• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is religious freedom actually possible

Is religious freedom actually possible?

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 58.7%
  • No

    Votes: 12 26.1%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 5 10.9%
  • I didnt bother reading the post so yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I didn't bother reading the post so no

    Votes: 2 4.3%

  • Total voters
    46
So ive done some thinking in the time since i last created a thread and this is one of the questions that has come up in my mind often. Now many of you will say yes and not bother to read this and others of you will say no and still not read this. So here is what i am going to do. im going to keep typing and hope someone bothers to read this.

So lets start off with an example. Personally im a supporter of gay/lesbian/bi rights, but consider how many religions exist out there that condemn homosexuality. And no this is not just rapping on Christianity. People groups in Islam,Judaism, im pretty sure Hinduism and Buddhism too, all put it down. And yet, if the gay rights activists are to be believed, then being gay/lesbian/bi is not a choice but a way of life chosen for them like being strait or homophobic is for the rest of us. Now, if all of those religions say put it down, and the government and the rest of the world is saying go screw your religion and let it happen, is religious freedom actually happening?

Again, i personally support gay rights, but i also believe in Christ as my savior. So if someone could clear it up for me without becoming a heated debate over why everyone hates me for bringing this up, it would be much obliged.


I can't speak for Hinduism, but Theravada Buddhism has no problems with gays, equal rights for them etc. In fact there is a gay couple that attend one of the Wats the wife and I go. The idea is to teach everyone the four noble truths and to have each of us start on the 8 fold path to enlightenment. Being a man, a woman, a gay, has no bearing.
 
Why should religious freedom clash with civil rights for gays? The fact that gays can marry does not interfere with people's religious freedom. The problem might be that people want to push their religious views on the entire population and that has nothing to do with religious freedom but with religious dictatorship.

That applies for several issues that religious people feel very strongly about and that they not only want themselves to comply to but want everybody else in the country/world to comply with too.

And if Jesus wanted us to use government to get our way He would have done the same in His day. He would have preached that His followers should be pushing their demands on the Roman Empire. Jesus did the opposite; He was pacifistic in that regard. He actually submitted himself the their authority. He so respected their laws of crucifixion that He didn’t even bother to defend himself.
 
If we can prevent the Unthinking Left from destroying it...Yes.

Stupid propaganda argument that does nothing to contribute to the discussion. Sad.
 
And if Jesus wanted us to use government to get our way He would have done the same in His day. He would have preached that His followers should be pushing their demands on the Roman Empire. Jesus did the opposite; He was pacifistic in that regard. He actually submitted himself the their authority. He so respected their laws of crucifixion that He didn’t even bother to defend himself.

But we are not living in Roman times, we live in 2014 and religious freedom should not result in denying civil rights of other people in that society.
 
And if Jesus wanted us to use government to get our way He would have done the same in His day. He would have preached that His followers should be pushing their demands on the Roman Empire. Jesus did the opposite; He was pacifistic in that regard. He actually submitted himself the their authority. He so respected their laws of crucifixion that He didn’t even bother to defend himself.

That assumes that Jesus was actually real and that anything described in the Bible actually happened.
 
Stupid propaganda argument that does nothing to contribute to the discussion. Sad.

and this, an example of an intellectually titillating experience...:roll:
 
Balderdash, poppycock, rubbish and above all, phooey...

Exactly. Thereby religion should be removed ASAP so as to provide more space to the real enlightening experience of science.
 
Exactly. Thereby religion should be removed ASAP so as to provide more space to the real enlightening experience of science.

Well, now, that's just silly...

How and Why are two separate questions in their entirety...
 
Anarchy? Ballsy move, Goshin.


Nah. Anarchy doesn't work so well, or requires re-inventing government by other names.

But MYODB is pretty much how I live my life. I rarely stick my nose into others' business uninvited, if it isn't hurting me or someone I care about directly.

Guy up the road likes to smoke a little wacky weed on his back porch some weekends... do I approve? No. Haven't turned him in tho, nor gone out of my way to lecture him on the Evils of Marajeewanna. Not my problem, as long as it stays on his back porch.

I work with two lesbians. Do I approve of their lifestyle? Nope. Have I done or said anything about it? Nope. Not my business.


Now I'll help someone out in a heartbeat. Stuck? I gots 4WD and a tow-strap, yeah I'll come pull you outta the ditch. Out of kerosene with snow on the way? If I can spare it I'll loan you a few bucks, sure.

But mostly I say 'Its your chicken, you pluck it YOUR way."
 
