Should Amanda Knox Be Extradited to Prison in Italy?

Cardinal said:

Don't think you know me. I added half-and-half to my coffee this morning that was two days after the expiration date. I'm a crazy mother****er, man.

Click to expand...

Ben K. said:

There are plenty of gullible people being fed a dishonest narrative by the Daily Mail and the tabloids over in the UK and Italy as exemplified by yourself. You rely on your feelies and little else. You're content to see the actual murder go free this year just so the American broad can get arrested. There is no reason for Knox to have any faith in the Italian justice system. Solletico was stupid to have such faith.

Click to expand...

Chatter said:

The trouble with Ben K is that he is quick to pour scorn on other peoples sources without offering one credible source himself, having looked at his evidence I presume he has been looking at Pro-Knox rubbish such as Injustice in Perugia the polar opposite to True Justice For Meredith Kercher, which I have never used. Whilst in terms of the Murder of Meredith Kercher website which is at least well cited which I have not really used but is far better cited than anything Ben has produced and yet he scoffs at it. :roll:

The Murder of Meredith Kercher

I have produced numerous sources as usual for most of the things I have posted, and as usual Ben K does nothing but criticise based on evidence with no real source what so ever. So come on Ben lets see some credible sources rather than just dismissing others off the top of your own head with no credible evidence. :shock:

Click to expand...

Ben K. said:

The problem is that even with your best cites nothing you have provided comes close to demonstrating guilt beyond any reasonable doubt. I'll bring the sources once you hit that metric. All thou have is a trust in the Italian legal system, who lets guys like Berkesconi off the hook and tolerates the mafia being mainstream.

Click to expand...

The Guardian said:

Few crimes in recent years have captured the imagination quite so much as the murder in Perugia of Meredith Kercher. The beauty and kindness of the victim, the fresh faces of her alleged assassins, and their passion for sex and drugs, all set against the backdrop of one of Italy's most stunning cities, made this a story that was as captivating as it was tragic. Now that both Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito have been acquitted of Kercher's murder, the story becomes in some ways even more fascinating, as no one knows quite what to believe any more. Many people remain convinced that the two are guilty.

John Follain is the Rome correspondent for the Sunday Times and has been following the case since it began. His book is a neutral retelling of events, from the British student's murder on the night of 1 November 2007 to that acquittal a few weeks ago on 3 October. Death in Perugia is not a first-person narrative, nor one that expresses an authorial opinion on the guilt or otherwise of those on trial. Perhaps because of this objectivity, it's a gripping read: a balanced, detailed account that allows the reader to respond to the central question: did they or didn't they?

It was immediately clear to detectives who attended the crime scene that a burglary had been faked. Windows had been smashed, but they were too high for a burglar and the broken glass was on top of, rather than underneath, the flat's ransacked contents. No burglar, detectives thought, would have locked Kercher's room. The flat's front door hadn't been forced. It looked as if someone on the inside had been involved in the murder, or had at least let in the murderer.

Attention turned to Kercher's American flatmate for many reasons: Amanda Knox had a scratch on her neck, and her behaviour as detectives watched her was bizarre in the extreme – constantly kissing and laughing with her Italian boyfriend, doing yoga in the police station, and snapping at one of Kercher's friends, who had expressed the hope that Meredith didn't suffer, with the retort: "She f*cking bled to death." (which she should not have known sat the time)

As investigators looked more closely at Knox, she emerged as a narcissistic attention-seeker who was sexually adventurous but also jealous of Meredith Kercher's cheerful contentment. Knox knew, it seemed, no boundaries, leaving a vibrator in a transparent washbag and enjoying one-night stands. Detectives thought she was both sly and naive.

These character traits, however, were as nothing compared with the contradictions she got caught up in. At first she said she was there that fateful night; then that she wasn't. Pages of her diary were ripped out. Her phone, always on, had been switched off early that evening. She had used drugs. Most incredible of all, Knox claimed to have entered the flat the following morning, having found the front door open and blood in the bathroom, and rather than running outside and calling the police had gone straight ahead and had a shower without a second thought.

Her DNA was found on the handle of a knife that also had Kercher's DNA on its blade. That knife came from the kitchen of Knox's boyfriend, Sollecito. He, it emerged, was a habitual drug-user who liked knives and hardcore porn. His DNA was found on Kercher's bra clasp. He had lied about when he had used his computer, about the time of certain phone calls, and also about the time he'd eaten dinner.

