Rape and Clothing

ChrisL said:

I'm sure plenty of people would consider you a slut without even knowing what you look like, because THAT doesn't matter. There are fat sluts and ugly sluts, so WHAT does a "slut" look like?

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There are pictures in this thread that will help you answer that question.

Gipper said:

There are pictures in this thread that will help you answer that question.

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A slut can look ugly like you too though.

ChrisL said:

This is all such bull crap! The only way a person's clothing would be considered "consenting" to sex is if she wasn't wearing any!

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Who in the heck are you talking to? No one said anything about clothing indicating "consent."

Clothing doesn't speak, and if any man is making assumptions about a woman based upon how she is dressed, then he is moron and mentally disturbed too.

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Please. Everyone does this, not just men looking at women.

Are you honestly going to tell me that you do not make certain assumptions about a man who is dressed like a biker or gangster rapper that you wouldn't make about a man wearing an expensive business suit?

Gathomas88 said:

Who in the heck are you talking to? No one said anything about clothing indicating "consent."

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What in the heck are YOU talking about? You have been doing nothing but indicating that throughout the entire thread. You said that the rapist would feel that, because of how a woman is dressed, that means she is consenting to sex. THAT is what YOU said.

Please. Everyone does this, not just men looking at women.

Are you honestly going to tell me that you do not make certain assumptions about a man who is dressed like a biker or gangster rapper that you wouldn't make about a man wearing an expensive business suit?

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No. I know plenty of people who wear biker shirts. It doesn't mean they're bikers though. Just because someone wears a concert T-shirt doesn't mean they're a member of the band! If I'm at a club and I see women dressed provocatively, I don't give it a second thought! :roll: Unless they were half nude or something and that is RARE, thinking "oh she must be slutty" doesn't even cross my mind!

Gipper said:

Men who rape, I would imagine, find sluts more desirable. They justify in their minds that "she's asking for it".

I'm betting that the difference between the average man and a rapist is impulse control.

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Another winning statement. I'm sure there's one or two here that were ready to do the dirty but refrained from forcing themselves on her when she refused.A normal guy won't be able to continue if he has to pin her down! It should be akin to a parent or a child walking into a room! These same guys who couldn't stop b/c they were so horny would stop in a heartbeat if an authoritative figure walked in or a child!

ChrisL said:

What in the heck are YOU talking about? You have been doing nothing but indicating that throughout the entire thread. You said that the rapist would feel that, because of how a woman is dressed, that means she is consenting to sex. THAT is what YOU said.

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And he would be wrong, which is why we send such people to jail.

No where have I implied that clothing is an actual form of consent.

No. I know plenty of people who wear biker shirts. It doesn't mean they're bikers though. Just because someone wears a concert T-shirt doesn't mean they're a member of the band!

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We're not talking about people you know. :shrug:

If I'm at a club and I see women dressed provocatively, I don't give it a second thought! :roll: Unless they were half nude or something and that is RARE, thinking "oh she must be slutty" doesn't even cross my mind!

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Why would it? You're not a guy, so you're not deliberately looking for those kinds of women.

On the other hand, however; if you see a man come in wearing a greasy stained T-shirt and ripped blue jeans with four days worth of stubble on his face, are you not going make certain assumptions about him based off of his style of dress?

What about a man wearing an expensive suit instead?

Be honest here, Chris.

herenow1 said:

Another winning statement. I'm sure there's one or two here that were ready to do the dirty but refrained from forcing themselves on her when she refused.A normal guy won't be able to continue if he has to pin her down! It should be akin to a parent or a child walking into a room! These same guys who couldn't stop b/c they were so horny would stop in a heartbeat if an authoritative figure walked in or a child!

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I've never understood that myself. Unless he's simply too drunk to notice her distress, you would think that struggling would be a major turn off.

Gathomas88 said:

And he would be wrong, which is why we send such people to jail.

No where have I implied that clothing is an actual form of consent.



