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Is this Media Matters claim fact, or fiction?

Is the Media Matters story below fact or fiction?

  • Fact - Glenn Beck reported the woman's story as fact

    Votes: 7 58.3%

  • Fiction - The Media Matters assertion is false. Beck did not report the woman's claim as fact

    Votes: 5 41.7%
  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .
bubbabgone said:
Well, we know what Beck said when he included the disclaimer ... as long as you and MM included Greta, Sean, and Karl, can you please produce what each of them actually said?
Oh, and to avoid another 3 pages of peripheral comments, give us what they actually said and the context, not what MM said they said because, you know, MM does tend to edit the daylights outa what they produce.
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?
There is a link at the OP, scroll down to where it saga "transcripts"
 
mak2 said:
I am tired of saying it, why else would they air the story without checking it out if they did not intend to decieve? Back in the old days the RW understood was false witness and lying was. Obvioulsy not anymore.
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I'm tired of saying it... Because the story wasn't "ACORN Worker Kills Her Husband", it was "ACORN Worker Tells People She Killed Her Husband".

This wasn't a murder expose', it was an undercover video showing the kind of nut jobs that ACORN, a government sponsored community service organization, had working for them giving advice to the public. If you took the political blinders off for just one minute, you would see that her telling perfect strangers who came into her office a story like that, is so outrageous and inappropriate, that the video of her was a story whether what she said happened or not.

Everything you see is through the lens of your political beliefs, and until that changes, you'll never have a firm grasp on anything.
 
pbrauer said:
It wasn't just Beck, it was also Greta Van Susteren, Sean Hannity and Karl Rove. The video was NOT shown by their real news people.
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I believe the question he asked you was:

"Please provide your evidence that Beck did intend to mislead his audience."
 
bubbabgone said:
Well, we know what Beck said when he included the disclaimer ... as long as you and MM included Greta, Sean, and Karl, can you please produce what each of them actually said?
Oh, and to avoid another 3 pages of peripheral comments, give us what they actually said and the context, not what MM said they said because, you know, MM does tend to edit the daylights outa what they produce.
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I'll do you one better than that... He already posted what they said, and here was my response:

Grim17 said:
Here we go again... Another round of Pete refusing to see words that don't fit his agenda.



Hello boys and girls, and welcome basic English 101... Have a seat and open your books to Chapter 1.

pbrauer said:
Beck: "I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a jury. But gosh, even to me, it seems like this is a potential admission of murder." After airing video of Tresa Kaelke stating that she shot her ex-husband, Beck stated, "This is twisted, bizarre, macabre -- I mean, is this theater? I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a jury. But, gosh, even to me, it seems like this is a potential admission of murder. And the way she was describing doing some groundwork beforehand, you know, so everybody in town knew exactly what was going on, a case might be made for premeditated murder." Beck later added, "[W]e we haven't been even able to confirm from the state of California whether Tresa's husband from 10 years ago was killed, or if he's dead, or if she even had a husband. Did she make the story up? I don't know. Nobody's asking questions." [Glenn Beck, 9/15/09]
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Question 1: What does the word "admission" mean pertaining to the above paragraph?
A: It means that they are discussing what the person has claimed to have done, as opposed to discussing what the person actually did. It means that the action claimed is alleged, rather than established to have taken place.

Question 2: What does the phrase "we haven't been even able to confirm" mean?
A: It means that himself and the network didn't know whether the list of claims that followed, were true or false.

Question 3: What does "Did she make the story up? I don't know" in the above paragraph mean?
A: It means that he did not know whether the woman's many claims in the video were true, or merely fabrications on her part.

Question 4: What was determined in the above paragraph pertaining to the veracity of claims made by the woman on the video tape?
A: It was clearly stated that they had no information that either confirmed, or refuted the claims made by the woman, which is why no determination was made.





OK, let's move on to chapter 2:




Rove: ACORN must have "terrific ... human resources department to hire people like that." Karl Rove stated that Kaelke "admitted to -- or claimed to have killed her husband because she thought he was going to abuse her at some point. So, she's claimed that she shot him in the head. I mean, this is an organization that really must have a terrific human relations -- human resources department to hire people like that." [On the Record, 9/15/09]
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Question 1: When Mr. Rove said "people like that" who was he referring to?
A: As he stated, he was referring to the woman from the video who "claimed to have killed her husband" and "claimed that she shot him in the head".

