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Rape and Clothing

Rape and clothing correlation

  • I suspect women are wearing revealing clothes in most rape cases

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I suspect that a man/woman will rape regardless of the victims clothing

    Votes: 24 26.4%
  • I think some women are inviting dangerous attention when wearing revealing attire

    Votes: 5 5.5%
  • I don't think clothes have anything to do with rape

    Votes: 52 57.1%
  • Other

    Votes: 10 11.0%

  • Total voters
    91
clothing has no relevance in violent rape cases

clothing does play a role in determining He said/She said consent cases
 
That might not be true at all. If that were the case, rapists would be hanging around at beaches and that is where rapes would occur most often because that is where females are wearing the least clothing. Instead, like another person noted, most rapes are probably occurring at college campuses because that is where the most opportunities are present because the college women are getting too drunk. Those guys aren't looking for the most scantily clad girl but the one who is the most drunk because they think they might be able to get away with it.

Sometimes it is premeditated. Sometimes it is not.

As I've already said, a woman's level of dress (or lack thereof) is often taken as an indicator of her willingness to have sex. Some of the guys who are drawn to that kind of girl are not especially respectful towards women in general, and might not handle rejection very well if they discover that their initial perception was wrong; trying to take advantage of the girl in question, or drunkenly force themselves upon her.

That's how girls wind up getting in trouble.

Usually, when women are stalked and raped, it has very little if anything at all to do with their clothing because that is usually someone they know or are acquainted with.

Then those aren't the rapes we're talking about here.
 
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clothing has no relevance in violent rape cases

clothing does play a role in determining He said/She said consent cases

How so? Clothing does not equal any kind of consent for sexual activity IMO. I don't see how that makes any sense, and it shouldn't be allowed as evidence at all IMO.
 
Do you really think what she was wearing a valid defense for rape?

What about this? Does this include things such as "what was she wearing?" Perhaps under "opinion evidence?"

Rape shield law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


no but it is relevant in determining cases where the man said the woman agreed and she denies it

example (a case in Cincinnati I am familiar with)

scenario #1.

A woman comes into a bar wearing say overalls. She sits by herself at the bar, doesn't talk to anyone, has a drink, goes out to her car, and then comes back in and approaches several patrons-all of whom are men. She leaves with one man. The next morning she claims she was raped and had asked for a ride home because her car didn't start.


Scenario #2. a woman comes into the same bar dressed in a skintight bodysuit, patterned tights, a very short skirt an stiletto heels. She spends the night flirting with a couple guys and leaves with one of them. The next morning she claims she was raped by the guy she left with.

Now, all we have in both scenarios is the conflicting testimony of the "victim" and the "perpetrator"

IN both scenarios, the men claimed the women wanted sex. the women both deny that

you are the judge of the facts.

which case are you more likely to believe that the intent of the "victim" that night was to pick up men

which case is it more likely that the woman wanted, or at least implied that she wanted to have sex?
 
Sometimes it is premeditated. Sometimes it is not.

As I've already said, a woman's level of dress (or lack thereof) is often taken as an indicator of her willingness to have sex.

Well Gathomas. Let me educate you. ;) It doesn't mean that.

Some of the guys who are drawn to that kind of woman are not especially respectful towards women, and might not handle rejection very well if they discover that their initial perception was wrong; trying to take advantage of the girl in question, or drunkenly force themselves upon her.

That's how girls wind up getting in trouble.

I can agree with this, but again it has little to nothing to do with how a woman is dressed and more about the opportunity that has presented itself in his sick mind.

IOW, I don't think rapists CARE that much about the appearance of their victim as long as they are not grotesque. They just want to get laid, and so they rape an easy target. That is how I see it.



Then those aren't the rapes we're talking about here.

No specific rape scenarios are described in the OP, so I can talk about that too. :mrgreen:
 
How so? Clothing does not equal any kind of consent for sexual activity IMO. I don't see how that makes any sense, and it shouldn't be allowed as evidence at all IMO.

well unlike you I watched the William Kennedy Smith case from start to finish

Patricia Bowman claimed she had no intent of having sex that night. She denied-under cross-that she intended to "troll for a guy" at a well known singles bar. She claimed she only went out that night to visit a friend and the friend's new baby but after arriving at her friend's home, she decided to go bar hopping with the friend (I believe the friend's husband was going to watch the baby)

ok that was her testimony

so how did her attire figure into that

well the evidence reflected she wore a skimpy black dress, 60 dollar Givenchy pantyhose an spiked heels

now tell me Chris-is that attire consistent with

a) a woman whose intentions as she was getting dressed was to go visit with a mom with a new born baby

b) a woman who was out looking for attention at a singles bar (where she was picked up by William Kennedy Smith)
 
You mean to tell me you always walk in pairs with other women at night? You've never been somewhere later than you intended and found yourself walking to your car in a garage somewhere? I'm all about common sense, but sometimes life happens and you don't always have a bodyguard or two-three other girlfriends with you at the snap of a finger.Sometimes things happen and it causes you to reassess everything you THOUGHT you knew!