Exactly. Thereby religion should be removed ASAP so as to provide more space to the real enlightening experience of science.




Lots of luck with that. Most of humanity begs to differ.
 
As many others have pointed out, it all depends on what is meant by "religious freedom."

Religious freedom should extend to theology, not morality. That an unjust act is being done in the name of religion does not magically make it just. For instance, Catholic theology should enjoy the full protection of the law, but what the Catholic church is trying to do to women's abilities to obtain affordable birth control should NOT receive ANY deference from the law.
 
So ive done some thinking in the time since i last created a thread and this is one of the questions that has come up in my mind often. Now many of you will say yes and not bother to read this and others of you will say no and still not read this. So here is what i am going to do. im going to keep typing and hope someone bothers to read this.

So lets start off with an example. Personally im a supporter of gay/lesbian/bi rights, but consider how many religions exist out there that condemn homosexuality. And no this is not just rapping on Christianity. People groups in Islam,Judaism, im pretty sure Hinduism and Buddhism too, all put it down. And yet, if the gay rights activists are to be believed, then being gay/lesbian/bi is not a choice but a way of life chosen for them like being strait or homophobic is for the rest of us. Now, if all of those religions say put it down, and the government and the rest of the world is saying go screw your religion and let it happen, is religious freedom actually happening?

Again, i personally support gay rights, but i also believe in Christ as my savior. So if someone could clear it up for me without becoming a heated debate over why everyone hates me for bringing this up, it would be much obliged.

Does this discussion need to be framed in the context of the US and the Constitution and therefore the possible infringements on others rights with certain religious beliefs?

That's the only relevant context for me. Anything else would be wholly hypothetical, rather than just (perhaps in the opinion of the OP) partially hypothetical.
 
Having read most of the thread now, I wonder at how someone in the US, as an individual, is prevented from completely enjoying religious freedom?

I can think of a few examples: certain hallucinogenics used in ceremonies are illegal. Polygamy is no longer legal. Certain business practices compel a business owner to serve people or provide services they object to on religious grounds.

Other examples include cutting off a thief's hand. Stoning an adulteress.

In an American context, all the examples that come quickly to mind can be resolved by being based on how they infringe on the freedoms of others. Drugs, polygamy...I have no objection to making legal. They are choices made by consenting adults.

Bodily harm to thieves and adulterers....cruel and unusual punishment. An unreasonable infringement on their ''freedom".

The one regarding businesses is less clear cut for me. I understand how some people can find some things objectionable in relation to their religion. For the most part, I believe that accepting a business license from the state legally binds a business owner to serve everyone. That they knowingly enter into that contract with the state and know they must uphold it and choose their business/business practices accordingly.
 
If your religious freedom is violated because I get married and that is against your religion, then that is your problem.
Do you feel that you are violating Muslims religious freedom because you eat pork?
Are you violating Hindus religious freedom by eating a cow?
Are you violating Jewish peoples religious freedom because you don't keep a kosher diet?
 
So ive done some thinking in the time since i last created a thread and this is one of the questions that has come up in my mind often. Now many of you will say yes and not bother to read this and others of you will say no and still not read this. So here is what i am going to do. im going to keep typing and hope someone bothers to read this.

So lets start off with an example. Personally im a supporter of gay/lesbian/bi rights, but consider how many religions exist out there that condemn homosexuality. And no this is not just rapping on Christianity. People groups in Islam,Judaism, im pretty sure Hinduism and Buddhism too, all put it down. And yet, if the gay rights activists are to be believed, then being gay/lesbian/bi is not a choice but a way of life chosen for them like being strait or homophobic is for the rest of us. Now, if all of those religions say put it down, and the government and the rest of the world is saying go screw your religion and let it happen, is religious freedom actually happening?

Again, i personally support gay rights, but i also believe in Christ as my savior. So if someone could clear it up for me without becoming a heated debate over why everyone hates me for bringing this up, it would be much obliged.

Freedom of Religion can be held up as easily as any other right. It's one restriction is the one restriction on all rights, you cannot infringe upon the rights of others in the exercise of your own. Seems pretty darn straight forward.
 
So ive done some thinking in the time since i last created a thread and this is one of the questions that has come up in my mind often. Now many of you will say yes and not bother to read this and others of you will say no and still not read this. So here is what i am going to do. im going to keep typing and hope someone bothers to read this.

