Do you support school choice?

Hard Truth said:

1. I would desegregate schools by changing school district boundaries so that they do not divide along racial/ethnic/income lines. That is what is done when political district boundaries are done properly without gerrymandering. For example, the west side of a city could be combined with the suburbs on the west to create a racially diverse school district without needing long distance busing. I would also end the practice of funding schools with local property taxes and replace it with state-wide funding so that the funding is based on number of students and those student's needs instead of the local community's property values.

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I'm going to need something a little more than your say so on how the lines are made, with evidence that the lines are drawn to segregate races and income levels and not based upon population and distance from school. Between myself and my children, we've been in four separate school system is three different states (MD X2, GA and CT). While indeed that is a small sampling, the radical difference in the area cultures can be noted and in all of those school districts a large range of ethnic, racial and income diversity. This sounds a like like the fear mongering lines that conservatives are frequently accused of.

2. The Indianapolis Star had an article Sunday on what it described as increasing diversity in Indiana’s school-voucher program. The evidence: Of 301 schools accepting vouchers, eight are now non-religious, two are Jewish and three are Muslim. The rest are Christian.....
More on the money behind the Indiana school-voucher law | School Matters

96% of the schools receiving Indiana's vouchers are Christian schools.

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Oh really? 96% of the whole state of Indiana? Let's look a little further into that cited article shall we?

To be fair, the article’s focus was local, and last year, there was apparently only one voucher school in Marion County that was not a Christian school. Now there are four: an Islamic school, a Hebrew school that admits only Jewish students, a school for high-functioning children with autism and a school for highly gifted students.

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Local focus article. Somehow I doubt that the whole state of Indiana was being looked at. Let's do a little comparison:

The state of Maryland has 1475 public schools, 42 charter schools and 815 private schools. Last I checked Indiana was bigger than Maryland, so I am guessing that 301 schools accepting vouchers is not really very many and may not be all the ones in the state accepting vouchers. Just all the ones looked at by the article. Let's add to that, that the cited article in the blog you linked to was inaccessible unless I paid for it. So I certainly can't check this guy for accuracy or context manipulation. And just who is stevehinnefeld anyway and why should I believe him over even an actual reporter, yet alone actual researchers?

Finally look at that last line again. 4 new school open up after the voucher system starts (assuming that I am reading the blog correctly) and they meet specialized needs within the market. Wasn't that pretty much one of the things us proponents said would happen? I wonder how many other schools have opened in the year and a half since that blog was posted.

Oh yeah here's the other big question. WHY are there so few non-Christian schools accepting vouchers? Is it a pure lack of "supply"? Well the last line in the blog seems to indicate that more non-Christian schools are on the way. No indication of Christian promotion going on by the government here. Was it because most of the non-Christian schools elected not to accept the vouchers? If so, there is no problem here, and certainly no promotion. Is it because of certain criteria that the non-Christian schools didn't meet? Well with that it would all depend upon the criteria. With that there may or may not be. Another question I don't see noted. Are there any Christian schools that are not accepting the vouchers and why?

Hard Truth said:

How would they get to these schools outside of their district?

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The same way they would get to the private ones. This really isn't a hard concept. If the parent is willing to take them out of the local school (local meaning the one for where their home is) to go to a different school, then they are already looking at having to transport them. At that point, how much of a difference would it be to arrange that transport to a different pubic school than to a private school?

Hard Truth said:

Vouchers will result in an increase in even more economically, racially and religiously segregated schools than we have today, which is probably among the reasons a John Birch Society leader supports them.

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Forced segregation is wrong and immoral, but if segregation happens naturally because of the choice of all the people, then it is proper and...well right in one sense of the word anyway. For example's sake let's say we have town that has 300 students half white and half black. The students/parents have the ability to choose which school the individual students will attend. 100 black students choose school A, 100 white students choose school B, while the remainder choose school C. School D closes because no one chose it. Now liberals will tell us that schools A and B are wrong because they are segregated. But since no one forced them to go to those schools there is nothing wrong. I grant that this is a simplistic example, but it illustrated the point well. Again this sounds like a fear mongering line without a lot to back it up.

