Rape and Clothing

Gathomas88 said:

I have made it quite clear that I am not talking about all rapes, because clothing does not play a role in all rapes. It doesn't even play a role in most rapes. I am talking about the type of rapes (i.e. date rape, predominantly) where clothing actually can be said to have played a role in some cases.

Why is this so hard to grasp?

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Because it doesn't matter what the woman is wearing in that situation either. If the guy is a jerk enough to expect something and gets angry when he doesn't get it, it doesn't really matter what the woman is wearing at the time. Men don't NEED a woman to dress provocatively to want to have sex with her either. In fact, some men (like yourself) prefer women who dress more conservatively.

To the contrary, I love it when women dress provocatively. :lol:

That does not, however; mean that it is a good idea.

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You do not. You think that they're sluts and nothing more.

Who's angry? :shrug:

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The guy on the date in your scenario obviously. :lol:

Name a single instance.

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Please Gathomas, there have been plenty of instances in which you speak derogatory about the way some women dress. Like on the clubbing thread a few months back for instance?

Muhammed said:

When I was in high school if a girl who was passed out and someone tried to take advantage of the situation to rape her, they probably would have got beat to death. At the very least they would have got their ass kicked and been a social outcast forever after. They would have been beat down by several of us football players. Maybe even killed.

I can't even fathom that someone would even try to pull some **** like that.

It's rare that anyone would be that stupid.

When I was a teen me and my brothers had huge parties with a lot of teen girls.

When I was that age. My parents were divorced and they both worked 3rd shift, me and my brothers would have a huge party with a lot of drinking, drugs and loud music every Friday and Saturday night when I was in high school. We were the football stars.

But by morning the house would be spic and span. A bunch of the more sober girls would get together and clean the entire house. Like 15 minutes before parents came home. There would be people passed out on the floor, and some cars parked in the front yard and on the street because some kids would get too drunk to drive home. But the inside of the house was super clean.

It always amazed my how a small group of teenaged girls can completely clean an entire house. Less than 15 minutes.

Lori was the leader of the bunch. She would bark out orders to the others. "jump!" "how high?"

Lori, Jodie, Shannon, Sil, Kristin and Tammy.

If you got in their way they would run you over.

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I think it's really sad that more people don't do anything when a girl is being taken advantage like that. Those who sit and watch and don't do anything to try and stop it or AT LEAST call the police should be charged as accessories in some instances IMO.

Muhammed said:

When I was in high school if a girl who was passed out and someone tried to take advantage of the situation to rape her, they probably would have got beat to death. At the very least they would have got their ass kicked and been a social outcast forever after. They would have been beat down by several of us football players. Maybe even killed.

I can't even fathom that someone would even try to pull some **** like that.

It's rare that anyone would be that stupid.

When I was a teen me and my brothers had huge parties with a lot of teen girls.

When I was that age. My parents were divorced and they both worked 3rd shift, me and my brothers would have a huge party with a lot of drinking, drugs and loud music every Friday and Saturday night when I was in high school. We were the football stars.

But by morning the house would be spic and span. A bunch of the more sober girls would get together and clean the entire house. Like 15 minutes before parents came home. There would be people passed out on the floor, and some cars parked in the front yard and on the street because some kids would get too drunk to drive home. But the inside of the house was super clean.

It always amazed my how a small group of teenaged girls can completely clean an entire house. Less than 15 minutes.

Lori was the leader of the bunch. She would bark out orders to the others. "jump!" "how high?"

Lori, Jodie, Shannon, Sil, Kristin and Tammy.

If you got in their way they would run you over.

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I really can't imagine why anyone would actively cheer them on in doing it. What are we? A bunch of damn barbarians?

NoC_T said:

What's passive rape? Is that like, as opposed to a particularly brutal rape? If there's some scale of severity, is there some point at which there is no rape, even in the event of non-consensual sexual contact? I believe there's some implied contradiction there. Likewise, even if it ties in with your next point about drug-facilitated sexual assault. In the latter case, how do you reconcile your insistence of rape as a power play with the lack of any degradation requiring conscious awareness? Further, offender testimony doesn't equate with psychiatry, which in any case constitutes no empirical baseline. Nor does it allow for rejection of opportunism. Since you mention frequency in criminological terms, it amounts to no more than statistical probability; this being something that falls some way short of psychiatric analysis, which in itself is moot.

