• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Rape and Clothing

Rape and clothing correlation

  • I suspect women are wearing revealing clothes in most rape cases

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I suspect that a man/woman will rape regardless of the victims clothing

    Votes: 24 26.4%

  • I think some women are inviting dangerous attention when wearing revealing attire

    Votes: 5 5.5%

  • I don't think clothes have anything to do with rape

    Votes: 52 57.1%

  • Other

    Votes: 10 11.0%
  • Total voters
    91
Gathomas88 said:
Encouraging women to behave stupidly because "men should know well enough to behave themselves" isn't helping anyone or anything.

It simply makes them more likely to become victims.
Click to expand...

Well damn - I'm always hoping that statements like that will encourage men to, I don't know, treat men who behave in such ways as a blight on the male population of our species or maybe reiterate to the male perps that it's actually wrong. Wishful thinking I guess.

Let's get back to blaming the women - that'll get us further. :roll:
 
Gathomas88 said:
...........
Click to expand...

Encouraging women to behave stupidly because "men should know well enough to behave themselves" isn't helping anyone or anything.
Click to expand...
that's subjective though, especially in this context.

It simply makes them more likely to become victims.
Click to expand...
Only so long as we give men permission to misbehave and not take responsibility for their actions

Women really shouldn't be looking for an "equal share" in self-destructive fratboy style stupidity that most men don't even condone
Click to expand...
It's not about that. It's about having the same level of culpability for what comes from that if you do engage.
 
TurtleDude said:
Yeah that is the obvious PC answer

but some stuff that is called rape is NOT

so your silly little mantra has no real use here

of course real rape is wrong

but are you saying ANYITME a woman claims rape, the man is guilty?
Click to expand...

Lol! Well that's ALMOST as ridiculous as claiming every time a woman is dressed sexy she wants to have sex with her date or any other guy who finds her sexy. ;)
 
herenow1 said:
Irresponsible flakes? Do you think that most rapes are b/c of the woman being irresponsible, b/c that sentence makes it appear that way. I think if you had to listen to real stories of women who were raped you would walk away with a different view!
Click to expand...

I didn't say that most rapes were tied to such behavior. They are not.

However, you cannot deny that the generally more "loose" moral standards our society has been encouraging for the last several decades do play a role in creating environments, and encouraging behaviors, that often put women at risk.

"Date rape," for instance, is a phenomena which has only become a major problem since the 1960s.
 
Gathomas88 said:
I didn't say that most rapes were tied to such behavior. They are not.

However, you cannot deny that the generally more "loose" moral standards our society has been encouraging for the last several decades do play a role in creating environments, and encouraging behaviors, that often put women at risk.

"Date rape," for instance, is a phenomena which has only become a major problem since the 1960s.
Click to expand...


That is not true. The fact is that back in the old days, rape was even LESS reported crime than it is now!
 
opendebate said:
it's irrelevant and has no place in the discussion.
Click to expand...

So giving an accurate account of what was witnessed, including accurate descriptions of dress, have no place in a trial? Everything that tells the jury about the scene and actions of the people involved is not only not irrelevant, it is essential to the jury's ability to make an accurate judgment.

It is kind of funny, people are arguing about how the juror may perceive the description of how someone is dressed, but in doing so, they are making an unfounded assumption about the jurors with even less foundation for judgment.

All women who dress provocatively are sluts asking for it. All men and other women think that women who dress provocatively are sluts asking for it. Neither is accurate or correct, but you want to limit what the jury sees based upon the second statement? Or do you simply want more men convicted of rape when charged, regardless of guilt or innocence? When you use the second statement to pre-judge jurors, that is exactly what you are asking for.
 
Serenity said:
You're not going to like this very much when i say that that this particular conversation reminds me of my time in the ME. A lot of the males i came into contact with were pretty outspoken about why women should remain veiled. They also thought women should be invisible to men, for their own safety and to protect men from lustful thoughts.

