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Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

Do You like this version of "America The Beautiful?"

  • Total voters
    104
Hatuey said:
Except...

Are People Who Speak More Than One Language Smarter?



Why learn a foreign language? Benefits of bilingualism - Telegraph



Speaking Two Languages Makes You Smarter



It



Check...mate?
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What a simplistic analysis. BEING bilingual versus learning another language are not the same at all. You don' grasp that distinction, do you? If a person grows up where multiple languages are spoken they interact with, that actually is just one language.

This may come as a shock to you, but in fact English is not only a bilingual language, but a multilingual language. Most languages are.

Where schools try to teach in both Spanish and English, those students do significantly worse in all testing categories.

http://www.hhh.umn.edu/centers/rwc/...ingualandESLonAcademicAchievement_Sep2012.pdf

"Checkmate."
 
Gathomas88 said:
Did I ever say that people shouldn't learn more than one language? :screwy

I speak a smattering of two or three myself.

You claimed that having a primary language for a nation resulted in "intellectual stagnation." Prove it, or concede the point.
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I just did. It has been shown that people who speak multiple languages are smarter. A nation of monolingual speakers? We'll end up like France, Spain and England. Dying populations of ignorant high school drop outs complaining that multilingual speakers overseas are taking our jobs. Wait... :shrug:
 
joko104 said:
What a simplistic analysis. BEING bilingual versus learning another language are not the same at all. You don' grasp that distinction, do you? If a person grows up where multiple languages are spoken they interact with, that actually is just one language.

This may come as a shock to you, that English is not only a bilingual language, but a multilingual language. Most languages are.
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SO let me see if I understand what you're saying

If you speak multiple languages that are not english, you're monolingual

But if you speak one language that is english, you're mutilingual.


How did I do?
 
joko104 said:
If a person grows up where multiple languages are spoken they interact with, that actually is just one language.
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Lol. That is all. I refuse to believe you're a real person and not a troll.
 
joko104 said:
What a simplistic analysis. BEING bilingual versus learning another language are not the same at all. You don' grasp that distinction, do you? If a person grows up where multiple languages are spoken they interact with, that actually is just one language.
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Lol wut.....
 
sangha said:
SO let me see if I understand what you're saying

If you speak multiple languages that are not english, you're monolingual

But if you speak one language that is english, you're mutilingual.


How did I do?
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You did just fine.

If I grow up with people speaking 3 languages, that is just 1 language to me. I grew up around English, Spanish and a Native American language. Those are all just 1 language to me.

Therefore, according to Hatuey I am probably smarter than most people on this forum.

Studies such as he presents are pointless because language isn't a singularity. Bilingual people are bilingual because they grow up around more than 1 language - not because they learned another language. In those settings, those 2 languages are effectively 1 language because essentially all people use both.

Their "proof" of being smarter doesn't really prove anything either. People around conflicts are likely to more develop better skills at dealing with conflicts. That doesn't mean they are smarter.

My point is rather simple. Obvious really. Would it be superior if you and I were unable to communicate with each other? Would that be "better?" Would we then both be smarter? Could we better live together in the same house? That is what he and some others are effectively claiming. The more people in a culture who can not communicate with each other the better.

And that is absurd.
 
Superfly said:
Lol wut.....
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I say we all thank Joko, he has brought unexpected laughter to this very serious conversation of people who want to be ignorant vs. those who think that people should speak whatever language they want without some guy in Idaho complaining.
 
joko104 said:
You did just fine.

If I grow up with people speaking 3 languages, that is just 1 language to me. I grew up around English, Spanish and a Native American language. Those are all just 1 language to me.

Therefore, according to Hatuey I am probably smarter than most people on this forum.

Studies such as he presents are pointless because language isn't a singularity. Bilingual people are bilingual because they grow up around more than 1 language - not because they learned another language. In those settings, those 2 languages are effectively 1 language because essentially all people use both.

Their "proof" of being smarter doesn't really prove anything either. People around conflicts are likely to more develop better skills at dealing with conflicts. That doesn't mean they are smarter.

My point is rather simple. Obvious really. Would it be superior if you and I were unable to communicate with each other? Would that be "better?" Would we then both be smarter? Could we better live together in the same house? That is what he and some others are effectively claiming. The more people in a culture who can not communicate with each other the better.

And that is absurd.
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False alarm, he's serious.
 
Hatuey said:
I say we all thank Joko, he has brought unexpected laughter to this very serious conversation of people who want to be ignorant vs. those who think that people should speak whatever language they want without some guy in Idaho complaining.
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Thanks for the lulz, Joko. This thread needed a little levity.
 