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Passive rape, like drugging, taking advantage of someone when they are passed out without consent, it doesn't involve force. The key element is the taking of the other person's choice in whether or not to have intercourse, it is power either way. If a person goes the passive route they are still exhibiting a control over the other person, the power to say no is taken away from them.

This is all still entirely speculative. You've no way of predicting how trauma might be perceived and processed from one individual to another. What you or I might dismiss as being mildly disturbing could drive another to suicide.

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I've known a few women who were raped, the majority of those I knew were never the same including trust issues, sometimes anger, almost always nightmares, and damage to their self confidence, other accounts from victims I did not know in just about everything I've ever read speak to similar trauma.

As for the warlord example, you make admission of situational and cultural biases. These being at odds with any universal application that the 'power' brigade seem intent upon claiming. After all the thread's deflective free-association, we're still left with the sexual component as being the one and only necessity for qualification. No agenda necessary.

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It is done to demoralize the other faction, the men and the women of opposition forces/tribes/ethnic groups. Rape done in a militarized sense is indeed a power play.

LaMidRighter said:

Passive rape, like drugging, taking advantage of someone when they are passed out without consent, it doesn't involve force. The key element is the taking of the other person's choice in whether or not to have intercourse, it is power either way. If a person goes the passive route they are still exhibiting a control over the other person, the power to say no is taken away from them.


I've known a few women who were raped, the majority of those I knew were never the same including trust issues, sometimes anger, almost always nightmares, and damage to their self confidence, other accounts from victims I did not know in just about everything I've ever read speak to similar trauma.

It is done to demoralize the other faction, the men and the women of opposition forces/tribes/ethnic groups. Rape done in a militarized sense is indeed a power play.

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I've heard about the mass rapes in Rwanda. I've read some really horrific stories about them, really terrible and brutal things that you don't even want to THINK about. No denying that there is absolutely NOTHING sexual about that. It is more like a physical and psychological torture.

ChrisL said:

I've heard about the mass rapes in Rwanda. I've read some really horrific stories about them, really terrible and brutal things that you don't even want to THINK about. No denying that there is absolutely NOTHING sexual about that. It is more like a physical and psychological torture.

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I read up a bit on it and from what I understand the philosophy behind those particular rapes involves the culture itself. The Tutsi tribe, from what I've come to understand have a very structured culture and manhood/self worth of males is based upon being able to provide for and protect their families, I also understand that fidelity is very important to them. The rapes are a multi-faceted attack on the psyches of all involved, used to brutalize the women but as important it is meant to demoralize the male populace, it's saying "see, your women are no longer yours, you couldn't protect them, you are inferior".

*The difference between say, a southern man and a Tutsi man in the "protector/provider" camp is that if a man were to harm a southerner's family that man will seek out justice but blame the attacker exclusively, a Tutsi man would be very likely to wither away because of the importance of their role(this is what the reading has led me to believe anyway, I'm not an expert on the Rwanda subject but rather an observer).*

ChrisL said:

Because it doesn't matter what the woman is wearing in that situation either. If the guy is a jerk enough to expect something and gets angry when he doesn't get it, it doesn't really matter what the woman is wearing at the time. Men don't NEED a woman to dress provocatively to want to have sex with her either.

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It does, in a way, however; because men are going to make assumptions about a woman's intentions and general level of "easiness" based upon her style of dress. A guy who is deliberately looking for sex probably won't approach a woman who seems unlikely to give it out in the first place.

He also won't be as liable to make rationalizations to himself along the lines of "if she didn't want it, she wouldn't have worn that top," which might lead him to get angry when and if he is rejected.

In fact, some men (like yourself) prefer women who dress more conservatively.

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True, but we're less likely to expect sex, or actively seek it out, than other types of men.

You do not. You think that they're sluts and nothing more.

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I think they have rather poor judgment, a lot of the time.

However, that is ultimately their choice.

The guy on the date in your scenario obviously. :lol:

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Ah. :lol:

Please Gathomas, there have been plenty of instances in which you speak derogatory about the way some women dress. Like on the clubbing thread a few months back for instance?