That's a backward way of thinking Gath.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go that extreme. However, I absolutely do think that there is probably a "happy medium" in there somewhere.

"I can let it all hang out, get wasted, and hit on every guy in the bar if I want and not expect men to get any sexual ideas at all" really wouldn't strike me as being it, however. :lol:

Aunt Spiker said:
Well damn - I'm always hoping that statements like that will encourage men to, I don't know, treat men who behave in such ways as a blight on the male population of our species or maybe reiterate to the male perps that it's actually wrong. Wishful thinking I guess.

Let's get back to blaming the women - that'll get us further. :roll:
Click to expand...

They're douchebags. No one's denying that.

There's a reason why rapists often tend to be raped themselves in prison, after all.

However, none of this means that those kinds of men are going to be going away any time soon.

opendebate said:
Only so long as we give men permission to misbehave and not take responsibility for their actions
Click to expand...

How do you figure that we're giving them "permission to misbehave?"

Are rapists not generally despised and prosecuted?

It's not about that. It's about having the same level of culpability for what comes from that if you do engage.
Click to expand...

Which is why women should have the presence of mind to properly look out for their own safety in the first place.
 
TurtleDude said:
Yeah that is the obvious PC answer

but some stuff that is called rape is NOT

so your silly little mantra has no real use here

of course real rape is wrong

but are you saying ANYITME a woman claims rape, the man is guilty?
Click to expand...


Nothing PC about it.

Rape, wrong, end of story.

"ANYITME"
 
DVSentinel said:
So giving an accurate account of what was witnessed, including accurate descriptions of dress, have no place in a trial? Everything that tells the jury about the scene and actions of the people involved is not only not irrelevant, it is essential to the jury's ability to make an accurate judgment.

It is kind of funny, people are arguing about how the juror may perceive the description of how someone is dressed, but in doing so, they are making an unfounded assumption about the jurors with even less foundation for judgment.

All women who dress provocatively are sluts asking for it. All men and other women think that women who dress provocatively are sluts asking for it. Neither is accurate or correct, but you want to limit what the jury sees based upon the second statement? Or do you simply want more men convicted of rape when charged, regardless of guilt or innocence? When you use the second statement to pre-judge jurors, that is exactly what you are asking for.
Click to expand...

many years ago, I was at the TGIF restaurant where my then girlfriend worked. One of the more radicalized feminists who worked there came up and asked what I thought of the William Kennedy Smith verdict that had been announced that day.

I said RIGHT VERDICT

and she got all upset and said OF COURSE YOU THINK THAT WAY you are a man

I said I despise most of the Kennedys but this guy was no rapist

I then asked her WHAT evidence proved rape

everything Bowman said was contradicted by facts

she said THE WORD OF THE WOMAN was ENOUGH

and that my friends is the sort of nonsense that is the other side of the "women are sluts" argument
 
I was actually surprised (when I looked up some 'warning signs that the guy near you is a royal rapist doucher') info that 'he was a nice guy' doesn't come up - I don't know why I expected rapists to pretend to be nice in order to get close to the women they attack.

about date rape
Trust your gut feelings
Never feel that you have to spend time alone with someone who makes you feel uneasy or uncomfortable. Listen to your instincts and leave situations that you don't feel good about. Don't wait for someone to look out for you or for things to get better, because chances are they won't.

Alcohol
Some guys will be really generous and buy you drinks all night, but they might have hidden reasons. Getting a girl drunk is a common way to make her drop her inhibitions.
You may be less able to refuse someone who is making a move on you or pressuring you to do something you don't want to do. It's best to buy your own drinks and to keep an eye on them. Read more about alcohol and drugs.

Be choosy about guys
Be careful about who you hang out with. There's no sure way to tell which guys could be dodgy, but watch out for guys who:

  • ignore you or don't really listen to you
  • do unwanted touching or invade your personal space
  • want to control what you do and make decisions for you
  • make suggestive or crude remarks about women.