A third man emerged as a suspect. Rudy Guede alleged that he had merely been making out with Meredith and was in the bathroom when he heard her screams from the other room. He tried, he said, to save her. Prosecutors didn't believe his story, especially when DNA evidence indicated a sexual encounter with Kercher – with, detectives thought, Knox and Sollecito involved as coercers. Various eyewitnesses came forward to place Guede, Knox and Sollecito at the scene of the crime, and the fact that the young lovers had bought bleach the following morning suggested they were trying to cover their tracks.

The evidence appeared overwhelming and all three were convicted. But earlier this month, Sollecito and Knox were acquitted. The lead prosecutor, Giuliano Mignini, had told the jury "you can't make a black boy pay for everyone", but that is how it now stands: only Guede, raised in Perugia, born in Ivory Coast, remains in prison. Doubts had been raised about the DNA evidence: the bra clasp had been found 46 days after the initial police search and contamination seemed a possibility. Witnesses were shown to be confused. Knox stopped laughing and clowning around in court. The prosecutor himself was described as a sex-obsessed conspiracy theorist. Now, as the prosecution appeal to overturn the acquittal, there will probably be another trial.

We will, of course, never really know what happened. Many remain convinced of Knox's guilt. "To my family," Meredith Kercher's father once said, "she is, unequivocally, culpable." One investigator said: "she's certainly not the first convict who claims she's innocent... My guess is that Amanda has convinced herself that she is." A prosecuting lawyer called her "a sorceress of deceit". Patrick Lumumba, the Congolese barman whom Knox falsely accused of the murder, said she was "the world's best actress".

Death in Perugia: The Definitive Account of the Meredith Kercher Case by John Follain

Click to expand...

There was DNA evidence in that house linking Knox to the knife and scene and none of it was ever judged to have been cross contaminated by the Italian Courts. It was also shown by forensic experts that there were numerous people involved in the murder rather than just one individual.

It's not right to say there is

The Murder of Meredith Kercher

The Evidence - The Murder of Meredith Kercher

Knox initially confessed that she was in the house on the night of the murder and that she heard Miss Kercher scream, identifying a Congolese bar owner, Patrick Lumumba, as the assailant. She told the court during the trial that the confession was made under duress but then repeated the entire account in a five page memorandum the next morning. She later claimed Italian Authorities beat her, something which was strongly denied by everyone involved in the inquiry.

Lumumba was promptly arrested and spent two weeks in jail and Knox seemed quite happy for him to remain jail . It was only by chance that a Swiss businessman read about the case and came forward to say he had been talking to Lumumba in his bar on the night of the murder — offering him a rock-solid alibi. Lumumba has also always claimed Knox was the one behind the murder that night.

Knox then changed her story saying she was far away from the scene with her boyfriend at his place that night and that they watch the film Amelie on his lap top.

Sollecito could not back up Knox’s alibi on the night of the murder. Whilst she claimed she spent the evening with him, smoking marijuana, watching the French film Amelie and making love. Sollecito told police he could not remember if Knox was with him that evening or not.

Even assuming his memory was hazy because of the drugs, it seemed odd that a young man who had just embarked on a new relationship could not recall whether he had spent the night with his girlfriend or not.

Sollecito claimed he used his computer to download and watch cartoons and Amelie. But computer experts told the court that there was no activity on his laptop between 9.10pm on Nov 1, and 5.32am the next morning — the time frame in which the murder took place.

Knox and Sollecito turned off their mobile phones on the night of the murder, from around 8.40pm, and turned them back on at around 6am, inviting further suspicion.

A bedroom belonging to one of Miss Kercher’s Italian flatmates was ransacked on the night of the murder, with a window smashed with a rock. But police said the break-in was staged - broken glass from the window was found on top of clothes scattered on the floor, suggesting the window was broken after the contents of the room were messed up. Prosecutors accused Knox and her boyfriend of staging the break-in to make the killing look like a burglary that had turned into rape and murder.

Knox claimed that she slept in late the next morning but this was contradicted by a local shop keeper who clearly saw her very early next morning following Meredith's murder, when she came in to his shop allegedly to buy cleaning products such as bleach.

Why Amanda Knox's story just doesn't wash - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

Evidence against Amanda Knox makes conviction seem likely

Shopkeeper Says He Saw Knox After Murder - ABC News

Then there is the The 3am call to her mother which she denied making, her table lamp locked in the murder room, the different accounts of the locked door, the witness who saw her and her boyfriend overlooking the cottage on the murder night and numerous other such evidence such as the fact Amanda Knox made two statements to Meredith's friends that the police found suspicious because they contained details that Amanda Knox should not have known. Indeed Meredith's roommate Natalie Hayward and other friends of Meredith's in Perugia at the time such as Amy Frost and Robyn Carmel Butterworth have always claimed they believe Knox to be the murderer.