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And what did I say about them?

LaMidRighter said:

I read up a bit on it and from what I understand the philosophy behind those particular rapes involves the culture itself. The Tutsi tribe, from what I've come to understand have a very structured culture and manhood/self worth of males is based upon being able to provide for and protect their families, I also understand that fidelity is very important to them. The rapes are a multi-faceted attack on the psyches of all involved, used to brutalize the women but as important it is meant to demoralize the male populace, it's saying "see, your women are no longer yours, you couldn't protect them, you are inferior".

*The difference between say, a southern man and a Tutsi man in the "protector/provider" camp is that if a man were to harm a southerner's family that man will seek out justice but blame the attacker exclusively, a Tutsi man would be very likely to wither away because of the importance of their role(this is what the reading has led me to believe anyway, I'm not an expert on the Rwanda subject but rather an observer).*

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Some of the things I've read are just horrible. Taking a woman's baby from her and throwing it in the fire and then raping her with sticks and other sharp objects. Some of them bleed to death, and some are left mutilated and disfigured and can never have children again. Horrible, horrible things go on, and nobody helps them.

ChrisL said:

I've heard about the mass rapes in Rwanda. I've read some really horrific stories about them, really terrible and brutal things that you don't even want to THINK about. No denying that there is absolutely NOTHING sexual about that. It is more like a physical and psychological torture.

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LaMidRighter said:

I read up a bit on it and from what I understand the philosophy behind those particular rapes involves the culture itself. The Tutsi tribe, from what I've come to understand have a very structured culture and manhood/self worth of males is based upon being able to provide for and protect their families, I also understand that fidelity is very important to them. The rapes are a multi-faceted attack on the psyches of all involved, used to brutalize the women but as important it is meant to demoralize the male populace, it's saying "see, your women are no longer yours, you couldn't protect them, you are inferior".

*The difference between say, a southern man and a Tutsi man in the "protector/provider" camp is that if a man were to harm a southerner's family that man will seek out justice but blame the attacker exclusively, a Tutsi man would be very likely to wither away because of the importance of their role(this is what the reading has led me to believe anyway, I'm not an expert on the Rwanda subject but rather an observer).*

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It is a terror tactic, essentially. That kind of thing wasn't terribly uncommon even in Western warfare in the pre-modern era. The 30 Years War, for instance, tended to involve rather horrific atrocities along those lines as well whenever an opposing army would move into a civilian area loyal to the other side.

Gathomas88 said:

It does, in a way, however; because men are going to make assumptions about a woman's intentions and general level of "easiness" based upon her style of dress. A guy who is deliberately looking for sex probably won't approach a woman who seems unlikely to give it out in the first place.

He also won't be as liable to make rationalizations to himself along the lines of "if she didn't want it, she wouldn't have worn that top," which might lead him to get angry when and if he is rejected.

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This is wrong because if that were the case then it would be a FACT that most date rape victims were dressed provocatively, and THAT is not the case. Besides, people have been telling over and over again that different people find different things attractive, and when we are talking about a person who is mentally diseased, then who knows.

True, but we're less likely to expect sex, or actively seek it out, than other types of men.

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That is not true either. WHERE do you get these non-truths from anyway? I know for a FACT that some conservative men are quite the pervs. :lol: Don't lie to me, I'm not your mother.

I think they have rather poor judgment, a lot of the time.

However, that is ultimately their choice.

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Why do you think it's a poor choice? Some women WANT this attention. They don't want to be the frumpy mousy nerd girl sitting in the corner that nobody pays attention to apparently.

Ah. :lol:

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Who did you think I was talking about? You? Are you angry about something Gathomas?

And what did I say about them?

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All kinds of things, such as they are there to look for sex, that they're promiscuous and other such things. Sorry, but just because a person shows some cleavage or leg that does not mean they are promiscuous.

Gathomas88 said:

It does, in a way, however; because men are going to make assumptions about a woman's intentions and general level of "easiness" based upon her style of dress. A guy who is deliberately looking for sex probably won't approach a woman who seems unlikely to give it out in the first place.

