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Should I turn in my brother for food stamp fraud?

What should I do?

  • Turn in my brother and his sons.

    Votes: 2 4.8%

  • Turn in my brother, his sons, and store

    Votes: 4 9.5%

  • Turn in the store

    Votes: 20 47.6%

  • Do nothing at all.

    Votes: 16 38.1%
  • Total voters
    42
digsbe said:
Turn in the store, they shouldn't be taking food stamps. I don't think it would be unreasonable to report your brother too, but personally I would report the store first.
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Once again, doing one is doing the other. Best to treat it like one would a family alcoholic. Love em but refuse support their behavior, make that clear.
 
SgtRock said:
Here is the situation. My brother and his sons live in another state. My sister passed away this month from lung cancer. I traveled there for the funeral and to visit. When I got there i found my brother and two of his sons had not eaten for two days. So i went out and picked up some burgers. After they had eaten I took my brother and his sons in my rental car, none of them have a car, to buy groceries which I gladly paid for. On the way back they asked me to stop at a store so i did. They came out with beer and cigaretts. Well needless to say i was pissed. I asked, how can you afford beer and cigaretts but can't afford food. My brother responded "the store accepted his food stamp card for beer and smokes, isn't that cool" I said hell no its not cool. My brother and his adult sons are on food stamps. So what am I to do. Turn in my brother and his sons.
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I would not do anything unless I had proof, actually witnessed the illegal transaction. People brag about stuff that isn't true all the time. It's possible that your brother had cash and lied to you.


Remember. Everything is computerized these days. It's highly unlikely that beer and cigs, both highly taxed items, were rang up as food.
 
MaggieD said:
I'm suggesting mind your own business. ;)
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I am minding my business. This became my business when I purchased groceries for my brother then he bought beer and smokes with his food stamp. Do you approve of people using your tax dollars to buy beer anew cigaretts?
 
SgtRock said:
Here is the situation. My brother and his sons live in another state. My sister passed away this month from lung cancer. I traveled there for the funeral and to visit. When I got there i found my brother and two of his sons had not eaten for two days. So i went out and picked up some burgers. After they had eaten I took my brother and his sons in my rental car, none of them have a car, to buy groceries which I gladly paid for. On the way back they asked me to stop at a store so i did. They came out with beer and cigaretts. Well needless to say i was pissed. I asked, how can you afford beer and cigaretts but can't afford food. My brother responded "the store accepted his food stamp card for beer and smokes, isn't that cool" I said hell no its not cool. My brother and his adult sons are on food stamps. So what am I to do. Turn in my brother and his sons.
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now it was a very STUPID choice to get those items when he need food but im curious
what fraud did your brother commit?
what fraud did his sons commit?
 
vasuderatorrent said:
Thanks for the non-response. There is a way saying, "If you have nothing to say, then say nothing. It's a lot less ridiculous that way."
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On one hand, one extreme, if you will, he can turn in his family, risking driving a wedge between themselves.

On the other hand...the opposite extreme, he can do nothing, which would sit heavy with him.

And in the MIDDLE of those two choices...turn in the store, retaining his relationship with his family while preventing them from committing further fraud.

This should have been QUITE clear in light of my post IMMEDIATELY prior to this one.
 
AGENT J said:
now it was a very STUPID choice to get those items when he need food but im curious
what fraud did your brother commit?
what fraud did his sons commit?
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I think the issue is that they did not use the food stamps for food but for beer and cigs
 
Help your brother and his sons find full time jobs. Then they can buy their own groceries, beer and smokes.
 
opendebate said:
I think the issue is that they did not use the food stamps for food but for beer and cigs
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well that is retarded and a dick move and i get that part but i dont see the factual fraud on the dads or kids part.

I just see the dad being an irresponsible assclown.

now if the store in fact broke the law then it should be turned in
if it didnt break the law, the laws need changed
 
opendebate said:
I think the issue is that they did not use the food stamps for food but for beer and cigs
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I hate it when other people have fun and enjoy their vices. I just lie awake at night worrying that someone, somewhere, is enjoying a beer and a smoke, and it just pisses me off.



:lamo


In other words... frack it. If they want to buy beer and smokes instead of food, their problem. They have only so much food stamp allowance; if they prefer to drink some of it, I really don't care much.
 
clownboy said:
I take it since they are living on beer and cigs that none of these kids are minors? If that is the case, tell them what they are doing is abhorrant and you'll have no further part in it. Tell them to give you a call when they get their act together, their priorities straight, but until then, they're on their own. Make it clear you are not available for bail money.