So lets start off with an example. Personally im a supporter of gay/lesbian/bi rights, but consider how many religions exist out there that condemn homosexuality. And no this is not just rapping on Christianity. People groups in Islam,Judaism, im pretty sure Hinduism and Buddhism too, all put it down. And yet, if the gay rights activists are to be believed, then being gay/lesbian/bi is not a choice but a way of life chosen for them like being strait or homophobic is for the rest of us. Now, if all of those religions say put it down, and the government and the rest of the world is saying go screw your religion and let it happen, is religious freedom actually happening?

Again, i personally support gay rights, but i also believe in Christ as my savior. So if someone could clear it up for me without becoming a heated debate over why everyone hates me for bringing this up, it would be much obliged.

One's rights end where another person's begins. Depriving someone else of their rights is not a legitimate right. That is why we don't allow religions to do human sacrifices anymore. That should apply to the attempts of some religions to deny their employees access to health insurance birth control also.
 
How about we found the Everybody Mind Their Own Damn Business party? :)


Works for me. If you ain't doing it in my house or yard, or in my vehicle, or hurting me with it directly, or trying to shove it down my throat... I don't really much care.

I heard that Ben Franklin wanted "Mind your (own) Business" on our currency. I wish he got his way on that one. Mind Your Own Business
 
So ive done some thinking in the time since i last created a thread and this is one of the questions that has come up in my mind often. Now many of you will say yes and not bother to read this and others of you will say no and still not read this. So here is what i am going to do. im going to keep typing and hope someone bothers to read this.

So lets start off with an example. Personally im a supporter of gay/lesbian/bi rights, but consider how many religions exist out there that condemn homosexuality. And no this is not just rapping on Christianity. People groups in Islam,Judaism, im pretty sure Hinduism and Buddhism too, all put it down. And yet, if the gay rights activists are to be believed, then being gay/lesbian/bi is not a choice but a way of life chosen for them like being strait or homophobic is for the rest of us. Now, if all of those religions say put it down, and the government and the rest of the world is saying go screw your religion and let it happen, is religious freedom actually happening?

Again, i personally support gay rights, but i also believe in Christ as my savior. So if someone could clear it up for me without becoming a heated debate over why everyone hates me for bringing this up, it would be much obliged.

Obviously not, because those who believe homosexuality is a sin, cannot be allowed to maintain that belief. You really could have just answered your own question without help. All other beliefs become irrelevant because you have disallowed the belief against homosexuality, thus perfect religious freedom is impossible.

/thread
 
Obviously not, because those who believe homosexuality is a sin, cannot be allowed to maintain that belief. You really could have just answered your own question without help. All other beliefs become irrelevant because you have disallowed the belief against homosexuality, thus perfect religious freedom is impossible.

/thread

You can in fact maintain that belief. No one is going to force your mind different. You do not have to like homosexuality, you do not have to accept it, you can preach against it all you want. It's stupid and dishonest to claim otherwise.
 
One's rights end where another person's begins. Depriving someone else of their rights is not a legitimate right. That is why we don't allow religions to do human sacrifices anymore. That should apply to the attempts of some religions to deny their employees access to health insurance birth control also.

Health insurance is not a right nor is birth control. Comparing human sacrifice to not providing someone a service is idiotic.
 
I can't speak for Hinduism, but Theravada Buddhism has no problems with gays, equal rights for them etc. In fact there is a gay couple that attend one of the Wats the wife and I go. The idea is to teach everyone the four noble truths and to have each of us start on the 8 fold path to enlightenment. Being a man, a woman, a gay, has no bearing.

You beat me to it, my friend. I have never heard of a Buddhist tradition that does not accept gay people. Sexual orientation doesn't matter, and it shouldn't. It has nothing to do with Buddhism.
 
Last edited:
Nah. Anarchy doesn't work so well, or requires re-inventing government by other names.

But MYODB is pretty much how I live my life. I rarely stick my nose into others' business uninvited, if it isn't hurting me or someone I care about directly.

Guy up the road likes to smoke a little wacky weed on his back porch some weekends... do I approve? No. Haven't turned him in tho, nor gone out of my way to lecture him on the Evils of Marajeewanna. Not my problem, as long as it stays on his back porch.

I work with two lesbians. Do I approve of their lifestyle? Nope. Have I done or said anything about it? Nope. Not my business.


Now I'll help someone out in a heartbeat. Stuck? I gots 4WD and a tow-strap, yeah I'll come pull you outta the ditch. Out of kerosene with snow on the way? If I can spare it I'll loan you a few bucks, sure.

But mostly I say 'Its your chicken, you pluck it YOUR way."

Bingo! Same, same me. Many people are that way as well. It seems pretty simple to me. Why others can't live that way is a mystery.
 
Back
Top Bottom