Know your sexual rights
How often do guys say 'You would if you loved me …'? Sex shouldn't be the only way you can show somebody you love them. And sex is not meant to one-sided – it should be something you both want.
Remember, you have the right to say no, even if you've had sex with him before, and you also have the right to change your mind. It is never OK to force somebody into having sex.
It can be particularly hard to say no to a guy you like – you might enjoy kissing and touching but aren't ready to have sex just yet. It's good to be firm and straightforward about what you do and don't want to do.
In an equal relationship, each person has the right to stop the activity at any time. If he really cares about you he will respect your decision and will not start or continue anything you don't like.

Look out for your mates
When you go out in a group to a party, pub or club, look out for each other and make sure that everyone you came with gets home safely. If you're concerned about what a friend is doing, talk to them about it.

Break the silence
If you've been forced into sex against your will it is not your fault. It may help to talk to somebody about what happened, like a friend, a trusted adult or a counsellor at a sexual assault service or crisis line. Remember, you're not alone.

10 warning signs
1. Being alone with someone you don't know well
2. Not knowing how you're going to get home
3. An instinctive 'bad feeling' about a situation
4. Drinking too much alcohol
5. Accepting drinks from people, particularly if the drink tastes or smells 'funny'
6. Guys who don't listen to you or show respect
7. A guy who insists on coming into your house when he drops you home
8. Unwanted touching by a guy
9. Guys who say 'You would if you loved me …'
10. A friend who's not in control and is being taken advantage of
 
DVSentinel said:
So giving an accurate account of what was witnessed, including accurate descriptions of dress, have no place in a trial? Everything that tells the jury about the scene and actions of the people involved is not only not irrelevant, it is essential to the jury's ability to make an accurate judgment.

It is kind of funny, people are arguing about how the juror may perceive the description of how someone is dressed, but in doing so, they are making an unfounded assumption about the jurors with even less foundation for judgment.

All women who dress provocatively are sluts asking for it. All men and other women think that women who dress provocatively are sluts asking for it. Neither is accurate or correct, but you want to limit what the jury sees based upon the second statement? Or do you simply want more men convicted of rape when charged, regardless of guilt or innocence? When you use the second statement to pre-judge jurors, that is exactly what you are asking for.
Click to expand...

CLOTHING has nothing to do with consenting to sex. What don't you get about that?
 
ChrisL said:
That is not true. The fact is that back in the old days, rape was even LESS reported crime than it is now!
Click to expand...

Date rape wouldn't have been as common before the Sexual Revolution simply because the environment necessary for it wouldn't have existed. By and large, young men and women really were not dressing promiscuously, congregating en masse at bars and night clubs, getting plastered, and attempting to take strangers home prior to the 1960s.

Regular rape would have still existed, but "he said - she said" cases were a lot less common.
 
beefheart said:
Nothing PC about it.

Rape, wrong, end of story.

"ANYITME"
Click to expand...


uh I guess you haven't been reading the thread: this mantra might be correct but its pretty much an intellectual cop out concerning this topic. Is the purpose of your comment to score some points with the women?
 
Gathomas88 said:
I didn't say that most rapes were tied to such behavior. They are not.

However, you cannot deny that the generally more "loose" moral standards our society has been encouraging for the last several decades do play a role in creating environments, and encouraging behaviors, that often put women at risk.

"Date rape," for instance, is a phenomena which has only become a major problem since the 1960s.
Click to expand...

Yes the culture is changing and is always changing...what was wrong is now right,and what was right is now wrong. Let's make this more relatable to you since most men can't relate to rape or the fear of being raped. Let's say you have a gay buddy, and he is open about it to everyone. Let's say you guys go out to a sports bar and watch a game. You have a beer or two but not enough to get you drunk. Your friend parks his car at your house but doesn't feel like driving home so he asks to stay at your place. You say sure, and you both go to different rooms for the night. Let's say 10 min later he comes to your room and starts putting on the moves and talking about how good you looked tonight. You tell him he needs to back off but b/c he is bigger and stronger than you, he overpowers you! You have just been raped and now you can't tell anyone b/c after all YOU gave him permission to stay at your house and you KNEW that he was gay. Who is to blame in this situation? Were you being irresponsible?
 