Question 2: Did Mr. Rove indicate that her assertions were true?
A: No he didn't. Both times he commented on what the woman said, he referred to them as her claims, not her actions.

Question 3: What was determined in the above paragraph pertaining to the veracity of claims made by the woman on the video tape?
A: Nothing was determined. What the woman said was only referred to as her "claims", indicating that the veracity of those claims had not yet been determined.




Let's move on to the last chapter we're covering today... Turn to the first page in chapter 3 boys and girls, and lets examine that first paragraph.




Hannity: "he's on tape admitting that she plotted to kill and had her husband killed, but we don't know if it's true yet." Hannity asked Hannah Giles, the woman who posed as a prostitute, "Have you ever checked to see if in fact she had a husband who was killed?" Giles stated, "We're working on that." Hannity later stated, "So she's on tape admitting that she plotted to kill and had her husband killed, but we don't know if it's true yet." During a later segment, country music singer John Rich said, "[W]hat kind of screening process are they going through that they let a lady who admits to killing her husband standing right there?" [Hannity, 9/15/09]
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Question 1: What does the word "admitting" mean pertaining to the above paragraph?
A: It means "claimed to have done".

Question 2: What does the phrase "but we don't know if it's true yet" mean, and who is it referring to?
A: It's referring to the woman on the video tape and it means that both himself as well as the network, didn't know whether the claims she made on that tape were true or false. In other words, the veracity of her claims at that point, hadn't been determined

Question 3: Does the last sentence in the above paragraph indicate that the woman's claims are factual?
A: No they don't. She was never referred to as a killer or murderer, just as someone who claims to be.




OK boys and girls, it's final exam time... Put away your books.

Question 1: Did anyone who was quoted above refer to the woman in the video tape as a "Killer" or "murderer"?
A: No

Question 2: Did anyone who was quoted above, indicate that that the woman's claims were factual, and that she did in fact shoot her husband in the head, killing him?
A: No

Question 3: Does a claim of action, constitute proof of action?
A: No

Question 4: Do any of the quotes above, which were taken from shows that aired on Fox News, substantiate the claim made by Media Matters that "Fox News reports fake murder story from ACORN video as fact"?
A: Absolutely not.
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Grim17 said:
I believe the question he asked you was:

"Please provide your evidence that Beck did intend to mislead his audience."
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Read the transcripts, it's pretty clear.
 
pbrauer said:
Read the transcripts, it's pretty clear.
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I believe he wants you to tell him what you see specifically as evidence... In other words Pete, your thought, not what they said.
 
pbrauer said:
?
There is a link at the OP, scroll down to where it saga "transcripts"
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For one thing, I asked you not to cite MM but sobeit.
For another, the woman allegedly making up her story shouldn't have let anyone leave without telling them she was making it up.
For yet another thing, the reporting appears to have been accurate, no? She made those claims and they reported she made those claims.

Look ... if I were you I'd reconsider knee-jerk defenses of ACORN given their, um, ethical proclivities.
 
Half of the country is left wing. Words means things as Rush said. The RWers refer to themselves as dittoheads for a reason. The sneak thing is just another way the right rationalizes not being in complete control, that and freebies and other RW memes. In reality just over half of America disagrees with them. If libs are a minority why is in the Repubs are in charge of everything?
eohrnberger said:
I would disagree. A number of times it has been attempted to start left leaning talk radio, last experiment I recall was Air America, which collapsed due to lack of income.

The market isn't willing to pay for the privileged of listening to left wing ideas.

The left have to 'sneak' their agenda into legislation, which isn't read by legislators before voting on it, such as ObamaCare. Really, the liberal position on the political spectrum is a minority in the US.
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mak2 said:
Half of the country is left wing. Words means things as Rush said. The RWers refer to themselves as dittoheads for a reason. The sneak thing is just another way the right rationalizes not being in complete control, that and freebies and other RW memes. In reality just over half of America disagrees with them. If libs are a minority why is in the Repubs are in charge of everything?
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A bit dated, but still pertinent.
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Conservatives Continue to Outnumber Moderates in 2010

So the assertion that 1/2 of the country is left wing appears to be without a factual basis.
 