Hatuey said:
Lol. That is all. I refuse to believe you're a real person and not a troll.
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What I posted is obvious. If a person grows up where people use two languages that is one language to that person. Only blind desperate loyalty to slogans would prevent anyone from not understanding that.

English is a composite of many different languages. However, to me it is one language. In your analysis because English is many different languages then everyone who speaks English is multilingual.

That you want people to be isolated in ethnic groups by their language isolation is rank bigotry in my opinion. Your pretending to rage over ethnic divisions doesn't work unless those divisions are preserved.
 
Superfly said:
Thanks for the lulz, Joko. This thread needed a little levity.
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You can laugh at your simplistic slogans all you wish. Maybe the reason you don't understand is since I know multiple languages I am just too smart for you both to be able to understand. I'll try to make it simpler for you.
 
Hatuey said:
The problem with this is that the barriers are not ever along "What can they do?" lines and more "What are they like?" lines. Muslim countries have some of the best and brightest engineers in the world. What do they do when they get to America? Drive cabs. Africa also has a lot of engineers. What do they do in NYC? Work as waiters. The boundaries which have been set historically are not along the lines of work but along the lines of culture (to put in broad terms). Latin America has some great doctors. When they get to the US? They have to settle for being waiters/cleaning floors because our education system is unaffordable to most new immigrants. Europe? Well, they have a lot of kids with liberal art degrees and are useless for the most part. Yet we pose little no barriers to how they travel into the US. Europe does the same with most immigrants. If you're from a poor country you couldn't possibly be as well educated as somebody in Europe apparently. So they make the system unaffordable, they make the process tedious and unattractive to most people and then they say "These immigrants! They can't succeed! They don't want to assimilate"
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That's more to do with our regional quotas and the small number of European immigrants legally entering the country every year, compared to the vastly larger numbers arriving from India, China, and Latin America, in general.

In fact, Europe, in total, only accounts for about 10% of immigration into the US, while Mexicans represent over a third of our immigration population in it's entirety. And represent a larger number alone than the immigrant population of any other country.


It's interesting though. 150 years ago Italians, Irish, Chinese and Scottish immigrants were isolated. They couldn't work in their fields and had to look for menial labor. "Irish need not apply" was actually pretty popular for job advertisements. Today? Their descendents are arguing that the same tactics employed against their ancestors are valid when used against other immigrants.
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yeah and we had a traditional system of slavery in this country at one point, but appealing to tradition and ignoring the social-economic realities of the present isn't a very meaningful argument against a selective immigration process.

The reality is that every immigration wave in American history goes through an assimilation process. The first generation is always labelled as isolationist. They do not want to be part of America. Let's face it, with 150 year old immigration policies, I wouldn't either. I'd do as every group of immigrants has done. I'd go back to what I know, my community and let my kids be my passport into American society.
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You're equivocating without really showing how they are similar and ignoring the complaints here have rested on necessary skills and a willingness to try and adopt the English language
 
sangha said:
Obviously hilarious
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The level of which people become the most simpleton sheep when they go into the partisan slogans crap is amazing.

This is "ENGLISH"

smp_oldenglish.gif


You and others are taking a kindergarten view of language and communication is the most simplistic loyalty to what? Like Hatuey you need Latinos to be a separated from others so you can declare you are fighting against their oppression, while often making your hatred of Latinos known in other ways?
 
sangha said:
Ahh, I see now. You weren't referring to americans. You were talking about white people.

Very revealing
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And? We are the single largest non-Hispanic population group.

slide_02_pies.jpg

No other group is expected to hold the kind of dominant minority status that the Hispanic block will see in coming decades.

Are you familiar with the concept that latino children can be americans?
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Are you familiar with the manner in which they have so far failed to assimilate, and will only become more likely to do so as their proportion of the overall population increases?

No, I'm wisely noting that Lebanon does not have an immigration problem.
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It experienced demographic shift, which resulted in ethnic tensions and ultimately civil war which left the country in the hands of radical Muslim extremists.

Incidentally, a large part of the reason for this demographic shift did center around Palestinian refugees fleeing into Lebanon from Israel.

Hatuey said:
I just did. It has been shown that people who speak multiple languages are smarter. A nation of monolingual speakers? We'll end up like France, Spain and England. Dying populations of ignorant high school drop outs complaining that multilingual speakers overseas are taking our jobs. Wait... :shrug:
Click to expand...