He also won't be as liable to make rationalizations to himself along the lines of "if she didn't want it, she wouldn't have worn that top," which might lead him to get angry when and if he is rejected.



True, but we're less likely to expect sex, or actively seek it out, than other types of men.



I think they have rather poor judgment, a lot of the time.

However, that is ultimately their choice.



Ah. :lol:



And what did I say about them?

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Good grief! LOL
please stop talking like you speak for "MEN" because you are factually wrong

real MEN dont act anything like you are describing, it seems you are projecting your own issues on others but they are only yours

Gathomas88 said:

It is a terror tactic, essentially. That kind of thing wasn't terribly uncommon even in Western warfare in the pre-modern era. The 30 Years War, for instance, tended to involve rather horrific atrocities along those lines as well whenever an opposing army would move into a civilian area loyal to the other side.

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Absolutely, along with razing cities, killing livestock, destroying crops and infrastructure. The whole idea behind that type of tactic is to destroy the opposition rather than just force a surrender.

ChrisL said:

This is wrong because if that were the case then it would be a FACT that most date rape victims were dressed provocatively, and THAT is not the case.

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According to what?

Besides, people have been telling over and over again that different people find different things attractive,

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Which is nonsense. There in not that much deviation in what guys tend to find attractive.

99.9% of the time, a reasonably attractive woman wearing skimpy clothing is going to sexually excite a man.

and when we are talking about a person who is mentally diseased, then who knows.

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Where non-serial offenders are concerned, you still have yet to demonstrate that they even are "mentally diseased."

That is not true either. WHERE do you get these non-truths from anyway? I know for a FACT that some conservative men are quite the pervs. :lol: Don't lie to me, I'm not your mother.

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If you're trying to get laid and going after the conservatively dressed women, you're doing it wrong. :lol:

Why do you think it's a poor choice? Some women WANT this attention. They don't want to be the frumpy mousy nerd girl sitting in the corner that nobody pays attention to apparently.

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If a woman's not planning on actually sleeping with anyone, it's a terrible idea simply because she's openly inviting misinterpretation of her intentions.

If she is, it's still kind of a bad idea, simply because promiscuity is an inherently risky activity.

Who did you think I was talking about? You? Are you angry about something Gathomas?

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So far, I've been accused of hating women, wanting them to wear burkas, and being a closet rapist.

You never can tell sometimes. :lol:

All kinds of things, such as they are there to look for sex, that they're promiscuous and other such things. Sorry, but just because a person shows some cleavage or leg that does not mean they are promiscuous.

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Some of them are. :shrug:

I fail to see how this implies that I want women to all dress in Burkas, like you were claiming.

ChrisL said:

Some of the things I've read are just horrible. Taking a woman's baby from her and throwing it in the fire and then raping her with sticks and other sharp objects. Some of them bleed to death, and some are left mutilated and disfigured and can never have children again. Horrible, horrible things go on, and nobody helps them.

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I wish we could help, but we already create so many problems since we left the non-intervention stance behind. Personally I realize that we have to slowly retract our military presence around the globe, and I wish we could justify ending the multiple global atrocities but if we started that on a global scale it would wear us very thin both from a manpower and a monetary perspective. The U.N. is supposed to handle that kind of thing, but they are useless, in fact some of my local friends were in that continent assisting with U.N. peacekeeping missions and they said that some of the peacekeepers were as bad or worse than the people we were supposed to be fighting, and the rules of engagement were just good to get our guys killed.

AgentJ said:

Good grief! LOL
please stop talking like you speak for "MEN" because you are factually wrong

real MEN dont act anything like you are describing, it seems you are projecting your own issues on others but they are only yours

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Who asked you? We are talking about men's opinions, after all.

Do you even qualify? :lol:

Gathomas88 said:

Who asked you? We are talking about men's opinions after all.

Do you even qualify? :lol:

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yep thats what i thought since you cant defend your fallacy stance you resort to failed insults. Nothing new here.
I know that myself and all the men i know wouldnt be affected in anyway what so ever if they were looking at a girl in a parka or butt naked and passed out when it comes to the issue of rape and unwanted touching. lol

SO again speak for yourself not men, because the majority do not share your uncontrollable feelings

let me know when you can back up your factually wrong stance.