We're not talking about people you know. :shrug:



Why would it? You're not a guy, so you're not deliberately looking for those kinds of women.

On the other hand, however; if you see a man come in wearing a greasy stained T-shirt and ripped blue jeans with four days worth of stubble on his face, are you not going make certain assumptions about him based off of his style of dress?

What about a man wearing an expensive suit instead?

Be honest here, Chris.



I've never understood that myself. Unless he's simply too drunk to notice her distress, you would think that struggling would be a major turn off.

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I have to get back to work, I'll have to answer this later.

grip said:

Nah, you're not looking at this from a guy point of view, which is difficult, unless you're a guy. A girl who's got everything pushed up and out, looking like sex on a stick is definitely going to be more irresistible than Miss Librarian date. If a sexpot is sticking her tongue in your ear, saying nasty things with a little nipple popping out, then suddenly says "NO!", then the clothes played a part in how hard the date rape was to resist.

Again it's not common, but squeezing, teasing with no intention of pleasing and barely wearing a squirrel cover is a recipe for disaster. Don't underestimate, even a normal guys control, when the hormones of youth kick in.

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No, you're looking at this from one guy's point of view, yours. Many guys go after the librarian type girls, even if for the whole fantasy of her being a livewire in bed. Even guys are not that simple, not all of them, not even most of them. Some wouldn't be caught dead with a trashy girl or some girl they viewed as a slut, but the nice, quieter, less outgoing girl, now she's worth taking home.

roguenuke said:

No, you're looking at this from one guy's point of view, yours. Many guys go after the librarian type girls, even if for the whole fantasy of her being a livewire in bed. Even guys are not that simple, not all of them, not even most of them. Some wouldn't be caught dead with a trashy girl or some girl they viewed as a slut, but the nice, quieter, less outgoing girl, now she's worth taking home.

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Yes, and that type of guy isn't going to be the sort that is prone to either "picking up" strange women, or the kinds of misunderstandings which can often escalate into date rape.

grip said:

There are also many instances of molestation of younger teens. A friend of mine and his sister were partially molested by a family friend, who was a teenager himself. It wasn't full on rape or penetration and sometimes, it's even from a family member. These are usually impulsive acts, and not premeditated or meant to cause harm. This and women having men go too far in office, clubs, bars and dates are often mistaken as serious abuse, when they're actually minor sexual assaults.

In most of those cases, how someone dresses and they're appearance is more a factor than in violent forms of sexual assault.

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Sort of. Legally any acts that involve touching that is unwarranted are punishable, some people are just touchy types that express themselves with hugs, or other touches that could be seen as a sexual advance(I usually give close friends a big bear hug, and kiss very close female friends on the cheek or hand). In a case where there could be misinterpretation the two parties should just sit and talk it out. In the case of a "no doubter" I have no sympathy.

ChrisL said:

This is all such bull crap! The only way a person's clothing would be considered "consenting" to sex is if she wasn't wearing any!

Clothing doesn't speak, and if any man is making assumptions about a woman based upon how she is dressed, then he is moron and mentally disturbed too.

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Is that from your own POV or your considerable knowledge as a male? For the record, I never said clothing was permitting sex, it simply becomes a factor in a man's inability to control his passion. That's not nice, fair or even legal but it is a reality, not an opinion.

Fathers don't want their teenage girls to dress less scantily, because they're afraid of rape (maybe?). They know how aggressive, manipulating and coercive the young males will become, because they was one.

Gathomas88 said:

Exactly. It's not a factor in most rapes, but it can be, and sometimes is, a contributing factor in some rapes. The kinds of rapes where this is most common are date rapes; though, even then, it is probably not the major factor involved so much as generally unsafe behavior.

Some posters in this thread are trying to deny even that. I'm sorry, but I'm simply not buying that argument.

Look at it this way. I'm a straight man. Going into a gay club by myself is pretty much always risky.