You can still love them, but you don't have to participate in their road to ruin.
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Best answer. It's family, so you cut them some slack. At the same time your word matters and you should let them know that you don't approve and that you will not enable the behavior. If family can't set them straight it isn't going to happen.
 
clownboy said:
Once again, doing one is doing the other. Best to treat it like one would a family alcoholic. Love em but refuse support their behavior, make that clear.
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The difference between an alcoholic though is in this case, the store is illegal using taxpayer money to purchase alcohol and cigs with EBT cards. That's harming the community and abusing money that does cost the taxpayer and society. Odds are if they do it for one person they are doing it for everyone that asks.
 
clownboy said:
Once again, doing one is doing the other. Best to treat it like one would a family alcoholic. Love em but refuse support their behavior, make that clear.
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don't think it is one in the same
it might be if the store was reported, was placed under surveillance, and the brother showed up to to participate in an illicit exchange of food stamps for ineligible items
but if your brother is stupid enough to do that then he deserves to be caught. only not by his brother ratting him out

i work with Montagnard refugees from vietnam. last year one if the men was sent a letter from social services asking him to come in to discuss his SNAP (food stamp) purchases
he asked me to attend. i did; with his daughter, who speaks both gharai (their native language) and english
this fellow was concerned. as a refugee he feels vulnerable to the system. he wanted me there so that i could explain what was going on
turns out, social services put him thru this ordeal, losing a day's work/wages, to ask him if he observed any inappropriate transactions while shopping at the asian food store he frequents. seems the department had received a tip that the operator was allowing food stamps to be used to purchase ineligible items
my friend said 'no', he was unaware of this
but it seemed a weird way to investigate. now, what is to prevent word from getting back to the store owner that he is under scrutiny. or maybe that was the intent. to cause him to be more discrete in his illegal behavior
 
AGENT J said:
well that is retarded and a dick move and i get that part but i dont see the factual fraud on the dads or kids part.

I just see the dad being an irresponsible assclown.

now if the store in fact broke the law then it should be turned in
if it didnt break the law, the laws need changed
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The fraud is that the recipient of the food stamps is not supposed to use it for anything but food. If they knowingly violated that guideline then that would be what he is calling fraud.

The store is committing fraud by accepting the EBT for items they are not suppose to accept those funds for.

This is a weird OP. There are a lot of details missing that would help people respond. Like, how long have they been receiving EBT. Did they kind of fall apart when they lost his sister so this is a recent thing and they are not at their best right now? Are they looking for work but having no luck? etc.

I'm not that black and white on these things. I was out with my sister one day and I gave a bum 20 bucks. She said, why do you give him money you know he's just gonna use it for alcohol. Yeah, I don't care. I gave him money because I had it and he needed it. If he determines that what he wants from that 20 bucks is a bottle of booze well, that's up to him. I can't control that outcome and I acted according to my conscience. Better then doing nothing.
 
digsbe said:
The difference between an alcoholic though is in this case, the store is illegal using taxpayer money to purchase alcohol and cigs with EBT cards. That's harming the community and abusing money that does cost the taxpayer and society. Odds are if they do it for one person they are doing it for everyone that asks.
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Rock and hard place here. If you dime out the store you also dime out your family.
 
justabubba said:
don't think it is one in the same
it might be if the store was reported, was placed under surveillance, and the brother showed up to to participate in an illicit exchange of food stamps for ineligible items
but if your brother is stupid enough to do that then he deserves to be caught. only not by his brother ratting him out

i work with Montagnard refugees from vietnam. last year one if the men was sent a letter from social services asking him to come in to discuss his SNAP (food stamp) purchases
he asked me to attend. i did; with his daughter, who speaks both gharai (their native language) and english
this fellow was concerned. as a refugee he feels vulnerable to the system. he wanted me there so that i could explain what was going on
turns out, social services put him thru this ordeal, losing a day's work/wages, to ask him if he observed any inappropriate transactions while shopping at the asian food store he frequents. seems the department had received a tip that the operator was allowing food stamps to be used to purchase ineligible items
my friend said 'no', he was unaware of this
but it seemed a weird way to investigate. now, what is to prevent word from getting back to the store owner that he is under scrutiny. or maybe that was the intent. to cause him to be more discrete in his illegal behavior
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It's a bit different now with the cards. Again, one of the first things a state investigator would do is to pull the purchase records. Easy thing to do with the cards.
 