Gathomas88 said:

According to what?

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One of the links I posted touched on this issue.

Which is nonsense. There in not that much deviation in what guys tend to find attractive.

99.9% of the time, a reasonably attractive woman wearing skimpy clothing is going to sexually excite a man.

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It doesn't matter. They can find a woman sexually attractive in jeans too. Unless you are suggesting that we all walk around wearing burqas, the suggestions about dressing "more conservatively" are stupid.

Where non-serial offenders are concerned, you still have yet to demonstrate that they even are "mentally diseased."

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Of course they are. What kind of man would get off on a girl begging him to NOT have sex with her and crying and fighting (and I don't mean role-playing LOL)? A sick man, that's what kind of man. What kind of man wants to have sex with an unresponsive corpse (which is basically what having sex with a passed out drunk person must be like)? A sick and disturbed man.

If you're trying to get laid and going after the conservatively dressed women, you're doing it wrong. :lol:

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That's not true at all. There are plenty of women who dress conservatively and sleep around. Obviously you don't know many women. Most girls who dress provocatively are looking for ATTENTION, not sex.

If a woman's not planning on actually sleeping with anyone, it's a terrible idea simply because she's openly inviting misinterpretation of her intentions.

If she is, it's still kind of a bad idea, simply because promiscuity is an inherently risky activity.

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Obviously, women disagree with you.

Who did you think I was talking about? You? Are you angry about something Gathomas?

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You didn't answer this one.

Some of them are. :shrug:

I fail to see how this implies that I want women to all dress in Burkas, like you were claiming.

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Some PEOPLE are, men and women, and the way they dress has nothing to do with that.

About burqas, you said (in a semi-kidding manner) once that "it wouldn't be such a bad idea." But I think you were semi-serious too.

LaMidRighter said:

I wish we could help, but we already create so many problems since we left the non-intervention stance behind. Personally I realize that we have to slowly retract our military presence around the globe, and I wish we could justify ending the multiple global atrocities but if we started that on a global scale it would wear us very thin both from a manpower and a monetary perspective. The U.N. is supposed to handle that kind of thing, but they are useless, in fact some of my local friends were in that continent assisting with U.N. peacekeeping missions and they said that some of the peacekeepers were as bad or worse than the people we were supposed to be fighting, and the rules of engagement were just good to get our guys killed.

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Did you ever see the movie Tears of the Sun? I think Bruce Willis was in it. It was an excellent movie but it really pissed me off at the same time with all the bureaucratic red tape and stuff.

I'm pretty sure it was based on a true story about a special ops team that went over to Africa (Nigeria maybe?) to fight some rebels, and it was supposed to be some secret mission, but something "governmental" ended up happening, so just as they had made some headway in "taking care" of the problem, they had to leave, and the place fell into disarray again.

AgentJ said:

yep thats what i thought since you cant defend your fallacy stance you resort to failed insults. Nothing new here.
I know that myself and all the men i know wouldnt be affected in anyway what so ever if they were looking at a girl in a parka or butt naked and passed out when it comes to the issue of rape and unwanted touching. lol

SO again speak for yourself not men, because the majority do not share your uncontrollable feelings

let me know when you can back up your factually wrong stance.

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I never said that I felt that way. However, a great many men do.

Do you deny this?

ChrisL said:

One of the links I posted touched on this issue.

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You're going to have to show me the specific data.

It doesn't matter. They can find a woman sexually attractive in jeans too. Unless you are suggesting that we all walk around wearing burqas, the suggestions about dressing "more conservatively" are stupid.

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Appearing to be "sexually attractive," and "sexually available" are different things.

Very provocative attire makes a woman appear to be the latter.

Of course they are. What kind of man would get off on a girl begging him to NOT have sex with her and crying and fighting (and I don't mean role-playing LOL)? A sick man, that's what kind of man. What kind of man wants to have sex with an unresponsive corpse (which is basically what having sex with a passed out drunk person must be like)? A sick and disturbed man.

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He might very well have some "disturbed" or "anti-social" tendencies, but that does not mean that he is clinically ill, or necessarily different from a normal man in what he finds to be physically attractive.

A lot of people have anti-social tendencies who are not mentally ill.