However, if I go in wearing a skin tight pair of neon pink bicycle shorts and tight T-shirt tied off above my waist, I'm only making it worse, as I am now deliberately attracting the attention of everyone in the room in an overtly sexual manner. If you're not actually planning on having sex with anyone, it is simply a bad idea to go out of one's way to give off the impression that you might be.

This won't get me assaulted in and of itself, in all likelihood, but it could contribute to a misunderstanding that might increase the likelihood on an assault occurring.

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The only thing I would have to say though is a lady may well be looking to hook up, just not with the person who would rape her. IOW, it's still the fault of the aggressor, if a woman is wearing provocative clothing she may be looking to land a guy, she may have just lost a bunch of weight and finally wants to show more skin, it could be a lot of reasons.

Gipper said:

You seriously believe that?

If it walks like a slut, and looks like a slut...

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I knew/know a woman who was (might still be) all about one night stands. She brought guys home from the bar all the time and sometimes they got kicked out of bed right after. They didn't stand a chance of making a longterm relationship with her. And she was known for wearing sleepwear or jeans and t-shirts to the bar. She was awesome. I'd say plenty of people would classify her as a "slut", but you couldn't look at her clothing to make that determination. It was all about her attitude and actions, not her clothes. Just like I was informed that at least some guys thought of me as a "tease", even when I don't wear anything but jeans to a bar (I go to country bars). The rep was gained because of my actions, my refusal to go home with most guys eventhough I wanted to dance with them. (I love to dance.) Actions speak much louder than clothing.

Gathomas88 said:

Yes, and that type of guy isn't going to be the sort that is prone to either "picking up" strange women, or the kinds of misunderstandings which can often escalate into date rape.

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Why would you say that? Any type of guy can pick up a woman. Any type of guy can be a rapist, especially when it comes to initial impressions as being all you have to go on.

What type of guy do you think picks up girls and is willing to rape them if they don't agree to sex exactly? And what exactly is the type of guy who would pick up the librarian type?

LaMidRighter said:

The only thing I would have to say though is a lady may well be looking to hook up, just not with the person who would rape her. IOW, it's still the fault of the aggressor, if a woman is wearing provocative clothing she may be looking to land a guy, she may have just lost a bunch of weight and finally wants to show more skin, it could be a lot of reasons.

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Of course. The rapist is always ultimately to blame.

However, it cannot really be denied that certain styles of dress do tend to send certain messages whether they are intended or not. That can result in misunderstandings which are some times dangerous.

roguenuke said:

I knew/know a woman who was (might still be) all about one night stands. She brought guys home from the bar all the time and sometimes they got kicked out of bed right after. They didn't stand a chance of making a longterm relationship with her. And she was known for wearing sleepwear or jeans and t-shirts to the bar. She was awesome. I'd say plenty of people would classify her as a "slut", but you couldn't look at her clothing to make that determination. It was all about her attitude and actions, not her clothes. Just like I was informed that at least some guys thought of me as a "tease", even when I don't wear anything but jeans to a bar (I go to country bars). The rep was gained because of my actions, my refusal to go home with most guys eventhough I wanted to dance with them. (I love to dance.) Actions speak much louder than clothing.

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Last I check, we don't wear signs around out neck that accurately portray character traits. You have to judge by obvious factors. Maybe they're accurate; maybe they're not. However, we all do it.

Dance? That's it? Doesn't seem like a fair trade IMO. It's like women who accept the free drink and refuse payback in the back seat after last call.

Gathomas88 said:

Who in the heck are you talking to? No one said anything about clothing indicating "consent."

Please. Everyone does this, not just men looking at women.

Are you honestly going to tell me that you do not make certain assumptions about a man who is dressed like a biker or gangster rapper that you wouldn't make about a man wearing an expensive business suit?

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There is a difference between a person using a person's clothing to make assumptions on what type of person that is and using clothing to target a person to take home and rape or even to just attempt to have sex with.

grip said:

Nah, you're not looking at this from a guy point of view, which is difficult, unless you're a guy. A girl who's got everything pushed up and out, looking like sex on a stick is definitely going to be more irresistible than Miss Librarian date. If a sexpot is sticking her tongue in your ear, saying nasty things with a little nipple popping out, then suddenly says "NO!", then the clothes played a part in how hard the date rape was to resist.

