• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should I turn in my brother for food stamp fraud?

What should I do?

  • Turn in my brother and his sons.

    Votes: 2 4.8%
  • Turn in my brother, his sons, and store

    Votes: 4 9.5%
  • Turn in the store

    Votes: 20 47.6%
  • Do nothing at all.

    Votes: 16 38.1%

  • Total voters
    42
No store owner, especially one with a beer license would risk their business for a short sale on beer and cigs.
Most of all it would be impossible to ring up on an EBT card.
I know people who are using food EBT cards and there are ways to work around the safeguards... this isn't one of them.
What stops the clerk from ringing up a pack of cigs as vegetables?Also in some states EBT is not just food but cash assistance as well.

Millions commit food stamp fraud every year - Story
Ohio food stamp recipients waste millions of U.S. tax dollars buying guns, drugs, beer - Story
I-Team: Food stamp fraud continues despite electronic tracking - I-Team Story
http://am.blogs.cnn.com/2010/07/20/scammed-your-tax-dollars-buying-smokes-beer/
You have been duped by an ingenuous poster who has presented an invented conundrum for his own amusement.
He is ****ing with you.

Do you have any evidence of this?
 

The pattern would become evident in expected inventories. What would be the motivation for the employee to frequently do this?
 
The pattern would become evident in expected inventories. What would be the motivation for the employee to frequently do this?

Money.Pretty obvious.
 
Money.Pretty obvious.

The employee would be getting money from the transaction how?

By the way, I knew money would be the motivator, I just didn't see how money was going to flow into the hands of the employee.
 
The employee would be getting money from the transaction how?

By the way, I knew money would be the motivator, I just didn't see how money was going to flow into the hands of the employee.

1.In many places the clerk is also the person who owns the store.
2.Perhaps the clerk knows the people going through the check out line and gets a cut.
3.Many people probably don't say anything out of fear of losing their job or just do not care.
 
1.In many places the clerk is also the person who owns the store.
2.Perhaps the clerk knows the people going through the check out line and gets a cut.
3.Many people probably don't say anything out of fear of losing their job or just do not care.

Should our goal be to reduce fraud? Or should it be to eliminate it?
 
Should our goal be to reduce fraud? Or should it be to eliminate it?

Our goal should be to eliminate it.But sometimes you have to settle for just reducing it.
 
What's the objective here. To provide assistance for essentials until that person can get themselves back into a position where they can provide those things for themselves. If they decide that their essentials are beer and cigarettes (now keep in mind we're not talking about meth here, it's beer and cigs) then fine. You are free to make your own stupid choices. In the long run what they decide are essentials has not impact on the outcome.

Actually no, that's not the objective at all and the folks given the aid are well informed that it is only for the purchase of certain defined goods. They do still have the freedom to make stupid choices (between some junk and real foods), but those choices are restricted by agreement when they are receiving the aid.
 
As the old saying goes - "you can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family".

However, you can treat family like you would treat friends (excluding spouses and children, because you've made a lifetime commitment to them).

If a friend does something wrong that affects you and after you tell them it's wrong they still do it, you have the option of taking your friendship elsewhere. Since this brother and his sons aren't your responsibility and they live out of state from you, I'd simply put it down to behaviour you're never going to change and distance yourself from that behaviour.

If three able bodied adult males are getting food stamps there's much more wrong with the program than some beer and cigarettes.
 
Here is the situation. My brother and his sons live in another state. My sister passed away this month from lung cancer. I traveled there for the funeral and to visit. When I got there i found my brother and two of his sons had not eaten for two days. So i went out and picked up some burgers. After they had eaten I took my brother and his sons in my rental car, none of them have a car, to buy groceries which I gladly paid for. On the way back they asked me to stop at a store so i did. They came out with beer and cigaretts. Well needless to say i was pissed. I asked, how can you afford beer and cigaretts but can't afford food. My brother responded "the store accepted his food stamp card for beer and smokes, isn't that cool" I said hell no its not cool. My brother and his adult sons are on food stamps. So what am I to do. Turn in my brother and his sons.

I am confused. You went to your sister's funeral and you brother and his adult sons live there. They are on food stamps. They haven't eaten so I can assume there was no food after the funeral? So you went to a store to buy groceries and then on the way home from a store they asked to stop at a store????? You didn't ask why before they went in? Did you not know they had these "food stamps"? Anyway, I find the story wanting.
 
THE POVERTY LINE
Six Myths About Food Stamps
October 8, 2013
by Dave Johnson
This post first appeared in AlterNet.

(Michael Stravato/ AP Images for ALDI)
In the middle of the worst economy and job situation in decades Republicans in the House voted to cut $40 billion from food stamps. This will kick 3.8 million people out of the program by 2014, then 3 million more each year after.

Republicans in Congress have blocked every effort to help the economy. They block bills to create jobs by fixing our crumbling infrastructure because it’s “government spending.” At the same time, right-wing outlets (accurately) complain that the economy is so weak that millions are hurting. And then the same Republicans who blocked efforts to help the economy cut assistance to the people who are hurting, claiming they don’t really need the help. No shame. In the months leading up to this vote, right-wing outlets such as Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, RedState and the rest of the far-right propaganda machine invented a number of justifications for cutting the program. Here is a take-down of some of those myths and lies.

Myth #1: Food stamps are “growing exponentially” because of waste and fraud.
Actually, the SNAP (food stamp) program is doing exactly what it is supposed to do and what a democracy would ask of it. It is helping people who need the help.

Last March the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP) responded to the charges that the program’s growth is out of control, reporting that:

SNAP has responded effectively to the recession.
What about “fraud?” Implicit in the accusation that the program is “growing exponentially” is the idea that the program is rife with fraud and waste. But the fraud and waste rate in the SNAP program is less than one percent. The Department of Agriculture (USDA) administers the SNAP program. They say the fraud rate “has fallen significantly over the last two decades, from about four cents on the dollar in 1993 to about one cent in 2006-08 (most recent data available).”



Myth #2: Cutting food stamps will make people get jobs because able-bodied people are getting food stamps instead of working.

Republicans call food stamps “welfare” and called the bill cutting food stamps the “Work Opportunity Act.” The idea is that after five years of recession and with 11.3 million people unemployed — 4.3 million out of work for 27 weeks or more — along with 7.9 million people working part-time but looking for full-time and another 2.3 million “marginally attached,” what the country needs is even more hungry people.

Actually, even though many on food stamps are children, elderly, disabled or temporarily unemployed, lots of people who use food stamps already are working. According to Feeding America “76 percent of SNAP households included a child, an elderly person or a disabled person. These vulnerable households receive 83 percent of all SNAP benefits.” According to the USDA, “Over 30 percent of SNAP households had earnings in 2011 and 41 percent of all SNAP participants lived in a household with earnings.”

One more thing, people don’t get very much food stamp money: four percent get only $16 a month. The average household gets $281 a month. The average individual gets about $133 a month.

Would you quit work or refuse a job for $133 a month which can only be used to buy food?

Myth #3: Food stamps make people “dependent.”

Rep. Mike Cramer (R-ND) recently served up an example of right-wing mythology, saying that food stamps are responsible for “a culture of permanent dependency.”

The right-wing Heritage Foundation and others constantly harp on this idea that democracies providing government services for people makes them “dependent” — as if people are squirrels who will lose the ability to find their own food in the wild.


If anyone is “dependent,” it is corporations that pay so little their employees have to come to the taxpayers for help buying food for their families.

Myth #4: Food stamps are about politicians “buying votes” with other people’s money.

Amplifying the “dependency” argument, conservatives disparage democracy by saying that elected officials “buy votes” by providing food to hungry people — and other government services.

The Christian Post has an example, in “Signing Up Seniors for Food Stamps Is Called ‘Buying Votes’ for Obama, Says Fox News Host.” The story reports that Fox News’ Stuart Varney says, ”The AARP, huge support[er]s of President Obama, politically and financially, big supporters of Obamacare. And now they’re out there signing people up for food stamps. This is part of the buy-the-vote campaign. They’re really shifting America, changing what America really is,” he said.

Far-right Brietbart blasts, “HOW MANY VOTES WILL A 70 PERCENT INCREASE IN FOOD STAMPS BUY?” Similarly the right-wing Washington Times says, “Food stamps for votes.”

The idea of a democracy is that people vote for the things they want, everyone has an equal vote, everyone pitches in and everyone shares in the resulting prosperity. Government spending in a democracy is, by definition, ‘We the People’ doing things to make our lives better. But to conservatives, government doing things that make our lives better is just “buying votes.”

Myth #5: Food stamp recipients take drugs.

The Republican bill to cut food stamps also will “allow states to require food stamp recipients to be tested for drugs.”

Harold Pollack and Sheldon Danziger at The Washington Post look at this in “House Republicans want drug tests for food-stamp recipients. There’s no good reason for that.” They write, “Using 2011 data from the National Survey of Drug Use and Health (NSDUH), we looked at the behaviors and circumstances of adults ages 18-64 whose households received SNAP. We examined whether respondents had used some illicit substance during the previous month or year. We then looked at whether they met screening criteria for abuse or dependence on alcohol or illicit drugs.”




Myth #6: People use food stamps to buy cigarettes and alcohol.

Conservatives have widely circulated stories about people using food stamps to buy cigarettes and alcohol. The Blaze trumpets stories like, “THIS 65-YEAR-OLD CLERK WAS FIRED FOR REFUSING TO SELL CIGARETTES TO A FOOD STAMP CUSTOMER” and outlets like Fox echo it. These kinds of stories are everywhere in the right-wing echo chamber.

Here are the facts: According to USDA, households may use food stamps to buy foods, such as breads and cereals; fruits and vegetables; meats, fish and poultry; and dairy products. Also they can buy seeds and plants which produce food to eat. (In some areas, restaurants can be authorized to accept SNAP benefits from qualified homeless, elderly or disabled people in exchange for low-cost meals.)

Households may not use food stamps to buy beer, wine, liquor, cigarettes or tobacco; pet foods; soaps, paper products; household supplies; vitamins and medicines; food that will be eaten in the store; hot foods.


So here we are in the worst economy in many decades. It’s more than difficult to find a job. Wages are actually falling for 95 percent of us. We have the highest income and wealth inequality since just before the depression.

Meanwhile, according to the National Priorities Project the government is handing over $1 trillion a year to the wealthiest and corporations in the form of “tax expenditures.” Then there is that $450 billion a year that the IRS just fails to collect. The corporate foreign-income tax “deferral” has corporations holding as much as $2 trillion of taxable income outside the country. And hedge-fund managers making into the billions each year still get their Romney-style tax breaks.

Yet Republicans are picking on the poorest citizens, lying and smearing them as lazy druggies and blaming them for the high unemployment by saying that $133 a month is keeping them from bothering to look for a job. Why do we put up with this?
 
Last edited:
I am confused. You went to your sister's funeral and you brother and his adult sons live there. They are on food stamps. They haven't eaten so I can assume there was no food after the funeral? So you went to a store to buy groceries and then on the way home from a store they asked to stop at a store????? You didn't ask why before they went in? Did you not know they had these "food stamps"? Anyway, I find the story wanting.
Ya Think???
 
As the old saying goes - "you can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family".

And here I thought it was, "You can pick your nose but you can't pick your family". :mrgreen:
 
Don't know ...don't care ...
I just know a BS story laden with political agenda when I see one.
You have been duped.

The story could be BS, as you claim, without SgtRocks being the one BSing. It's quite possible that the brother and sons had cash, for beer and cigarettes, but told SR that they didn't have money for food - SR, good soul that he is, drove out and got them food but then the fools got him to drive them by the liquor store for beer and cigarettes and they told him the story about the food stamps so that he wouldn't be mad that they had money they didn't tell him about. It wouldn't be the first time a family member lied to another and it wouldn't be the first time a family member took advantage of a another family member who's kind hearted and better off.
 
It had to be very disheartening to have a brother lie to you and claim he and his full grown sons haven't eaten for two days because they had no money then turn around and use food stamps to buy beer and cigarettes after taking them to the store to buy groceries and pay for lunch. How sad especially when you consider the occasion was such a somber one burying their sister. I don't have it in me to turn in a brother but I would sure give him a piece of my mind. What a user.
 
Last edited:
Federal push targets food stamp fraud
December 8, 2013 11:19 PM
Share with others:

By Rich Lord / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Federal agencies investigating food stamp fraud have begun bringing cases -- and convictions -- in a push that is likely to mean charges against more retailers that trade the federal benefit for cigarettes or cash.

Last week, a federal grand jury indicted Waqar A. Malik, 56, of Cheswick for alleged food stamp fraud and theft of government funds, following an investigation by Pittsburgh's Internal Revenue Service Criminal Investigations unit. That came just days after a brother-sister shopkeeping team was sentenced to probation on similar charges.

Special Agent Grant Friday of the U.S. Department of Agriculture Office of Inspector General said the cases are in part the result of the opening of an office of his agency in Pittsburgh in 2010. Food stamps are "one of our main program areas that we investigate," he said.

The latest person charged, Mr. Malik, ran Natrona Mart in Natrona Heights, according to the indictment.

He sold thousands of dollars worth of cigarettes for payment in Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program benefits -- commonly known as food stamps -- then disguised the transactions as food sales to get government reimbursement, according to the indictment. The charges listed sales of more than $300 worth of cigarettes for food stamps in just two days in April.

Mr. Malik could not be reached for comment.

Stanley Saxton and Nicole Gordon, a brother and sister who emigrated from Jamaica and became citizens, were ordered last week to pay back $119,871 in food stamp benefits that they illegally converted into cash. U.S. District Judge Maurice B. Cohill sentenced both to two years of probation including five months of home detention.

Saxton, 44, and Gordon, 34, both of Verona, ran the Wilkinsburg store known as Nicky's Corner. They allowed customers to sell food stamp credits for roughly 50 cents on the dollar, then got government reimbursement for the full amount of the benefit. Both pleaded guilty to conspiracy.

Defense attorney Samuel Reich, who represented Saxton and Gordon, said that the new USDA office "sent undercover agents out and they got evidence against a number of stores."

He added that Nicky's Corner will continue to operate, though it is barred from accepting food stamps.