That's not true at all. There are plenty of women who dress conservatively and sleep around.

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You got a source for that? :lol:

Most girls who dress provocatively are looking for ATTENTION, not sex.

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Then they're being stupid, because for men, they're the same thing.

I also do not believe for a single second that women who make a deliberate point of dressing promiscuously are not often also promiscuous.

Obviously, women disagree with you.

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And a lot of them get in trouble; hence why I consider it to be indicative of "poor judgment."

You didn't answer this one.

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I did.

Gathomas88 said:

So far, I've been accused of hating women, wanting them to wear burkas, and being a closet rapist.

You never can tell sometimes. :lol:

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See?

Some PEOPLE are, men and women, and the way they dress has nothing to do with that.

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By and large, I think you are going to find a correlation between style of dress and behavior in both men and women.

About burqas, you said (in a semi-kidding manner) once that "it wouldn't be such a bad idea." But I think you were semi-serious too.

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If women wanted to make absolutely sure that men never got the "wrong idea," yes.

However, I never said that achieving that goal was necessarily desirable in the first place.

Gathomas88 said:

You're going to have to show me the specific data.

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No way man! I'm not going back and finding them. I've been posting them for you, and you haven't even looked at them, that's not my problem. You'll have to go back and find them. :mrgreen:

Appearing to be sexually attractive, and sexually available are different things.

Very provocative attire makes a woman appear to be the latter.

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I don't think that matters to the rapist. What matters most to the rapist:

1) Is he going to be able to get away with it?
2) Is this woman going to put up too much of a fight?
3) Is it going to be easy enough to get her alone?

As I posted earlier, it is entirely possible that a woman who is dressed too overtly sexual may actually turn him off because of issues like self confidence and ego that said woman may possess. He wants an EASY target. He might even go for the most disgustingly drunk girl at the bar, and she could be dressed conservatively. There are plenty of women who go to bars and get inebriated, wearing pants suits and similar type clothing.

Let's look at how often rapes happen outside of strip clubs. If clothing or sexual availability of a person was a factor, then one would think strippers would be BIG targets. I really don't feel like it right now, but if you wanted to see what you could find about strippers being raped outside of the clubs, that might be interesting.

He might very well have some "disturbed" or "anti-social" tendencies, but that does not mean that he is clinically ill, or necessarily different from a normal man in what he finds to be physically attractive.

A lot of people have anti-social tendencies who are not mentally ill.

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They AT LEAST suffer from a personality disorder. If they can rape a woman, that means they don't have any empathy, and that is a classic sign of a sociopath. Why would you doubt that a rapist would be a sociopath? I would think that is just common sense. MOST men do not rape women. Only the mentally disturbed do, or those who suffer from a narcissistic type personality disorder perhaps (although that IS a symptom of a sociopath).

You got a source for that? :lol:

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Yes, I've known plenty and I've seen it myself many times.

Then they're being stupid, because for men, they're the same thing.

I also do not believe for a single second that women who dress promiscuously are not often also promiscuous.

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Well, you would be wrong on both counts.

And a lot of them get in trouble; hence why I consider it to be indicative of "poor judgment."

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A LOT of them do not get in trouble. YOU are blaming the wrong people here.

I did.



See?

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Why would you have a problem if women had to wear burqas?

By and large, I think you are going to find a correlation between style of dress and behavior in both men and women.

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Those are only YOUR prejudices and prejudgments.

If women wanted to make absolutely sure that men never got the "wrong idea," yes.

However, I never said that achieving that goal was necessarily desirable in the first place.

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Good God! :roll:

These posts are getting TOO long again. Stop breaking up every single sentence. Try responding to en bloc instead. :roll:

Gathomas88 said:

1.)I never said that I felt that way.
2.)However, a great many men do.
Do you deny this?

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translation: you still have nothing to back up your false claims.

1.) obviously you do, thats the only logical reason for your obvious projection with ZERO to support it. That much confidence in something so wrong cant really be explained any other way.