Amanda Knox Knew Details of the Crime She Shouldn't Have Known - The Murder of Meredith Kercher

Local News | Roommate testifies in Amanda Knox murder trial | Seattle Times Newspaper

Why I believe Knox killed my friend

Fellow student

Whilst Rudy Guede was sentenced to 30 years in prison for his part in the murder, but has had his sentence cut to 16 years and who is eligible for parole later this year has always maintained that it was Knox who was in fact the murderer, and it will be interesting to hear his views once he is released and has nothing to lose.

There are people in US Prisons serving life for murder on far less evidence than Knox and Knox has proved her self to be nothing more than a blatant liar in the past, even accusing a man she knew to be innocent. So cold is Knox, that I honestly think she would have quite happily have seen Patrick Lumumba serve a life sentence for something she knew he hadn't done, and her behaviour throughout the case has been extremely questionable.

I am also not the only one to believe there is significant evidence, Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard University School of Law also thinks there is significant evidence, as does fellow US Law Professor Julian Ku, and both agree that Knox should be extradited.



There is also a new motive for the crime been uncovered which further implicates Amanda Knox, with the Italian Courts to due to release this information shortly.

'Evidence of a motive' for the crime behind Amanda Knox verdict - Europe - World - The Independent

Finally the people I feel sorry for in all of this are the forgotten victims, Meredith and her family who have lost a much loved daughter and sister, and who have sat through the trial and having listened to the evidence fully support Knox's extradition.

Amanda Knox Weeps And Vows To 'Fight Till End'

Click to expand...

The Guardian said:

Few crimes in recent years have captured the imagination quite so much as the murder in Perugia of Meredith Kercher. The beauty and kindness of the victim, the fresh faces of her alleged assassins, and their passion for sex and drugs, all set against the backdrop of one of Italy's most stunning cities, made this a story that was as captivating as it was tragic. Now that both Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito have been acquitted of Kercher's murder, the story becomes in some ways even more fascinating, as no one knows quite what to believe any more. Many people remain convinced that the two are guilty.

John Follain is the Rome correspondent for the Sunday Times and has been following the case since it began. His book is a neutral retelling of events, from the British student's murder on the night of 1 November 2007 to that acquittal a few weeks ago on 3 October. Death in Perugia is not a first-person narrative, nor one that expresses an authorial opinion on the guilt or otherwise of those on trial. Perhaps because of this objectivity, it's a gripping read: a balanced, detailed account that allows the reader to respond to the central question: did they or didn't they?

It was immediately clear to detectives who attended the crime scene that a burglary had been faked. Windows had been smashed, but they were too high for a burglar and the broken glass was on top of, rather than underneath, the flat's ransacked contents. No burglar, detectives thought, would have locked Kercher's room. The flat's front door hadn't been forced. It looked as if someone on the inside had been involved in the murder, or had at least let in the murderer.

Attention turned to Kercher's American flatmate for many reasons: Amanda Knox had a scratch on her neck, and her behaviour as detectives watched her was bizarre in the extreme – constantly kissing and laughing with her Italian boyfriend, doing yoga in the police station, and snapping at one of Kercher's friends, who had expressed the hope that Meredith didn't suffer, with the retort: "She f*cking bled to death." (which she should not have known sat the time)

As investigators looked more closely at Knox, she emerged as a narcissistic attention-seeker who was sexually adventurous but also jealous of Meredith Kercher's cheerful contentment. Knox knew, it seemed, no boundaries, leaving a vibrator in a transparent washbag and enjoying one-night stands. Detectives thought she was both sly and naive.

These character traits, however, were as nothing compared with the contradictions she got caught up in. At first she said she was there that fateful night; then that she wasn't. Pages of her diary were ripped out. Her phone, always on, had been switched off early that evening. She had used drugs. Most incredible of all, Knox claimed to have entered the flat the following morning, having found the front door open and blood in the bathroom, and rather than running outside and calling the police had gone straight ahead and had a shower without a second thought.

Her DNA was found on the handle of a knife that also had Kercher's DNA on its blade. That knife came from the kitchen of Knox's boyfriend, Sollecito. He, it emerged, was a habitual drug-user who liked knives and hardcore porn. His DNA was found on Kercher's bra clasp. He had lied about when he had used his computer, about the time of certain phone calls, and also about the time he'd eaten dinner.

A third man emerged as a suspect. Rudy Guede alleged that he had merely been making out with Meredith and was in the bathroom when he heard her screams from the other room. He tried, he said, to save her. Prosecutors didn't believe his story, especially when DNA evidence indicated a sexual encounter with Kercher – with, detectives thought, Knox and Sollecito involved as coercers. Various eyewitnesses came forward to place Guede, Knox and Sollecito at the scene of the crime, and the fact that the young lovers had bought bleach the following morning suggested they were trying to cover their tracks.