Last edited:
Gathomas88 said:
I wouldn't go that extreme. However, I absolutely do think that there is probably a "happy medium" in there somewhere.

"I can let it all hang out, get wasted, and hit on every guy in the bar if I want and not expect men to get any sexual ideas at all" really wouldn't strike me as being it, however. :lol:



They're douchebags. No one's denying that.

There's a reason why rapists often tend to be raped themselves in prison, after all.

However, none of this means that those kinds of men are going to be going away any time soon.



How do you figure that we're giving them "permission to misbehave?"

Are rapists not generally despised and prosecuted?



Which is why women should have the presence of mind to properly look out for their own safety in the first place.
Click to expand...

I think that all the women have pretty much agreed that responsible behavior is important, but that you can still dress sexy and behave responsibly at the same time. Basing your opinions and judgments on the clothing of a person alone is just not right.
 
TurtleDude said:
uh I guess you haven't been reading the thread: this mantra might be correct but its pretty much an intellectual cop out concerning this topic. Is the purpose of your comment to score some points with the women?
Click to expand...

It's b/c in my initial post I excluded the he said she said cases and wanted to focus on true rape cases.

""Since posters are getting upset that the yoga thread keeps getting derailed I will ask this here. Do you think most (true cases- not made up, let's not turn this into he said she said discussion) people who get raped are wearing revealing clothing?""
 
TurtleDude said:
uh I guess you haven't been reading the thread: this mantra might be correct but its pretty much an intellectual cop out concerning this topic. Is the purpose of your comment to score some points with the women?
Click to expand...


Don't care. No equivocation, rape is rape. Wrong is wrong.

No mitigating factors.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I was actually surprised (when I looked up some 'warning signs that the guy near you is a royal rapist doucher') info that 'he was a nice guy' doesn't come up - I don't know why I expected rapists to pretend to be nice in order to get close to the women they attack.

about date rape
Trust your gut feelings
Never feel that you have to spend time alone with someone who makes you feel uneasy or uncomfortable. Listen to your instincts and leave situations that you don't feel good about. Don't wait for someone to look out for you or for things to get better, because chances are they won't.

Alcohol
Some guys will be really generous and buy you drinks all night, but they might have hidden reasons. Getting a girl drunk is a common way to make her drop her inhibitions.
You may be less able to refuse someone who is making a move on you or pressuring you to do something you don't want to do. It's best to buy your own drinks and to keep an eye on them. Read more about alcohol and drugs.

Be choosy about guys
Be careful about who you hang out with. There's no sure way to tell which guys could be dodgy, but watch out for guys who:

  • ignore you or don't really listen to you
  • do unwanted touching or invade your personal space
  • want to control what you do and make decisions for you
  • make suggestive or crude remarks about women.

Know your sexual rights
How often do guys say 'You would if you loved me …'? Sex shouldn't be the only way you can show somebody you love them. And sex is not meant to one-sided – it should be something you both want.
Remember, you have the right to say no, even if you've had sex with him before, and you also have the right to change your mind. It is never OK to force somebody into having sex.
It can be particularly hard to say no to a guy you like – you might enjoy kissing and touching but aren't ready to have sex just yet. It's good to be firm and straightforward about what you do and don't want to do.
In an equal relationship, each person has the right to stop the activity at any time. If he really cares about you he will respect your decision and will not start or continue anything you don't like.

Look out for your mates
When you go out in a group to a party, pub or club, look out for each other and make sure that everyone you came with gets home safely. If you're concerned about what a friend is doing, talk to them about it.

Break the silence
If you've been forced into sex against your will it is not your fault. It may help to talk to somebody about what happened, like a friend, a trusted adult or a counsellor at a sexual assault service or crisis line. Remember, you're not alone.