Again it's not common, but squeezing, teasing with no intention of pleasing and barely wearing a squirrel cover is a recipe for disaster. Don't underestimate, even a normal guys control, when the hormones of youth kick in.

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I dunno man, I actually appreciate the "dressed down" look. It's harder to pull off more conservative dress and still be smokin' hot and I've seen a few ladies who could pull it off, they were so sexy that they could have won a guy's attraction in a burka.

To me, anyone can show skin and dress provocatively but it's kind of like anything else, the better the quality the less you have to advertise. One girl I fell for hard years ago(she's married now so moving along) could pull off an off the rack Walmart dress when other women were blowing their paychecks on expensive stuff to go out, she was THE center of the room in moderate clothes and just an amazing person. BTW, she chose to dress down, her entire family is connected politically and economically in this state(and she chooses not to brag).

roguenuke said:

Why would you say that? Any type of guy can pick up a woman.

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Absolutely untrue. Unless they are deliberately aiming for the very lowest targets on the menu, most guys struggle in this regard, and many do not care to try at all.

What type of guy do you think picks up girls and is willing to rape them if they don't agree to sex exactly?

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If existing cases are any indication, generally the more aggressive "testosterone posioned" type.

And what exactly is the type of guy who would pic up the librarian type?

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I don't have the slightest idea. Certainly none I've ever met.

Where are you hanging out that "librarian types" are so common anyway?

Gathomas88 said:

Of course. The rapist is always ultimately to blame.

However, it cannot really be denied that certain styles of dress do tend to send certain messages whether they are intended or not. That can result in misunderstandings which are some times dangerous.

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Even stating that aggression of that type could come from a misunderstanding, any male with that little self control is dangerous beyond what the lady was wearing.

Gipper said:

Last I check, we don't wear signs around out neck that accurately portray character traits. You have to judge by obvious factors. Maybe they're accurate; maybe they're not. However, we all do it.

Dance? That's it? Doesn't seem like a fair trade IMO. It's like women who accept the free drink and refuse payback in the back seat after last call.

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Exactly. No one wears any type of sign, not even in their clothing.

And since everyone has different types, then it requires actually talking to a woman to find out if there is any chance of her going home (or wherever) with her to begin with. I've been hit on in my coveralls on the ship for Christ's sake. (Of course my husband claims that they look good on me. But then again my husband jumped me once when I came back to my hotel room in blue cammies. Don't think that would be true for every woman or every guy.)

It is all about preferences, and not all guys share the same preferences, nor are all guys going to have enough going for them to get that ok to get near the woman. In order for there to be some sort of "misunderstanding" of intentions when we are talking a bar type pickup, the girl is going to have to at the least be talking with the guy or something. It isn't likely that there is a misunderstanding if there isn't any communications between the two to begin with. Heck not all guys are going to even be attracted to the scantily clad woman for sex. Some may figure she is too loose. Others may just not want to take any risks (whether that assumption that she would be a risk is warranted or not). Some simply would rather have the more subtle woman.

roguenuke said:

Exactly. No one wears any type of sign, not even in their clothing.

And since everyone has different types, then it requires actually talking to a woman to find out if there is any chance of her going home (or wherever) with her to begin with. I've been hit on in my coveralls on the ship for Christ's sake. (Of course my husband claims that they look good on me. But then again my husband jumped me once when I came back to my hotel room in blue cammies. Don't think that would be true for every woman or every guy.)

It is all about preferences, and not all guys share the same preferences, nor are all guys going to have enough going for them to get that ok to get near the woman. In order for there to be some sort of "misunderstanding" of intentions when we are talking a bar type pickup, the girl is going to have to at the least be talking with the guy or something. It isn't likely that there is a misunderstanding if there isn't any communications between the two to begin with. Heck not all guys are going to even be attracted to the scantily clad woman for sex. Some may figure she is too loose. Others may just not want to take any risks (whether that assumption that she would be a risk is warranted or not). Some simply would rather have the more subtle woman.