:roll: Correlation does not equal causation.

Smarter people learn second languages precisely because they are smarter in the first place. Not everyone can do that.

You have not provided any evidence whatsoever to suggest that nations which speak more than one language are any more stable or productive than those which have a set primary language.
 
joko104 said:
The level of which people become the most simpleton sheep when they go into the partisan slogans crap is amazing.
Click to expand...

All sorts of people find all sorts of things amazing

For example, young children think a set of jangling keys is amazing
 
Grant said:
Why not send a letter too the editor of the NYTimes asking them what they mean by this? They used the term, not me. Or are you being deliberately thick here?
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I'm asking you what "white Hispanic" means to you. I've already explained that it seems pretty self-explanatory to me. I think most people would understand what it means. I think its quite a stretch that somehow "white Hispanic" can be equated with "Caucasian" which is what Rocketman was claiming when you chimed in. So....since it doesn't appear self explanatory to you, I'm wondering what does it mean to you. Do you agree with Rocketman that it means "Caucasian"?
 
Gathomas88 said:
And? We are the single largest non-Hispanic population group.
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And?

And it's dishonest to claim that your concern is about immigration when your true concern is about white people remaining the majority

Are you familiar with the manner in which they have so far failed to assimilate, and will only become more likely to do so as their proportion of the overall population increases?
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No, I am not familiar with things that are not true.


:roll: Correlation does not equal causation.
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Says the guy who uses correlation to make arguments about STD rates, single motherhood, the effects of declining population, the benefits of marrying in your 20's, and even Lebanon!! :lamo

Stop being so hypocritical.
 
Zippy Pinheads are bizarre in their collectivism for some new and cool. The great liberal movement for decades was to promote a universal world language to eliminate the language barriers between people with the view to best way to avoid conflict and to accomplish the most was if all people could communicate with each other.

BUT because do-anything-for-a-vote NOW "liberals" demand that people be unable to communicate with each other, figuring to get the Latino vote this way.

To argue against all people being able to communication with each other is outright radical bigotry and nothing else.
 
sangha said:
Nonsense. Latinos are assimilating just fine.
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actually the last time I researched the topic the current wave of Mexican immigrants, given their lower skill and education level are actually taking longer to assimilate and are experiencing more long term economic hardships because of it
 
sangha said:
All sorts of people find all sorts of things amazing

For example, young children think a set of jangling keys is amazing
Click to expand...


Exactly. That's what slogans are. Simpleton thinking.
 
joko104 said:
Zippy Pinheads are bizarre in their collectivism for some new and cool. The great liberal movement for decades was to promote a universal world language to eliminate the language barriers between people with the view to best way to avoid conflict and to accomplish the most was if all people could communicate with each other.

BUT because do-anything-for-a-vote NOW "liberals" demand that people be unable to communicate with each other, figuring to get the Latino vote this way.

To argue against all people being able to communication with each other is outright radical bigotry and nothing else.
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True, and if you continue to speak english, I'm going to call the foreign language police
 
Hatuey said:
FFs never really cared for one or they would have established it in the constitution. They spoke more than one language unlike the peasants who call themselves "patriots" today. Adams spoke Latin, Jefferson could understand/speak at least 6, Madison about 2. The original faith weather citizens of this country usually spoke more than one language. I for one favor a multilingual US. A single language ensures intellectual stagnation. Just look at France. How many languages do you speak Ms. Cris?
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lol, for some reason I doubt an appeal to the founding fathers and how they lived in a country vastly different than present america would fly on any other subject with you
 
joko104 said:
Zippy Pinheads are bizarre in their collectivism for some new and cool. The great liberal movement for decades was to promote a universal world language to eliminate the language barriers between people with the view to best way to avoid conflict and to accomplish the most was if all people could communicate with each other.

BUT because do-anything-for-a-vote NOW "liberals" demand that people be unable to communicate with each other, figuring to get the Latino vote this way.

To argue against all people being able to communication with each other is outright radical bigotry and nothing else.
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Many of us have already given several examples of how not being able to communicate with one another can have detrimental effects, especially regarding jobs like the construction industry. Not only is it dangerous for the non-English speaker but for all those who have to work around/with him/her. Not being able to read and write in English, living in America, is a sure-fire way to end up in abject poverty. Once you are there it's not so easy to escape. It's just in everyone's best interest and it isn't an outrageous request like some are making it out to be. There are way too many brainwashed politically correct ******s in this country IMO. :lol:
 
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