I don't park in enclosed garages. The last time I did? Probably ten years ago. I asked security to escort me to my car. If I'm out alone late at night (like girls' night out), we're all walking to the parking lot together, never alone. If I'm parked in a large parking lot (like shopping), day or night, I'm always watching my surroundings, checking the back seat of my car, locking my door as quickly as I open it.

More than a few times, when the elevator door has opened and I see someone who is 'questionable' in my estimation, as I start to walk on the elevator, I've said, "DAMN it. Sorry, forgot something." It's a knee-jerk response I'm prepped with anytime I'm walking into an elevator. If I were to use a stairwell, it would only be because the building was on fire. I valet my car any time I have that opportunity. I have signage on my car (magnetic on both sides). When picking up my car, I've asked the valet to remove it more than once before driving up to the pick-up spot because someone has given me the creeps.

When I feel the hairs on the back of my neck stand up? I believe 'em.

I've taken a number of 'dirty street fighting' classes and, unless I was blitzed, I think MAYBE I could put up a somewhat reasonable defense. Certainly I'd leave the cops with some DNA. ;) The classes included both defensive and offensive tactics. I wish I had more practice time with them, but still . . .

These are the lessons we should teach our daughters. And after that? Perhaps a CCW.
 
no but it is relevant in determining cases where the man said the woman agreed and she denies it

example (a case in Cincinnati I am familiar with)

scenario #1.

A woman comes into a bar wearing say overalls. She sits by herself at the bar, doesn't talk to anyone, has a drink, goes out to her car, and then comes back in and approaches several patrons-all of whom are men. She leaves with one man. The next morning she claims she was raped and had asked for a ride home because her car didn't start.


Scenario #2. a woman comes into the same bar dressed in a skintight bodysuit, patterned tights, a very short skirt an stiletto heels. She spends the night flirting with a couple guys and leaves with one of them. The next morning she claims she was raped by the guy she left with.

Now, all we have in both scenarios is the conflicting testimony of the "victim" and the "perpetrator"

IN both scenarios, the men claimed the women wanted sex. the women both deny that

you are the judge of the facts.

which case are you more likely to believe that the intent of the "victim" that night was to pick up men

which case is it more likely that the woman wanted, or at least implied that she wanted to have sex?


I still fail to see where the clothing matters at all. Most people are dressed up when they go out to the club and very few would show up in overalls. It's not out of the ordinary for women to be dressed up at a bar/club, whether she intends to pick up men or not.

I would think in the scenarios above, it was the woman's behavior that was an indicator and not how she was dressed, and even in those scenarios that is no defense IMO. If she said NO, then that means NO.
 
I still fail to see where the clothing matters at all. Most people are dressed up when they go out to the club and very few would show up in overalls. It's not out of the ordinary for women to be dressed up at a bar/club, whether she intends to pick up men or not.

I would think in the scenarios above, it was the woman's behavior that was an indicator and not how she was dressed, and even in those scenarios that is no defense IMO. If she said NO, then that means NO.

YOu miss the point

the jury wasn't there

they know she claimed she said NO

they Know the Man said SHE CONSENTED

how do you tell who is telling the truth?
 
well unlike you I watched the William Kennedy Smith case from start to finish

Patricia Bowman claimed she had no intent of having sex that night. She denied-under cross-that she intended to "troll for a guy" at a well known singles bar. She claimed she only went out that night to visit a friend and the friend's new baby but after arriving at her friend's home, she decided to go bar hopping with the friend (I believe the friend's husband was going to watch the baby)

ok that was her testimony

so how did her attire figure into that

well the evidence reflected she wore a skimpy black dress, 60 dollar Givenchy pantyhose an spiked heels

now tell me Chris-is that attire consistent with

a) a woman whose intentions as she was getting dressed was to go visit with a mom with a new born baby

b) a woman who was out looking for attention at a singles bar (where she was picked up by William Kennedy Smith)

Well, there could be many different reasons why she would be dressed like that, and that sounds like a very classy outfit to me and not at all "slutty." But anyway, she could have just come from some kind of gathering, or maybe that's just how she dresses?