Goshin said:
I hate it when other people have fun and enjoy their vices. I just lie awake at night worrying that someone, somewhere, is enjoying a beer and a smoke, and it just pisses me off.

:lamo

In other words... frack it. If they want to buy beer and smokes instead of food, their problem. They have only so much food stamp allowance; if they prefer to drink some of it, I really don't care much.
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Exactly! That's how I feel about it. It's weird to me how so many people scream about their choices not being forced on them but for some reason these guys have surrendered that same right because they are down and out. Seems hypocritical
 
opendebate said:
1.)The fraud is that the recipient of the food stamps is not supposed to use it for anything but food. If they knowingly violated that guideline then that would be what he is calling fraud.

2.) The store is committing fraud by accepting the EBT for items they are not suppose to accept those funds for.

3.) This is a weird OP. There are a lot of details missing that would help people respond. Like, how long have they been receiving EBT. Did they kind of fall apart when they lost his sister so this is a recent thing and they are not at their best right now? Are they looking for work but having no luck? etc.

4.)I'm not that black and white on these things. I was out with my sister one day and I gave a bum 20 bucks. She said, why do you give him money you know he's just gonna use it for alcohol. Yeah, I don't care. I gave him money because I had it and he needed it. If he determines that what he wants from that 20 bucks is a bottle of booze well, that's up to him. I can't control that outcome and I acted according to my conscience. Better then doing nothing.
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1.) and thats it, "knowingly" again i'm not condoning his actions im saying when he uses the card if the store, or better yet the machine accepts it how is he to know.
the store and machine should not accept it. AGain not condoning it but i dont see anyway of charging him really and certainly no way of convicting him. and especially his sons.

2.) if this is in fact the law i agree with it, not only is the store at fault but id like to know how the machine accepts it, im sure it would be VERY easy for the machine/card to reject it

i have a visa card that is a prepaid medical card. For all purposes it looks like a visa. money is removed from my pay PRETAX and dropped into it. But if i accidentally use it in the wrong place or even use it in the right places but try to put something on it thats actually not covered it gets immediately rejected.

why is this not the same?

3.) i agree it is also a weird OP. And more details would be nice but if i was in that situation i turn in the store no matter what.

4.) I myself at times have operated in the grey and its how live is, Even it got it in my sig :)
 
opendebate said:
Exactly! That's how I feel about it. It's weird to me how so many people scream about their choices not being forced on them but for some reason these guys have surrendered that same right because they are down and out. Seems hypocritical
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Yup. Like when I give some 'will work for food'-sign-guy a dollar... sure he may drink it or spend it on meth instead of food, but that is HIS problem, not mine.
 
opendebate said:
Exactly! That's how I feel about it. It's weird to me how so many people scream about their choices not being forced on them but for some reason these guys have surrendered that same right because they are down and out. Seems hypocritical
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Well, not really hypocritical in my view. There the whole "live in my house, live by my rules. When you get your own place that's up to you" thing. They're buying food with OPM (other people's money). There are rules they agreed to when they accepted the card.
 
clownboy said:
Well, not really hypocritical in my view. There the whole "live in my house, live by my rules. When you get your own place that's up to you" thing. They're buying food with OPM (other people's money). There are rules they agreed to when they accepted the card.
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Well I have a real shocker for you CB. I disagree with you. (I could almost hear the gasp from here)
 
opendebate said:
Well I have a real shocker for you CB. I disagree with you. (I could almost hear the gasp from here)
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Even though the rules for usage and the consequences for misuse were agreed to in order to get the card in the first place?
 
digsbe said:
The difference between an alcoholic though is in this case, the store is illegal using taxpayer money to purchase alcohol and cigs with EBT cards. That's harming the community and abusing money that does cost the taxpayer and society. Odds are if they do it for one person they are doing it for everyone that asks.
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:shrug: If they want beer and smokes that bad, they will get them. They'll trade groceries they bought for them with other individuals.

If they're criminally inclined, they'll steal them, or steal stuff to sell to buy beer and smokes.

You can't stop vice. Might as well just shrug and roll with it. Personally I'd be less bothered by them using some of their snap allowance for beer/smokes than stealing for it.
 
clownboy said:
Even though the rules for usage and the consequences for misuse were agreed to in order to get the card in the first place?
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What's the objective here. To provide assistance for essentials until that person can get themselves back into a position where they can provide those things for themselves. If they decide that their essentials are beer and cigarettes (now keep in mind we're not talking about meth here, it's beer and cigs) then fine. You are free to make your own stupid choices. In the long run what they decide are essentials has not impact on the outcome.
 
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