2.) it has nothing to do with "me", depending on your definition of "great many" yes facts prove it wrong.

theres about 150 million males in the US, heck 1% could be a great many

if you want me to say there are a lot of mentally deranged and sick people in the world i tell you yes every time

if you want me to say the majority of mean can be affected by what a women is wearing in regards to rape or unwanted touching of course the answer is no, thinking otherwise is completely absurd lol

now again do you have any factually proof of your inane claims or will you continue to project

ChrisL said:

No way man! I'm not going back and finding them. I've been posting them for you, and you haven't even looked at them, that's not my problem. You'll have to go back and find them. :mrgreen:

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None of those sources provided any kind of specific figures on the likelihood of a "nice girl" being date raped vs a "bad girl."

At least one of them did imply that more promiscuous women might be at a greater risk, however, IIRC.

I don't think that matters to the rapist. What matters most to the rapist:

1) Is he going to be able to get away with it?
2) Is this woman going to put up too much of a fight?
3) Is it going to be easy enough to get her alone?

As I posted earlier, it is entirely possible that a woman who is dressed too overtly sexual may actually turn him off because of issues like self confidence and ego that said woman may possess. He wants an EASY target. He might even go for the most disgustingly drunk girl at the bar, and she could be dressed conservatively. There are plenty of women who go to bars and get inebriated, wearing pants suits and similar type clothing.

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Again, you're assuming that we're talking about dedicated serial rapists here. They are not the kind who most commonly commit date rape.

Let's look at how often rapes happen outside of strip clubs. If clothing or sexual availability of a person was a factor, then one would think strippers would be BIG targets. I really don't feel like it right now, but if you wanted to see what you could find about strippers being raped outside of the clubs, that might be interesting.

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You know that strip clubs generally have big scary bouncers guarding the exits for a reason, right? :lol:

They AT LEAST suffer from a personality disorder. If they can rape a woman, that means they don't have any empathy, and that is a classic sign of a sociopath. Why would you doubt that a rapist would be a sociopath? I would think that is just common sense. MOST men do not rape women. Only the mentally disturbed do, or those who suffer from a narcissistic type personality disorder perhaps (although that IS a symptom of a sociopath).

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Maybe they do, but that's still not any reason to assume that they are all clinically ill.

I'm going to have to see some kind of evidence before I believe that.

Yes, I've known plenty and I've seen it myself many times.

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Again, I can think of no reason whatsoever to imagine that women who dress conservatively would be more promiscuous than those who deliberately dress to attract male attention.

Frankly, they would be doing it wrong. :lol:

Well, you would be wrong on both counts.

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I see absolutely no reason to assume that.

A LOT of them do not get in trouble. YOU are blaming the wrong people here.

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I'm not "blaming" anyone. A lot of women do get in trouble, precisely because of the behaviors we are currently discussing.

It is a fact.

Those are only YOUR prejudices and prejudgments.

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No, it's true. Generally speaking, the guy and gal at the bar with half a hundred notches on their bed posts are going to show at least some outward sign of it.

Good God! :roll:

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It's true. :shrug:

AGENT J said:

translation: you still have nothing to back up your false claims.

1.) obviously you do, thats the only logical reason for your obvious projection with ZERO to support it. That much confidence in something so wrong cant really be explained any other way.

2.) it has nothing to do with "me", depending on your definition of "great many" yes facts prove it wrong.

theres about 150 million males in the US, heck 1% could be a great many

if you want me to say there are a lot of mentally deranged and sick people in the world i tell you yes every time

if you want me to say the majority of mean can be affected by what a women is wearing in regards to rape or unwanted touching of course the answer is no, thinking otherwise is completely absurd lol

now again do you have any factually proof of your inane claims or will you continue to project

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If you're seriously trying to claim that most men do not make assumptions about the women they meet based upon their style of dress, you are simply out of touch with reality. :roll:

ChrisL said:

Did you ever see the movie Tears of the Sun? I think Bruce Willis was in it. It was an excellent movie but it really pissed me off at the same time with all the bureaucratic red tape and stuff.

I'm pretty sure it was based on a true story about a special ops team that went over to Africa (Nigeria maybe?) to fight some rebels, and it was supposed to be some secret mission, but something "governmental" ended up happening, so just as they had made some headway in "taking care" of the problem, they had to leave, and the place fell into disarray again.

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I've seen bits and pieces of it, well done movie.