mak2 said:
Half of the country is left wing. Words means things as Rush said. The RWers refer to themselves as dittoheads for a reason. The sneak thing is just another way the right rationalizes not being in complete control, that and freebies and other RW memes. In reality just over half of America disagrees with them. If libs are a minority why is in the Repubs are in charge of everything?
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eohrnberger said:
A bit dated, but still pertinent.
Conservatives Continue to Outnumber Moderates in 2010

So the assertion that 1/2 of the country is left wing appears to be without a factual basis.
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Updated with more current polling results:
January 12, 2012
Conservatives Remain the Largest Ideological Group in U.S.
Overall, the nation has grown more polarized over the past decade
by Lydia Saad

PRINCETON, NJ -- Political ideology in the U.S. held steady in 2011, with 40% of Americans continuing to describe their views as conservative, 35% as moderate, and 21% as liberal. This marks the third straight year that conservatives have outnumbered moderates, after more than a decade in which moderates mainly tied or outnumbered conservatives.
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. . . .
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Conservatives Remain the Largest Ideological Group in U.S.

Looks to me that liberals and liberalism aren't as popular or as large a population as some would want to think.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Well he was the candidate the Republican Party chose to represent them, who was the social conservative canidate?
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I believe that would have been Santorum.

Given the wide range of positions and perspectives included in the Republican party tent, as it is a big tent, the ideal candidate would seem to be a mix of both social and fiscal conservatism, but not too much of either, nor too extreme of either.
 
eohrnberger said:
I believe that would have been Santorum.

Given the wide range of positions and perspectives included in the Republican party tent, as it is a big tent, the ideal candidate would seem to be a mix of both social and fiscal conservatism, but not too much of either, nor too extreme of either.
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Santorum had problems because on social issues he had a history of making controversial statments
 
bubbabgone said:
For one thing, I asked you not to cite MM but sobeit.
For another, the woman allegedly making up her story shouldn't have let anyone leave without telling them she was making it up.
For yet another thing, the reporting appears to have been accurate, no? She made those claims and they reported she made those claims.

Look ... if I were you I'd reconsider knee-jerk defenses of ACORN given their, um, ethical proclivities.
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Sorry I was in a hurry earlier... Breakfast, shower...etc
I don't know if I can prove to Beck meant to misled his audience, however it seems to me he would have spent a considerable amount of time explaining his reservations about the woman's story before showing the video. As it was, three minutes and 18 seconds in the video below before he said anything and even then it only consumed about 10 seconds at that. You could have sneezed and missed it. And if this was a legitimate story, why didn't Fox's news readers cover it? Watch the video and use your common sense.

 
pbrauer said:
Sorry I was in a hurry earlier... Breakfast, shower...etc
I don't know if I can prove to Beck meant to misled his audience, however it seems to me he would have spent a considerable amount of time explaining his reservations about the woman's story before showing the video. As it was, three minutes and 18 seconds in the video below before he said anything and even then it only consumed about 10 seconds at that. You could have sneezed and missed it. And if this was a legitimate story, why didn't Fox's news readers cover it? Watch the video and use your common sense.
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Look Pete, you keep missing what the point of the video was in the first place. It wasn't to expose a murderer, or to uncover some secret killing, it was to expose yet another nut job within the ACORN organization that was acting in a very inappropriate and unprofessional manner.

Regardless of the facts behind the claims she made, her making them was totally inappropriate behavior period. There is absolutely no justification for what she said in that video... None. Her job was to offer assistance and advice to the people of the community they served, and you just don't say things like that to the public, especially when you are representing a government sponsored public service organization.

Like I've said a hundred times, this was never billed as "confession of a murderer", it was billed as "look at the story this nut told".

What I'll never understand, is how you or anyone else would believe that the people watching this story, could have possibly walked away thinking that a murderer worked for ACORN, when it was stated quite clearly that they didn't know if it was true, and never once did anyone at Fox who showed the video say such a thing. Just because some lady said it, doesn't make it true, and even if a person were to watch the video without anyones commentary, I can't imagine they would walk away believing the woman was some murderer who had escaped justice... It just goes to show the powerful effects that politics can have on some people.
 
Middleground said:
What is your opinion of people posing as a pimp and a ho with a story about bringing minors into a life of prostitution?
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Are you trying to equate the two situations?
 
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