Hard Truth said:

Originally Posted by Hard Truth "It sounds like you would not be concerned if vouchers result in a return to schools segregated by religious and race."



Vouchers will result in an increase in even more economically, racially and religiously segregated schools than we have today, which is probably among the reasons a John Birch Society leader supports them.

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If it does it will be the parents choice and most likely a matter of convenience rather than intentional segregation. And the fact that you highlighted that fact and not the line immediately following it that addresse the issue of discrimination makes your post thoroughly intellectually dishonest. So you will understand that I prefer to discuss concepts with people who represent what I say honestly. I won't respond further so long as you use that kind of tactic. But I do wish you well.

SFCRED said:

Well then I guess we can equate teachers unions to that sleazy lawyer who opts to defend the slime of the earth. You're attempt to keep blame away from the unions is laughable. All unions should be thrown out and let teachers be held accountable for their performances. A piece of trash teacher can stay employed solely due to the fact that the unions make it next to impossible to get rid of a teacher. Unions are simply shields for the cry baby worthless individuals who use the system to collect a paycheck they think they are entitled to for simply showing up. It's pretty pathetic when you have only 1 out of every 1000 teachers being removed for job performance. Dude you're a union lemming and you should get that checked out by a doctor.

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Even if no lawyer wants to "defend the slime of the earth," a lawyer will be appointed for the "slime" by the courts. Our criminal system is based on the principal that no one is guilty until convicted and everyone deserves and needs professional representation to have a fair trial.

You are blaming unions for doing their job, which is to represent the interests of their members, instead of the administrators and school board members who are responsible for approving labor contracts, hiring teachers and supervising them. Do you ever go to school board meetings to complain about the quality of their work?

Why put the blame on the unions-they are not

He puts the blame on unions because he's poorly misinformed.

maquiscat said:

Local focus article. Somehow I doubt that the whole state of Indiana was being looked at. Let's do a little comparison:

The state of Maryland has 1475 public schools, 42 charter schools and 815 private schools. Last I checked Indiana was bigger than Maryland, so I am guessing that 301 schools accepting vouchers is not really very many and may not be all the ones in the state accepting vouchers. Just all the ones looked at by the article. Let's add to that, that the cited article in the blog you linked to was inaccessible unless I paid for it. So I certainly can't check this guy for accuracy or context manipulation. And just who is stevehinnefeld anyway and why should I believe him over even an actual reporter, yet alone actual researchers?

Finally look at that last line again. 4 new school open up after the voucher system starts (assuming that I am reading the blog correctly) and they meet specialized needs within the market. Wasn't that pretty much one of the things us proponents said would happen? I wonder how many other schools have opened in the year and a half since that blog was posted.

Oh yeah here's the other big question. WHY are there so few non-Christian schools accepting vouchers? Is it a pure lack of "supply"? Well the last line in the blog seems to indicate that more non-Christian schools are on the way. No indication of Christian promotion going on by the government here. Was it because most of the non-Christian schools elected not to accept the vouchers? If so, there is no problem here, and certainly no promotion. Is it because of certain criteria that the non-Christian schools didn't meet? Well with that it would all depend upon the criteria. With that there may or may not be. Another question I don't see noted. Are there any Christian schools that are not accepting the vouchers and why?



The same way they would get to the private ones. This really isn't a hard concept. If the parent is willing to take them out of the local school (local meaning the one for where their home is) to go to a different school, then they are already looking at having to transport them. At that point, how much of a difference would it be to arrange that transport to a different pubic school than to a private school?