The evidence appeared overwhelming and all three were convicted. But earlier this month, Sollecito and Knox were acquitted. The lead prosecutor, Giuliano Mignini, had told the jury "you can't make a black boy pay for everyone", but that is how it now stands: only Guede, raised in Perugia, born in Ivory Coast, remains in prison. Doubts had been raised about the DNA evidence: the bra clasp had been found 46 days after the initial police search and contamination seemed a possibility. Witnesses were shown to be confused. Knox stopped laughing and clowning around in court. The prosecutor himself was described as a sex-obsessed conspiracy theorist. Now, as the prosecution appeal to overturn the acquittal, there will probably be another trial.

We will, of course, never really know what happened. Many remain convinced of Knox's guilt. "To my family," Meredith Kercher's father once said, "she is, unequivocally, culpable." One investigator said: "she's certainly not the first convict who claims she's innocent... My guess is that Amanda has convinced herself that she is." A prosecuting lawyer called her "a sorceress of deceit". Patrick Lumumba, the Congolese barman whom Knox falsely accused of the murder, said she was "the world's best actress".

Death in Perugia: The Definitive Account of the Meredith Kercher Case by John Follain

Click to expand...

Ad_Captandum said:

We've all heard the story; I'm sure I don't need to fill you in.

American student Amanda Knox has, after appeal, been convicted of the murder of a British student in Italy along with her Italian boyfriend.

Amanda Knox has been with her family in Seattle during the trial, but now Italy is going to make an extradition request and put Knox in prison for the murder.

What are your thoughts on the subject?

Click to expand...

Chatter said:

John Follain is the Rome correspondent for the Sunday Times for instance and has sat through the entire Kercher Trial and who has interviewed all sides including Knox, Sollecito, and major witnesses

Click to expand...

Manc Skipper said:

Nobody wants to burn anyone, they'd simply like a convicted murderer returned to serve her sentence

Click to expand...

Manc Skipper said:

Nobody wants to burn anyone, they'd simply like a convicted murderer returned to serve her sentence

Click to expand...

Wiggen said:

Double jeopardy is OK to our left wing European 'friends' as long as the victim is American. It's how they roll.

Click to expand...

Wiggen said:

Nothing silly about stating the truth. Their hatred of America and Americans is so widespread and deep, they are willing to obsess about the Knox case to the extent that they're willing to ignore things like double jeopardy and a judicial system that is considered a joke even in Europe in order to gain a petty little triumph.

Click to expand...

NoC_T said:

Dude, that's not merely stretching the truth. It's snapping it over your knee and tossing it out the window.

Don't we all have enough enemies at home without looking beyond our shores to invent some?

Click to expand...

opendebate said:

Some more then others

Click to expand...

NoC_T said:

I'm sorry, you'll have to clarify.

'Than' others, btw.

Click to expand...

NoC_T said:

Concessions under duress in absentia of appropriate legal counsel.

How convincing. Witch! Burn her!

Click to expand...

Asking for a life sentence with nine months' isolation, Mignini said "La Knox" wanted a sex "game" and used her feminine wiles to manipulate two besotted young men

Click to expand...

"Probably she would have insulted Meredith," Mignini said, reconstructing the event with representatives of the U.S. embassy seated silently a few feet behind the defense table. "And she probably said, 'You are always behaving like a little saint. Now we will show you, and now we will make you have sex!'"

Click to expand...

Elaborating the saint-sinner theme later, an Italian civil lawyer arguing for millions in damages against the American called Knox a "Luciferina ... dirty in her soul," who is "beautiful in her looks but also sly and intelligent.

Click to expand...

opendebate said:

correction duly noted and thank you

Click to expand...

Cardinal said:

The witch trial comparison is particularly apt considering the words used by the prosecutor.

WTF?

Without knowing the setting and just hearing all of that, you'd think you were listening to run of the mill chatter during a Salem witch trial than a modern court.

Amanda Knox Murder Trial: Verdict by Friday? - TIME

Click to expand...

NoC_T said:

I know. An absolute disgrace. Along with an engraved apology and pecuniary restitution awarded to Miss Knox, I'd further move for signor Mignini's disbarment.

A total joke.

Click to expand...

Cardinal said:

My personal fascination with the Knox story stems from how much it backs up the author's experiences with Italy's legal system in the The Monster of Florence. "Medieval" as a description is more spot-on than you can know.

Click to expand...