I can't see how that could be a valid defense against any level of rape. Just because a person might want to show off his or her body does not mean they are consenting to sex either.
 
YOu miss the point

the jury wasn't there

they know she claimed she said NO

they Know the Man said SHE CONSENTED

how do you tell who is telling the truth?

Not by clothes! :roll:
 
Well Gathomas. Let me educate you. ;) It doesn't mean that.

Arguably, there are some women like that. However, I absolutely agree that this generally is not the case. :lol:

A lot guys believe it anyway regardless though. lol

I can agree with this, but again it has little to nothing to do with how a woman is dressed and more about the opportunity that has presented itself in his sick mind.

Okay, but one of the reasons why that "opportunity" presented itself in his mind in the first place was her style of dress. That's the whole problem. :shrug:

As such, if you're going to willingly enter the kinds of establishments those men frequent, and dress in such a way as to draw their attention, it is generally advisable to take precautions to make sure they don't get the wrong idea, or you can fight them off if need be.

IOW, I don't think rapists CARE that much about the appearance of their victim as long as they are not grotesque. They just want to get laid, and so they rape an easy target. That is how I see it.

Some do and some don't. Not all rapes, or rapists, are the same.

Sometimes rape is a serial obsession and sometimes it is more of a crime of passion. Clothing wouldn't play a role in the former, but can sometimes play a role in the latter.

No specific rape scenarios are described in the OP, so I can talk about that too. :mrgreen:

Which is why I'm pointing out that there are some rape scenarios where clothing can play a contributing role. ;)
 
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Well, there could be many different reasons why she would be dressed like that, and that sounds like a very classy outfit to me and not at all "slutty." But anyway, she could have just come from some kind of gathering, or maybe that's just how she dresses?

I can't see how that could be a valid defense against any level of rape. Just because a person might want to show off his or her body does not mean they are consenting to sex either.

Nope the testimony was that she dressed that way to go visit a new born baby-nothing more nothing less
 
I don't park in enclosed garages. The last time I did? Probably ten years ago. I asked security to escort me to my car. If I'm out alone late at night (like girls' night out), we're all walking to the parking lot together, never alone. If I'm parked in a large parking lot (like shopping), day or night, I'm always watching my surroundings, checking the back seat of my car, locking my door as quickly as I open it.

More than a few times, when the elevator door has opened and I see someone who is 'questionable' in my estimation, as I start to walk on the elevator, I've said, "DAMN it. Sorry, forgot something." It's a knee-jerk response I'm prepped with anytime I'm walking into an elevator. If I were to use a stairwell, it would only be because the building was on fire. I valet my car any time I have that opportunity. I have signage on my car (magnetic on both sides). When picking up my car, I've asked the valet to remove it more than once before driving up to the pick-up spot because someone has given me the creeps.

When I feel the hairs on the back of my neck stand up? I believe 'em.

I've taken a number of 'dirty street fighting' classes and, unless I was blitzed, I think MAYBE I could put up a somewhat reasonable defense. Certainly I'd leave the cops with some DNA. ;) The classes included both defensive and offensive tactics. I wish I had more practice time with them, but still . . .

These are the lessons we should teach our daughters. And after that? Perhaps a CCW.

Funny, I've had the same feelings when being alone with a guy on an elevator, but I've never not gotten into an elevator b/c of it. I think that's just a normal ( initial) reaction based on what ' could' happen. I trust my feelings but am also honest enough to admit when it's my own paranoia. I've never been attacked in an elevator but I do get those feelings whenever I'm alone with a man in one. Because I know these feelings ALWAYS surface,it's not necessarily a spidey sense type of thing.
I still see nothing wrong with arming yourself especially if you travel alone and are single!
 
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I still see nothing wrong with arming yourself especially if you travel alone and are single!

I don't either, Herenow1. I just don't think it's enough. Nor do I think it's a particularly effective first line of defense.
 
Nope the testimony was that she dressed that way to go visit a new born baby-nothing more nothing less

But does that mean she wanted to have sex? Not necessarily by any means. Maybe she just thinks she looks good in that outfit? Maybe it's her favorite outfit? Maybe she was hoping to meet someone, that doesn't mean she wanted sex either though.
 