According to the USDA, 47.6 million Americans get around $75 billion a year in food stamps, and an estimated $858 million is "trafficked" into improper uses.

That translates to around 1.3 percent of the program's funds misspent annually. That's down from estimated 4 percent loss rates in the 1990s, but up from historically low rates of 1 percent before 2009. The USDA attributes the uptick to an increase in the number of small- and mid-sized retailers who are accepting food stamps.


The first food stamp fraud cases in recent memory in Western Pennsylvania were filed in March.

Two Brentwood men who ran separate small grocery stores in the South Hills were indicted for wire fraud and food stamp fraud.

Samson Dweh, then 30, who ran Mariama African Store in Carrick, is scheduled to plead guilty in February. He started accepting food stamps in February 2009, and in August 2010 started paying customers around 50 cents on each dollar of benefit they sought to cash in, according to the indictment against him.

He then billed the USDA as if all of the benefits were redeemed for food, obtaining more than $200,000, "a substantial portion of such benefits having been unlawfully purchased for cash," according to the indictment.

Emile Bizimungu, then 31, ran the Dollar Grocery Center in Mount Oliver, according to the indictment against him. Starting in 2011, he began trading benefits for cash, and the total reached more than $40,000, according to the charges.

He has pleaded not guilty, and the assistant federal public defender representing him could not be reached for comment.



Read more: Federal push targets food stamp fraud - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
 
:shrug: If they want beer and smokes that bad, they will get them. They'll trade groceries they bought for them with other individuals.

If they're criminally inclined, they'll steal them, or steal stuff to sell to buy beer and smokes.

You can't stop vice. Might as well just shrug and roll with it. Personally I'd be less bothered by them using some of their snap allowance for beer/smokes than stealing for it.

Just because we cannot stop vice does not mean that we should permit it or not enforce the laws on the books or report violations as good citizens. This business is essentially stealing by taking government money for things that the government does not pay for through EBT. It's also doing a disservice to the children because it appears that the father is not using EBT to buy food, but to buy alcohol and cigs. Both are stealing and committing fraud and it's the citizens that are being wrong along with the kids. The establishment should not be allowed to continue to do this and should be reported.
 
Just because we cannot stop vice does not mean that we should permit it or not enforce the laws on the books or report violations as good citizens. This business is essentially stealing by taking government money for things that the government does not pay for through EBT. It's also doing a disservice to the children because it appears that the father is not using EBT to buy food, but to buy alcohol and cigs. Both are stealing and committing fraud and it's the citizens that are being wrong along with the kids. The establishment should not be allowed to continue to do this and should be reported.


in case you missed it, the children are adults in this case.

and given all the things we have to worry about, some guy spending some portion of his snap on smokes and beer just doesn't concern me that much. Certainly not enough that I'd rat out family for it.
 
Actually no, that's not the objective at all and the folks given the aid are well informed that it is only for the purchase of certain defined goods. They do still have the freedom to make stupid choices (between some junk and real foods), but those choices are restricted by agreement when they are receiving the aid.

I understand what you saying regarding the rules for receiving food stamps and they have clearly violated them. I personally would never do it because I am way too straight when it comes to this stuff. It's just not a big enough deal to me, to make a fuss over. I would take it more seriously if they were lying about their need, or faking a disability. But nothing was provided to suggest something more serious like that.
 
in case you missed it, the children are adults in this case.

and given all the things we have to worry about, some guy spending some portion of his snap on smokes and beer just doesn't concern me that much. Certainly not enough that I'd rat out family for it.

Hey G, tell that guy to keep his hands off my vices. We've become very attached over the years.
 
The larger impact is already here and your corrupt president is doing nothing but enjoying making it worse. When does he start leading the way?

I haven't voted in a presidential election since 2000. There hasn't been anyone worth voting for. Instead of trying to deflect answer this. How much theft do you consider too much. How much money are you willing to let someone steal from you. Or are you one of those closet liberals. Theft is theft
 
Just because we cannot stop vice does not mean that we should permit it or not enforce the laws on the books or report violations as good citizens. This business is essentially stealing by taking government money for things that the government does not pay for through EBT. It's also doing a disservice to the children because it appears that the father is not using EBT to buy food, but to buy alcohol and cigs. Both are stealing and committing fraud and it's the citizens that are being wrong along with the kids. The establishment should not be allowed to continue to do this and should be reported.

So you are saying you could rat your good for nothing brother out? I couldn't. Even though I know what they were doing was wrong, I couldn't be the one to turn them in. But the OP has one small thing to be thankful for and that is he lives in another state with enough distance he doesn't have to put up with him. You know one way of ending this abuse of food stamps is to relinquish federal power over all welfare programs and allow the states complete authority/responsibility. Fraud would be slashed in no time.
 
Back
Top Bottom