public.

Did the Navy come down on Kerry after giving aid and comfort to the enemy ?

Could explain why Sec. of the Navy, John Lehman signature is on Kerry's Honorable Discharge Certificate. Lehman was Sec. of the Navy during the Reagan administration years after Kerry's reserve obligations would have ended.

Did Kerry receive an administrative discharge for violating military regulations for example meeting in person with the enemy during the Paris Peace Talks ?

A DD-214 doesn't show what actions or discharge one received in the reserves back then. The DD-214 is only involved with active duty status.

There was an amnesty back in the 70's where anyone with less than an HD could get that discharge up graded to the next higher discharge.

Navy Pride said:

They might have disliked him but unlike Obama they respected him.

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What the **** are you talking about? Do you hear yourself?

Putin invaded Georgia and bombed Chechnya during Bush's reign.

France and Germany gave Bush the finger when he asked for their help in Iraq.

Britain pretty much bossed Bush around and convinced him to give British firms an unequally large portion of the contracts in Iraq.

I seriously cannot believe what I'm hearing.

APACHERAT said:

Not correct, Kerry was still a commissioned officer in the Navy Reserves.

This could be why Kerry refused to release all of his SRB to the public.

Did the Navy come down on Kerry after giving aid and comfort to the enemy ?

Could explain why Sec. of the Navy, John Lehman signature is on Kerry's Honorable Discharge Certificate. Lehman was Sec. of the Navy during the Reagan administration years after Kerry's reserve obligations would have ended.

Did Kerry receive an administrative discharge for violating military regulations for example meeting in person with the enemy during the Paris Peace Talks ?

A DD-214 doesn't show what actions or discharge one received in the reserves back then. The DD-214 is only involved with active duty status.

There was an amnesty back in the 70's where anyone with less than an HD could get that discharge up graded to the next higher discharge.

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"giving aid and comfort to the enemy"? Quit being so dramatic. :roll:

As for the rest I was unaware that Kerry had stayed in the reserves - but weren't you guys whining just awhile back about some guy that was in the news for posting his opinions of the president on a website - while on active duty and advertising his military status? Pretty sure you were. Yet you argued that was NOT insubordination. Interesting how you guys change your tune when it suits.

I'm "afraid of" Obama, never know when he'll pull another stupid move like Libya, or the escalation of AfPak.
He got lucky on Syria, whenthe Russian drove a truck thru Kerry's statements about how Syria can avoid
"degrading" by removing all chem weapons. Obama had no Congressional support though, so he prolly couldn't have done much but shoot off his mouth.

Looks like he might finally be coming to his senses - although the CIA was sending small arms across the Jordanian border to Syria, that was awhile ago.

I do kina worry he's going a bit to far cutting the navy down to about 200 ships; though I'm OK with the troop reductions.

Putin is trying to expand Russian influence and has done a pretty good job despite his limited budget, and access to a blue water navy.
China is the next player - they are building up both there navy and land forces - so we need to rely on technical superiority.

Might all work out, if we just stay out of foreign wars that are none of our doing/business

MoSurveyor said:

"giving aid and comfort to the enemy"? Quit being so dramatic. :roll:

As for the rest I was unaware that Kerry had stayed in the reserves - but weren't you guys whining just awhile back about some guy that was in the news for posting his opinions of the president on a website - while on active duty and advertising his military status? Pretty sure you were. Yet you argued that was NOT insubordination. Interesting how you guys change your tune when it suits.

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Insubordination ?

Not aware of who you're referring to.

Are you referring to a Marine NCO who told the truth about his CnC and Obama got his feelings hurt and ordered that the Marine be court Martial ?

Not comparable to Lt.Cmdr. Kerry USNR while under oath lying to Congress.

Let me say this. if Obama had to do a fist fight with Putin, or any kind of fight, mano-a-mano, then yes, he'd be scared ****less.

But he isn't. Why should he be afraid of another president? this is the kind of infantile dialogue that is supposed to dismiss the "other team" based on faulty notions that don't stand up if you give it a bit of thought.

I think that our "very conservative" NP confuses fear and respect....or does not know their meanings..

Navy Pride said:

They might have disliked him but unlike Obama they respected him.

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Sorry to disappoint you, but he was actually considered to be a 'very dangerous' laughing stock. You also confuse fear with respect, there was an abundance of 'fear' for what crazy ass war he would start next!

Paul

APACHERAT said:

Insubordination ?

Not aware of who you're referring to.

Are you referring to a Marine NCO who told the truth about his CnC and Obama got his feelings hurt and ordered that the Marine be court Martial ?

Not comparable to Lt.Cmdr. Kerry USNR while under oath lying to Congress.

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Of course it's not the same thing. The NCO is doing something you approve of so it's OK.

You have no proof of that. If there was proof Congress would have acted. It's not like they've never called someone on the carpet for perjury.

Of course, the idea that Obama himself ordered some Marine court martialed for speaking ill of him is yet another in a long, long list of lies from APACHE.