Forced segregation is wrong and immoral, but if segregation happens naturally because of the choice of all the people, then it is proper and...well right in one sense of the word anyway. For example's sake let's say we have town that has 300 students half white and half black. The students/parents have the ability to choose which school the individual students will attend. 100 black students choose school A, 100 white students choose school B, while the remainder choose school C. School D closes because no one chose it. Now liberals will tell us that schools A and B are wrong because they are segregated. But since no one forced them to go to those schools there is nothing wrong. I grant that this is a simplistic example, but it illustrated the point well. Again this sounds like a fear mongering line without a lot to back it up.

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1. The point is that Christian schools and profiteers are the prime beneficiaries of the voucher scheme and that has always been the intention of those who fund the campaigns to advocate for vouchers. The implementation of the voucher programs may be done properly and without bias, but it will be the Christian schools and for-profit schools that will primarily benefit because they are the ones that are already established and prepared to take on students.

2. Many people in low income areas do not have the time or money to transport their kids longer distances to attend any school, that is why it is important that their local schools are of the highest possible quality. Vouchers will harm that effort by removing money from the public school systems.

3. Whether segregation happens "naturally" or accidentally isn't significant. If it is allowed to happen, the students will be harmed by attending segregated schools. Unlike public schools, there is no way for government or individuals (since private schools are allowed to discriminate parents can not do a lawsuit) to address discrimination and segregation by private schools. Fact: Supporting vouchers requires tolerating increased discrimination and segregation.

The Bottom line is that vouchers benefit the families that need the least help, and harm the families that need the most help by taking funding from public schools and giving it to private schools, most of which are operated by religious organizations and profiteers.

AlbqOwl said:

If it does it will be the parents choice and most likely a matter of convenience rather than intentional segregation. And the fact that you highlighted that fact and not the line immediately following it that addresse the issue of discrimination makes your post thoroughly intellectually dishonest. So you will understand that I prefer to discuss concepts with people who represent what I say honestly. I won't respond further so long as you use that kind of tactic. But I do wish you well.

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That segregation happens due to parents' choice or convenience isn't significant. If it is allowed to happen, the students will be harmed by attending segregated schools. Unlike public schools, there is no way for government or individuals to address discrimination and segregation by private schools because private schools are legally allowed to discriminate parents. I don't believe that the only way to improve public education is to allow discrimination and segregation. I do not want to my tax dollars going to religions and profiteers, especially since the public schools will be damaged, and possibly destroyed by the loss of funds.

Hard Truth said:

Even if no lawyer wants to "defend the slime of the earth," a lawyer will be appointed for the "slime" by the courts. Our criminal system is based on the principal that no one is guilty until convicted and everyone deserves and needs professional representation to have a fair trial.

You are blaming unions for doing their job, which is to represent the interests of their members, instead of the administrators and school board members who are responsible for approving labor contracts, hiring teachers and supervising them. Do you ever go to school board meetings to complain about the quality of their work?

Why put the blame on the unions-they are not

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whatever bro. i guess it is to be expected of an obvious union lemming. my kid just started K this year so I have yet to go to any of these meetings you refer to but I look forward to getting involved when the time comes. And I do blame the unions for doing their job. And any teacher that shores up and joins a union is just as much to blame. My whole point here is that unions should be abolished and reclaim our education system.

Hard Truth said:

That segregation happens due to parents' choice or convenience isn't significant. If it is allowed to happen, the students will be harmed by attending segregated schools. Unlike public schools, there is no way for government or individuals to address discrimination and segregation by private schools because private schools are legally allowed to discriminate parents. I don't believe that the only way to improve public education is to allow discrimination and segregation. I do not want to my tax dollars going to religions and profiteers, especially since the public schools will be damaged, and possibly destroyed by the loss of funds.

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Segregation is a problem ONLY when it is forced on people and not because of the choice parents make for their children. And I daresay forced bussing of kids to achieve some kind of greater 'racial balance' in the schools did far more damage to those kids and the education they received than any choice most parents make for their kids ever would. There is no problem with an all black school population unless an Asian or Hispanic or Native American or white kid was not allowed to go there. There is no problem with an all-Asian or all-white or all-Hispanic school unless they disallow children of other racial and/or ethnic groups to go there.

Go to any parochial or private school in mixed race neighborhoods though and you will see that there will almost always be a similar representation in the school population.

Only the most race conscious and/or progressive social meddler would think the government has to dictate how the school population looks or it will be wrong or bad or destructive. He who values liberty does not fear the choices that a free people will make when the federal government doesn't meddle, interfere, or interject itself into the process.

AlbqOwl said:

He who values liberty does not fear the choices that a free people will make when the federal government doesn't meddle, interfere, or interject itself into the process.

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Then don't use government money for funds if you want no strings attached.

SFCRED said:

whatever bro. i guess it is to be expected of an obvious union lemming. my kid just started K this year so I have yet to go to any of these meetings you refer to but I look forward to getting involved when the time comes. And I do blame the unions for doing their job. And any teacher that shores up and joins a union is just as much to blame. My whole point here is that unions should be abolished and reclaim our education system.

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And your point is well taken. Places like NC, SC, Texas and Georgia, where collective bargaining is banned, have superb public schools that can also compete on an international level for both math and science while powerful unions like in my state of MA have dismal results. We should all follow the other states' lead. MA must abolish all teacher collective bargaining rights effective immediately. We too can have test scores similar to your state:2razz:

rabbitcaebannog said:

Then don't use government money for funds if you want no strings attached.

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Bingo. The federal government should be collecting no taxes for education and should be funding nothing related to public education. It is only by returning control to the local communities, school board, teachers, and parents that we will restore public education to the shining status it once had. Glad to see that you're finally coming around on that.

AlbqOwl said:

Bingo. The federal government should be collecting no taxes for education and should be funding nothing related to public education. It is only by returning control to the local communities, school board, teachers, and parents that we will restore public education to the shining status it once had. Glad to see that you're finally coming around on that.

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Um, local money collected IS public funds.

rabbitcaebannog said:

Um, local money collected IS public funds.

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Maybe you need to look up the difference between the federal government and local government? Between the federal government dictating education to the entire country and education determined by the local community with the involvement of the tax payers, school board, teachers, and parents?

AlbqOwl said:

Maybe you need to look up the difference between the federal government and local government? Between the federal government dictating education to the entire country and education determined by the local community with the involvement of the tax payers, school board, teachers, and parents?

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I know the difference and I also know that public schools MUST follow federal mandates because they are 'public' while private and charter can pick and choose and many have no mandates. Unfunded mandates hurt public schools, and money being taken to fund non public schools further erode them.

AlbqOwl said:

Segregation is a problem ONLY when it is forced on people and not because of the choice parents make for their children....

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I disagree. Racial and religious discrimination is stupid and ignorant because it is based on prejudices and misinformation, it unfairly denies opportunities to those who will suffer from exclusion, and it harms all participants who are denied the opportunity to get to know and learn to interact with people who are different, an essential life skill in these times.

It appears my statement "It sounds like you would not be concerned if vouchers result in a return to schools segregated by religious and race" was correct.

Hard Truth said:

I disagree. Racial and religious discrimination is stupid and ignorant because it is based on prejudices and misinformation, it unfairly denies opportunities to those who will suffer from exclusion, and it harms all participants who are denied the opportunity to get to know and learn to interact with people who are different, an essential life skill in these times.

It appears my statement "It sounds like you would not be concerned if vouchers result in a return to schools segregated by religious and race" was correct.

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No it wasn't correct. But since you can't seem to distinguish how parents having the right to choose a school for their children is not the same thing as forced segregation and/or any other form of discrimination, we'll just move on here okay.

AlbqOwl said:

No it wasn't correct. But since you can't seem to distinguish how parents having the right to choose a school for their children is not the same thing as forced segregation and/or any other form of discrimination, we'll just move on here okay.

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They are not the same in many ways, but the result is the same: discrimination and segregated schools. It doesn't matter much to the kids locked out of the best funded schools whether it because of the law, their income, the fact that they aren't accessible with affordable transportation, or because a groups of parents don't want kids with their color or religion in their school. One difference is that it is insulting to know that people choose to discriminate against you.

AlbqOwl said:

All I know is that the USA is 4th in the world in per capita spending on public education and is waaaaaaaaay down on the list of the effectiveness of that education. And it is usually the most heavily funded public schools that are doing the worst. Washington DC is a prime example. If there isn't room in a private school, that many parents could not afford even with a voucher system, with school choice at least the lower income family could get a kid out of a failing school into a better public school. And again, the people running the failing school don't want to lose their jobs if all their kids start bailing out and leaving them. So that could be a really strong incentive for them to clean up their act, start doing a better job, and keeping the local kids home.

What good parent would not choose a good local school near home rather than going through the headache of transporting their kids to a distant school, if the kids could get just as good an education in the neighborhood school?

But the failing school has no incentive to get better if it receives its full funding and the administration and teachers get paid whether they educate the kids or not.

We need to stop rewarding failing schools with more and more funding, and we need to reward good ones and encourage failing schools to become good ones. A voucher system/school choice is the most reasonable way to accomplish that.

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The only way that's going to happen is if the private schools have the same admittance requirements as the public schools and that isn't going to happen because private schools want control of who comes in the door and who doesn't.

The "bad" schools are never going to get better unless they exclude the "bad" kids like private schools do --- or until such time as society realizes the "bad kids" are a social problem, not an educational problem. The opinions of people in this thread, including yourself, plainly show we have a loooong way to go before society comes to terms with that simple fact. All you're doing is trying to shove those problem further into the closet instead of addressing them.

maquiscat said:

They go to public schools that are better than what they would be districted to and the voucher pays for it. How you missed that one I cannot begin to guess.

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Your first assumption, that there will be plenty of openings in other districts, is false. Most districts do not have hundreds of openings. Maybe a few dozen - and those only temporary - but not hundreds. Our high schools got quite crowded before we built a new one. We're now close to where we should be with few openings for outside students.

Your second assumption, that vouchers will pay for schooling in the other districts, is also false. Not all districts in an area have the same tax base so having the money follow the student won't necessarily by sufficient to cover their cost of education in another district.


How you missed your false and unspoken assumptions I cannot begin to guess.

AlbqOwl said:

Further, why not let the parents decide where they want to place their children rather than the government dictating where the kids will go to school and giving the parents no say in that. The racial makeup of the school makes no difference if the kids are being well educated. Of course no school that accepts government money should be able to limit the population of the school to a specific race, but parents should be making the choice where their kids will go to school and not the government.

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Parents can put their kids in any school that will have them as long as they can afford it. Your system wouldn't change that one bit. It would just allow people to use public funds for religious education, a practice I find unacceptable.

mac said:

No, the voucher, if equal to the cost per student now paid to the public schools would provide more than the average private school tuition, lessening the need for fundraising.

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Millions of extra students will require billions more in funding, money that is not guaranteed to appear - and current funding isn't guaranteed to last for that matter. The bottom line is you don't know what private school costs are and have no clue what charities will remain in place once the flood gate opens.

mac said:

Besides, a private organization will make administration far more efficient.

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You've shown nothing to that effect. I fact, you've not shown in any way that private schools are more efficient than public schools without some basic change to the rules each must follow. If the rules for private schools are better then lets have public schools follow those same rules. Lets eliminate public school busing for starters, let the parents get their kids to school as best they can just like private schools do. That alone will make a huge dent in the cost of public education. Then we'll let public schools decide who can and can't come in their doors. If we make those two basic changes, which is where private schools get all their cost savings, then public schools would be some of the best schools in the country.

AlbqOwl said:

Bingo. The federal government should be collecting no taxes for education and should be funding nothing related to public education. It is only by returning control to the local communities, school board, teachers, and parents that we will restore public education to the shining status it once had. Glad to see that you're finally coming around on that.

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Any parent in my district that wants their child's fed money for private school can have all $240 of it. I don't care and neither would anyone else. :lol:


PS
However, I disagree about the fed using no money for education. Just like many other kinds of R&D the fed needs to do the basic educational R&D and they need to gather and publish unbiased statistics.

Hard Truth said:

1. The point is that Christian schools and profiteers are the prime beneficiaries of the voucher scheme and that has always been the intention of those who fund the campaigns to advocate for vouchers. The implementation of the voucher programs may be done properly and without bias, but it will be the Christian schools and for-profit schools that will primarily benefit because they are the ones that are already established and prepared to take on students.

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And yet we see in Indiana where other schools have come up in response to the voucher system that are not Christian. For-profit, I'm not so worried about as long as they gt the job done. After all the government use all kinds of for-profit businesses in pretty much every other area. Yes any fraud and such should be weeded out, but there isn't one system where that is not happening, inducing the current public school system. I guess maybe that you want instant results in an equal number of religious and non-religious schools or something, but no matter what we do the change will take time. Those other school will arise due to market demand and probably faster than you think

2. Many people in low income areas do not have the time or money to transport their kids longer distances to attend any school, that is why it is important that their local schools are of the highest possible quality. Vouchers will harm that effort by removing money from the public school systems.

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So we would be removing money from "poor" schools that aren't getting enough to begin with? Or maybe the system can be pulling that money from the schools that don't need it as much to either bus or improve the "poor" schools. I would think that a school when threaten with the loss of their money would be looking at ways to keep it. Throwing money at the system certainly isn't helping thing. So maybe it's time to do something different like send the money to where it can do more good and just be sucked down a black hole.

3. Whether segregation happens "naturally" or accidentally isn't significant. If it is allowed to happen, the students will be harmed by attending segregated schools. Unlike public schools, there is no way for government or individuals (since private schools are allowed to discriminate parents can not do a lawsuit) to address discrimination and segregation by private schools. Fact: Supporting vouchers requires tolerating increased discrimination and segregation.

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If the school accepts the voucher then they are automatically covered under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. The only cases where I could find where discrimination was allowed by law were in cases of private, sectarian or non, that accepted no state or federal money, such as one in Hawaii that would not accept any white students. Additionally, are you sure that there would be harm if any school were to be naturally segregated? I am not talking about the "natural segregation" such as occurred under Willis in Chicago, but honest to God done purely by the choice of the students/parents? I seem to recall a study that showed that a segregation of boys from girls resulted in higher academic results, so might not there be a similar result along race line? Is there any study that shows, outside of forced segregation, that harm will come to students of a segregated school? I am willing to bet that most issues that came from segregation, aside from freedom of choice issues, were more about proper funding and resources given to the "minority" schools.

The Bottom line is that vouchers benefit the families that need the least help, and harm the families that need the most help by taking funding from public schools and giving it to private schools, most of which are operated by religious organizations and profiteers.

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And yet it seems that we have both success and failure stories on the various voucher systems that have been enacted. Thus it really would depend upon implementation. I am not going to say that simply because a system is a voucher system that it is automatically a good system. Only that just because the system is a voucher system does not automatically make it a bad system.

Also, and maybe you've addressed this, but what are your thoughts towards a voucher system that stays purely within the public school system? Please note if there is any difference if the system includes magnet and/or charter schools.

SFCRED said:

whatever bro. i guess it is to be expected of an obvious union lemming. my kid just started K this year so I have yet to go to any of these meetings you refer to but I look forward to getting involved when the time comes. And I do blame the unions for doing their job. And any teacher that shores up and joins a union is just as much to blame. My whole point here is that unions should be abolished and reclaim our education system.

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I am going to partly disagree with you here. I have seen much good come out of local unions. It is the larger national and international unions that ruin the sectors that they "represent". Your example of the child molester teacher was a good one. The union had gotten the NY teacher (at least that is the one case I remember) who was convicted of child sexual molestation to to be retained upon the payroll of the school board. While he was not allowed to teach any more he still got paid. This was because of what was in the contract between the union and the school board. Additionally, many of the unions force you to pay their dues even if you don't, and more importantly don't want to, belong to their union.

rabbitcaebannog said:

Then don't use government money for funds if you want no strings attached.

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See above.

AlbqOwl said:

Bingo. The federal government should be collecting no taxes for education and should be funding nothing related to public education. It is only by returning control to the local communities, school board, teachers, and parents that we will restore public education to the shining status it once had. Glad to see that you're finally coming around on that.

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Hang on. Fair's fair and he said nothing about federal money. I will be one of the first to say that the Education Dept of the federal govt needs to go and that most power and decision making needs to be at the local level. That said I do see the need and place for public schools.

Hard Truth said:

I disagree. Racial and religious discrimination is stupid and ignorant because it is based on prejudices and misinformation, it unfairly denies opportunities to those who will suffer from exclusion, and it harms all participants who are denied the opportunity to get to know and learn to interact with people who are different, an essential life skill in these times.

It appears my statement "It sounds like you would not be concerned if vouchers result in a return to schools segregated by religious and race" was correct.

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I will disagree with the "unfairly" qualifier. If a person chooses to not belong somewhere because of the racial composition of the place then they are the ones who are harming themselves and as such they need to suffer the consequences of it. In this day and age, there would be very few schools that would allow segregation, especially along racial lines, but in general as well. Those that do will very quickly find themselves either serving niche markets or obsolete.

MoSurveyor said:

The only way that's going to happen is if the private schools have the same admittance requirements as the public schools and that isn't going to happen because private schools want control of who comes in the door and who doesn't.

The "bad" schools are never going to get better unless they exclude the "bad" kids like private schools do --- or until such time as society realizes the "bad kids" are a social problem, not an educational problem. The opinions of people in this thread, including yourself, plainly show we have a loooong way to go before society comes to terms with that simple fact. All you're doing is trying to shove those problem further into the closet instead of addressing them.

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Not necessarily. There are studies that show that some of the "bad" kids are not getting enough challenge and stimulation in public school. They act out because they are bored. When put into private, magnet, or charter schools, their performance improves greatly. There is indeed a portion of the school population (speaking as a country in general) that are suffering from an educational problem. Now if you get a kid that has to keep moving from school to school because they are always acting out, then you most likely have a social problem. But it seems that you would deny those with the education problem a change at a good education.

MoSurveyor said:

Your first assumption, that there will be plenty of openings in other districts, is false. Most districts do not have hundreds of openings. Maybe a few dozen - and those only temporary - but not hundreds. Our high schools got quite crowded before we built a new one. We're now close to where we should be with few openings for outside students.

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So what happens went a large number of families, each with 1-4 children, move into the school district? Are they turned away once those few dozen temporary openings fill up? You also seem to have a false and unspoken assumption that simple because Student A left School 1 for School 2 means that all students want to go to School 2. It can just as easily be that School 1 is a better fit for Student B, who is leaving School 2.

Your second assumption, that vouchers will pay for schooling in the other districts, is also false. Not all districts in an area have the same tax base so having the money follow the student won't necessarily by sufficient to cover their cost of education in another district.

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So wait, are you saying that the richer district schools are getting more money? Hmmm...could that possibly be part of the problem?

MoSurveyor said:

Millions of extra students will require billions more in funding, money that is not guaranteed to appear - and current funding isn't guaranteed to last for that matter. The bottom line is you don't know what private school costs are and have no clue what charities will remain in place once the flood gate opens.....

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I think it is inevitable that the price of private schools will increase with widespread availability of vouchers because it will increase demand and raise the amount many people will be willing to the pay (voucher value plus what they can afford compared to what they can afford only without vouchers).