10 warning signs
1. Being alone with someone you don't know well
2. Not knowing how you're going to get home
3. An instinctive 'bad feeling' about a situation
4. Drinking too much alcohol
5. Accepting drinks from people, particularly if the drink tastes or smells 'funny'
6. Guys who don't listen to you or show respect
7. A guy who insists on coming into your house when he drops you home
8. Unwanted touching by a guy
9. Guys who say 'You would if you loved me …'
10. A friend who's not in control and is being taken advantage of
Click to expand...

I'm sure that some guys would definitely use the "nice guy" approach. In fact, I'm quite sure I've heard of rapes occurring after men have offered to "help" a woman in different instances, approaching her as a nice and helpful person.
 
herenow1 said:
It's b/c in my initial post I excluded the he said she said cases and wanted to focus on true rape cases.

""Since posters are getting upset that the yoga thread keeps getting derailed I will ask this here. Do you think most (true cases- not made up, let's not turn this into he said she said discussion) people who get raped are wearing revealing clothing?""
Click to expand...

fair enough but some are going to get angry when you claim such cases are not "true rape cases" (consent cases)

I said violent rape can never be justified by what someone wears.
 
beefheart said:
Don't care. No equivocation, rape is rape. Wrong is wrong.

No mitigating factors.
Click to expand...

again, what exactly are you trying to establish with this mantra

are you trying to score points with the women?

or are you trying to prove something to yourself?

your comments are pretty worthless for this thread
 
Gathomas88 said:
Date rape wouldn't have been as common before the Sexual Revolution simply because the environment necessary for it wouldn't have existed. By and large, young men and women really were not dressing promiscuously, congregating en masse at bars and night clubs, getting plastered, and attempting to take strangers home prior to the 1960s.

Regular rape would have still existed, but "he said - she said" cases were a lot less common.
Click to expand...

That is not true at all. People still went out on dates back then. Rape has been common throughout the ages. I don't know what you're talking about.
 
TurtleDude said:
again, what exactly are you trying to establish with this mantra

are you trying to score points with the women?

or are you trying to prove something to yourself?

your comments are pretty worthless for this thread
Click to expand...

No, just noting there are constants in this world. You don't rape people, you don't beat children, you don't take advantage of mentally or physically handicapped and you don't torture animals.

All things in which there is no equivocation or "yeah, but..."

I am not saying this to make myself look good, shame on you for even making that assumption.

Sorry that you have to face hard truths.
 
beefheart said:
No, just noting there are constants in this world. You don't rape people, you don't beat children, you don't take advantage of mentally or physically handicapped and you don't torture animals.

All things in which there is no equivocation or "yeah, but..."

I am not saying this to make myself look good, shame on you for even making that assumption.

Sorry that you have to face hard truths.
Click to expand...

I am just laughing at what appears to be a silly combination of Captain Obvious comments and PC nonsense
 
herenow1 said:
Yes the culture is changing and is always changing...what was wrong is now right,and what was right is now wrong. Let's make this more relatable to you since most men can't relate to rape or the fear of being raped. Let's say you have a gay buddy, and he is open about it to everyone. Let's say you guys go out to a sports bar and watch a game. You have a beer or two but not enough to get you drunk. Your friend parks his car at your house but doesn't feel like driving home so he asks to stay at your place. You say sure, and you both go to different rooms for the night. Let's say 10 min later he comes to your room and starts putting on the moves and talking about how good you looked tonight. You tell him he needs to back off but b/c he is bigger and stronger than you, he overpowers you! You have just been raped and now you can't tell anyone b/c after all YOU gave him permission to stay at your house and you KNEW that he was gay. Who is to blame in this situation? Were you being irresponsible?
Click to expand...

Actually any man could answer this, not just gath. Btw- I used the gay friend comparison b/c it's equivalent to a female letting a male friend spend the night!
 
Last edited:
TurtleDude said:
I am just laughing at what appears to be a silly combination of Captain Obvious comments and PC nonsense
Click to expand...

Do you disagree with me?

If not, then don't mock my message and grow the hell up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom