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Is religious freedom actually possible

Is religious freedom actually possible?

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 58.7%

  • No

    Votes: 12 26.1%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 5 10.9%

  • I didnt bother reading the post so yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I didn't bother reading the post so no

    Votes: 2 4.3%
  • Total voters
    46
Eric7216 said:
We discriminate for many other reason such as height, weight, speech impediments, and many other reasons that have not yet found their way into laws and protected classes...
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I know of at least one city that prohibits weight/obesity based discrimination. Discrimination based on height and speech impediments could be considered a violation of disability rights and actionable. The designation of protected classes is based on history, the reason why some groups (for example tall people) are not specifically protected is that they have not suffered much discrimination. However, the anti-discrimination laws protect members of majority groups as well as minorities. As seen in apartheid South Africa, majorities can be the target for discrimination, not just minorities.
 
iguanaman said:
You are so right. Every time I hear "people have changed" I remember Alan Greenspan in the days before the Bank deregulation in 2000. He went on and on about how those old laws were not needed and bankers would NEVER behave like they did in the 1920's. 7 years later the entire financial system collapsed much like it did way back when. Will we never learn?
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So you're blaming deregulation?
 
Hard Truth said:
I know of at least one city that prohibits weight/obesity based discrimination. Discrimination based on height and speech impediments could be considered a violation of disability rights and actionable. The designation of protected classes is based on history, the reason why some groups (for example tall people) are not specifically protected is that they have not suffered much discrimination. However, the anti-discrimination laws protect members of majority groups as well as minorities. As seen in apartheid South Africa, majorities can be the target for discrimination, not just minorities.
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This is a different subject than religious freedom.
But it is sad that by focusing on historical discrimination we are going in precisely the opposite direction that we should be going. By so doing we are doing the opposite of MLK Jr's admonishing to judge not by the color of your skin but the contend of your heart. Bigots assume that all people in a ethnic group were the same and shared an undesirable quality. By focusing on historic discrimination we are doing the same thing, ignoring all the differences within some racial/ethnic group. An African American may be the victim of racial discrimination or a recent Ibo immigrant from Nigeria where he benefitted from a favored status and discriminated against others. White is an extremely large group and includes the two largest groups ancestry groups of US citizens, German and Irish, both of whom, despite plurality status, faced discrimination. The Mancusean logic of favoring one ethnic group over another due to past discrimination will only led to some future grievances. In the 1960's I understood that there was discrimination and this was wrong. Now the belief seems to be, no, it is right to discriminate as long as you discriminate against the right people.
 
d0gbreath said:
I have had freedom of religion so far in my life. As a follower of Rev. Martin Luther I am not required to witness, and I very rarely do. If I did I would mention that the passage "It is an abomination unto God to lie with a man as you would lie with a woman", is obviously directed at heterosexual men. A homosexual man would never lie with a woman, so they are not the intended audience.

Study the ancient Greeks, Plato, Socrates etc.

You will find that that Bible passage was needed to keep heterosexual men from wasting seed with other men. I'm sorry to say it was a very common practice back then.
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"wasting seed" I don't get that. Men produce a lot of seed all the time, more than most of us will ever need.
 
Jetboogieman said:
:doh


So what do you say to those christian tea partiers that wanted to stop Muslims from building a Mosque?
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That's what Muslims do at a site where they murdered 1000s of people. Build a victory mosque.
 
Religious freedom in the manner you are talking about is easily achieved but people won't let it. The country, the government and any entity that wishes can support gay marriage without the consent of the church. At the same time any specific church should be allowed to refuse to to marry anyone they wish on any grounds they wish. The problem I see with all this is churches (meaning all religions) don't want gays married at all. And gays want to be allowed to be married anywhere. The solution is pretty simple. Let each "center" who is legally allowed to perform marriage choose who they marry and the states/governments respect that.
 
Kreton said:
Religious freedom in the manner you are talking about is easily achieved but people won't let it. The country, the government and any entity that wishes can support gay marriage without the consent of the church. At the same time any specific church should be allowed to refuse to to marry anyone they wish on any grounds they wish. The problem I see with all this is churches (meaning all religions) don't want gays married at all. And gays want to be allowed to be married anywhere. The solution is pretty simple. Let each "center" who is legally allowed to perform marriage choose who they marry and the states/governments respect that.
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No, gays can not force any church to marry them. No one can force any church to marry them. Churches are allowed to discriminate in any way they choose, there was even a church a couple of years ago that refused to marry a heterosexual couple because they were black. Churches refuse to marry couple where one or both have been divorced, or are of different religions, or even interracial couples.
Gays just want the right to get a legal civil marriage.
 
Jetboogieman said:
What proof do you offer that the proposed community center with a mosque inside it that's actually 2 blocks away from the site of 9/11 is what you claim it is.

I'll wait.
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The Islamist in charge was offered free property to build it elsewhere and refused.

You are now free to move about the cabin.
 
I said no because there simply are some religious beliefs that would insist on trampling on the rights of others or even doing actual harm to others. For instance, some religious beliefs rely on animal or even human sacrifices (rare in modern times, but still likely found somewhere in the world). Others hold strong beliefs about how to right wrongs or to please their god that involve killing "offenders", even without trial or any state involvement. Then there are those that aren't that extreme but still feel that it is part of their religious views to force others to comply to their beliefs otherwise they are failing God or whatever higher power they believe in and could face punishment as well. These beliefs cannot be tolerated however in a society that values the freedom of all, not just those who hold those mentioned beliefs. It becomes a conflict between whose rights/freedoms are more important and since we must go with what is most provable, most fair, allowing religious beliefs of any kind to prevail over other people's freedoms just because they are religious beliefs, even of a majority, means loss of freedom to others.

Very few who try to push their beliefs about same sex marriage being bad or wrong or even homosexuality being bad or wrong would want someone else's beliefs to have some power over their lives or their choices if they were not in the group that held that majority beliefs, especially not living in a country that claims to value the freedom and rights of all people, not just those of the majority religion.
 
JJB3333 said:
So ive done some thinking in the time since i last created a thread and this is one of the questions that has come up in my mind often. Now many of you will say yes and not bother to read this and others of you will say no and still not read this. So here is what i am going to do. im going to keep typing and hope someone bothers to read this.

So lets start off with an example. Personally im a supporter of gay/lesbian/bi rights, but consider how many religions exist out there that condemn homosexuality. And no this is not just rapping on Christianity. People groups in Islam,Judaism, im pretty sure Hinduism and Buddhism too, all put it down. And yet, if the gay rights activists are to be believed, then being gay/lesbian/bi is not a choice but a way of life chosen for them like being strait or homophobic is for the rest of us. Now, if all of those religions say put it down, and the government and the rest of the world is saying go screw your religion and let it happen, is religious freedom actually happening?

Again, i personally support gay rights, but i also believe in Christ as my savior. So if someone could clear it up for me without becoming a heated debate over why everyone hates me for bringing this up, it would be much obliged
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You need to read the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

Your religious freedom does not give you the right to tell consenting adults what to do and not do in their bedrooms.
 
JJB3333 said:
So ive done some thinking in the time since i last created a thread and this is one of the questions that has come up in my mind often. Now many of you will say yes and not bother to read this and others of you will say no and still not read this. So here is what i am going to do. im going to keep typing and hope someone bothers to read this.

So lets start off with an example. Personally im a supporter of gay/lesbian/bi rights, but consider how many religions exist out there that condemn homosexuality. And no this is not just rapping on Christianity. People groups in Islam,Judaism, im pretty sure Hinduism and Buddhism too, all put it down. And yet, if the gay rights activists are to be believed, then being gay/lesbian/bi is not a choice but a way of life chosen for them like being strait or homophobic is for the rest of us. Now, if all of those religions say put it down, and the government and the rest of the world is saying go screw your religion and let it happen, is religious freedom actually happening?

Again, i personally support gay rights, but i also believe in Christ as my savior. So if someone could clear it up for me without becoming a heated debate over why everyone hates me for bringing this up, it would be much obliged.
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Sadly I don't believe it is. I see this administration under Obama turning away from religion and capitalism to socialism and that scares the hell out of me.
 
Navy Pride said:
Sadly I don't believe it is. I see this administration under Obama turning away from religion and capitalism to socialism and that scares the hell out of me.
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Religion would be strengthened if people kept it to themselves and out of the government.
 
~~~ This post has been deleted. Sorta. Ignore it and continue on. Thanks.
 
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JJB3333 said:
So ive done some thinking in the time since i last created a thread and this is one of the questions that has come up in my mind often. Now many of you will say yes and not bother to read this and others of you will say no and still not read this. So here is what i am going to do. im going to keep typing and hope someone bothers to read this.

So lets start off with an example. Personally im a supporter of gay/lesbian/bi rights, but consider how many religions exist out there that condemn homosexuality. And no this is not just rapping on Christianity. People groups in Islam,Judaism, im pretty sure Hinduism and Buddhism too, all put it down. And yet, if the gay rights activists are to be believed, then being gay/lesbian/bi is not a choice but a way of life chosen for them like being strait or homophobic is for the rest of us. Now, if all of those religions say put it down, and the government and the rest of the world is saying go screw your religion and let it happen, is religious freedom actually happening?

Again, i personally support gay rights, but i also believe in Christ as my savior. So if someone could clear it up for me without becoming a heated debate over why everyone hates me for bringing this up, it would be much obliged.
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If you accept Christ as your savior than act Christ-like. Do not discriminate or oppress. Embrace those different from you with Love, Understanding, and Prayer. Rejecting this truth is the same as rejecting Christ.

It is unfortunate, but the majority of current world religions need to be destroyed. They divide, discriminate, and inspire hatred. Do you not see the sign for what they will bring about?

Being homophobic is not natural. It is an irrational fear. If you continue in your current mindset, you Will meet Lucifer at the Gates of Hell. Is thinking like a normal compassionate-loving-christ-like entity really so difficult? Go re-develop your empathy and reject the fear/hatred/cowardice instilled within you. Embrace mediation for now.
 
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WCH said:
That's what Muslims do at a site where they murdered 1000s of people. Build a victory mosque.
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um who among them murdered any one? who among them celebrates the 9 11 attacks?
 
WCH said:
The Islamist in charge was offered free property to build it elsewhere and refused.

You are now free to move about the cabin.
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and not accepting a bribe makes you a secret terrorist how?
 
JJB3333 said:
So ive done some thinking in the time since i last created a thread and this is one of the questions that has come up in my mind often. Now many of you will say yes and not bother to read this and others of you will say no and still not read this. So here is what i am going to do. im going to keep typing and hope someone bothers to read this.

So lets start off with an example. Personally im a supporter of gay/lesbian/bi rights, but consider how many religions exist out there that condemn homosexuality. And no this is not just rapping on Christianity. People groups in Islam,Judaism, im pretty sure Hinduism and Buddhism too, all put it down. And yet, if the gay rights activists are to be believed, then being gay/lesbian/bi is not a choice but a way of life chosen for them like being strait or homophobic is for the rest of us. Now, if all of those religions say put it down, and the government and the rest of the world is saying go screw your religion and let it happen, is religious freedom actually happening?

Again, i personally support gay rights, but i also believe in Christ as my savior. So if someone could clear it up for me without becoming a heated debate over why everyone hates me for bringing this up, it would be much obliged.
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Is far as I have read, there are a number of sexual aberrations that are genetically based. Some very anti social behavior seems to be genetic in origin. Recently I saw a rather robust behavioral study ranging over most populations including Africa, Asia America that seems to show that the amount of initial trust set in a person is negatively related to how dark his skin is. As the Proportions and degree of distrust measured was virtually the same in all groups, the conclusion would appear to be that most of us are born with a racist streak and genetically so oriented. This is not certain, but is is relatively sound. Does that mean, if it proves right, that we allow racism and murder?

I don't think so.
 
blarg said:
and not accepting a bribe makes you a secret terrorist how?
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No. their insistence on building on that spot does. I'm surprised they didn't insist on building it atop ground zero itself.
 
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