How so? Clothing does not equal any kind of consent for sexual activity IMO. I don't see how that makes any sense, and it shouldn't be allowed as evidence at all IMO.


When men see a woman dressed in a very sexy, let alone "slutty", manner, many they tend to think she is advertising some degree of willingness.

With most men who think this, a firm "no" is sufficient. However, there are a few men for whom "no" is simply a trigger that sets off the worst in them.

Just sayin'.
 
Not by clothes! :roll:

Its called intent and intent can be deciphered by the actions that are evident leading up to the dispute of material fact
 
When men see a woman dressed in a very sexy, let alone "slutty", manner, many they tend to think she is advertising some degree of willingness.

With most men who think this, a firm "no" is sufficient. However, there are a few men for whom "no" is simply a trigger that sets off the worst in them.

Just sayin'.

the problem comes in so called date rape cases where the woman willingly engages in SOME degree of intimacy with the alleged perpetrator but claims that she said NO before the ultimate act. The jury has to decide if she really did say no or changed her mind after she said yes and the act took place. AND yes, that sort of stuff does happen.
 
But does that mean she wanted to have sex? Not necessarily by any means. Maybe she just thinks she looks good in that outfit? Maybe it's her favorite outfit? Maybe she was hoping to meet someone, that doesn't mean she wanted sex either though.

true and we don't know when one party to the intercourse said she didn't want to get drilled and the man said she said yes. To determine who is telling the truth, we have to judge which actions-that others witnessed-are more consistent with the conflicting testimony of the only two witnesses to what happened in bed.
 
Arguably, there are some women like that. However, I absolutely agree that this generally is not the case. :lol:

However, a lot guys believe it anyway regardless. lol

Well in most cases they would be wrong. :lol: Some women like to show off their bodies, and it has nothing to do with sex at all. It's as simple as that.

Okay, but one of the reasons why that "opportunity" presented itself in his mind in the first place was her style of dress. That's the whole problem. :shrug:

That's HIS problem. Don't ever expect sex because of the way a woman is dressed. Okay? It doesn't mean anything.

As such, if you're going to willingly enter the kinds of establishments those men frequent, and dress in such a way as to draw their attention, it is generally advisable to take precautions to make sure they don't get the wrong idea, or you can fight them off if need be.

You yourself told me before that the only reason that the men frequent these establishments to begin with is because of the women who go there, so maybe you guys should just avoid going to places where women are if you cannot control yourselves. :)

Some do and some don't. Not all rapes, or rapists, are the same.

I would say that the majority do not as long as she is not grotesque. Unless they have been stalking a person, then it is the particular person they are interested in.

Sometimes rape is a serial obsession and sometimes it is more of a crime of passion. Clothing wouldn't play a role in the former, but can sometimes play a role in the latter.

I doubt that rapists are talking up the prettiest girl in the room. They are looking for the EASIEST target, and a lot of times that would be the more shy and quiet person, rather than the drunk belligerent one who's dancing around making a scene.



Which is why I'm pointing out that there are some rape scenarios where clothing can play a contributing role. ;)

If it plays a role at all, I think it plays a very insignificant role.
 
When men see a woman dressed in a very sexy, let alone "slutty", manner, many they tend to think she is advertising some degree of willingness.

With most men who think this, a firm "no" is sufficient. However, there are a few men for whom "no" is simply a trigger that sets off the worst in them.

Just sayin'.

I agree with that, but usually that scenario would occur because the woman was flirting excessively with the man, seducing him so to speak. I am skeptical that a man walks into a bar and just because a woman is wearing a short skirt he thinks she wants to have sex with him UNLESS she made him think so in another way.
 
Its called intent and intent can be deciphered by the actions that are evident leading up to the dispute of material fact

Well, I don't think that should be able to be considered because it is certainly far from being adequate.
 
true and we don't know when one party to the intercourse said she didn't want to get drilled and the man said she said yes. To determine who is telling the truth, we have to judge which actions-that others witnessed-are more consistent with the conflicting testimony of the only two witnesses to what happened in bed.

Clothing isn't giving consent though. It shouldn't matter what the rapist man's prejudgements of this woman were based upon her clothing. :shrug:
 
Well, I don't think that should be able to be considered because it is certainly far from being adequate.

well having sat through a couple such cases I know what evidence is used
 
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