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We're talking potential rapists though. Of course they love sluts. Hell, most of them probably think that all women are sluts anyway. They just go after the weakest member of the pack.

For them, slutty clothing is advertising.

Chocolate said:

You can be erm... very sexual or a "Slut" but I don't see how that has anything to do with rape? are slutty woman more desireable? I always assumed a rapist would rape more so due to opertunity...then looks

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I agree it's opportunity. Jameis Winston is a well-known rapist, however he just won a Heisman trophy because he had the opportunity to rape and get away with it.

Gathomas88 said:

Absolutely untrue. Unless they are deliberately aiming for the very lowest targets on the menu, most guys struggle in this regard, and many do not care to try at all.

If existing cases are any indication, generally the more aggressive "testosterone posioned" type.

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Such a huge stereotype it isn't even funny. A guy doesn't have to be aggressive or testosterone poisoned to rape a woman. The geeky guy can be just as likely to rape a woman.

Heck, I knew many guys on the ship who held the belief that the more women they went after, the more chances they have. And one guy the others would claim that he just went up to a woman and told her he could only get off through masturbating so he could go all night for her (apparently this worked). One of those "go for all" actually propositioned me on the way home from a division picnic one day. He accepted the rejection with a shrug and no problem.

I think way too many guys in this conversation are going off of either their personal attractions and attitude or the stereotypes of men that are out there. I am going off of my experience with men. I may not attract a ton of guys, but I attract my share (or at least I did when I was single). And I'm also pretty observant. Women who dress in less clothing are not really attracting a ton guys more than me or than I did. (Now, my sister can attract quite a few guys herself, but it doesn't really matter what she wears, she has a good sized butt and bust on a small body.)

Gathomas88 said:

I don't have the slightest idea. Certainly none I've ever met.

Where are you hanging out that "librarian types" are so common anyway?

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I'm not exactly outgoing in what I wear. And I've known plenty of guys who thought of me as the librarian type. Heck some of my guy friends on the ship swore up and down that my sweet and innocent attitude was all an act and that I was really a dominatrix type in bed. I rarely wear makeup or contacts (prefer my glasses to sore/sticky eyes). Even at the bars I frequent, I don't exactly dress up, yet I can attract my share of attention (well, harder now because of a single piece of jewelry I always wear, but eh not worth hiding the fact).

But really it would depend on where you are to begin with. Where do you normally go to pick up women to sleep with? Where do most guys go? Now which of those guys exactly are most likely to rape a woman? Can you pick them out in the crowds? Because I'm willing to bet you can't pick out the potential rapists based solely on clothing. And even their actions aren't likely to give them away completely either, maybe if you knew them pretty well, went out with them.

Plus, another problem with the assumptions being made here is that "misunderstanding" type incidents only happen or happen most because a guy is only looking for a woman to take home (wherever) for sex. It is also possible for these incidents to happen when a guy is looking for a more serious relationship, but still figures he might get lucky with her (maybe they've talked a few times at the bar or danced) but misreads the cues.

Gipper said:

We're talking potential rapists though. Of course they love sluts. Hell, most of them probably think that all women are sluts anyway. They just go after the weakest member of the pack.

For them, slutty clothing is advertising.

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Assumptions much? You cannot possibly say that most potential rapists prefer sluts. You simply can't know this.

And if they think all women are sluts anyway, then there is no reason that they would differentiate between women based on what they were wearing.

Maybe stupid men believe that women dressed a certain way are easiest, but even that I doubt. Plus you would still need to gain the woman's attention for enough time to get her to agree to go somewhere "less crowded" with you in order to reach a point to get to a "misunderstanding". Otherwise, that isn't a misunderstanding but a blatant rape situation and it would go back to the preferences of the individual rapist.