• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Are you pro life or pro choice?

Are you pro life or pro choice?

  • Total voters
    87
AGENT J said:
very good thank you for further proving me right, see the word especially, that word doesnt EXCLUDE people who dont feel that way it means they are especially included hence the comma and the word.

so again the facts remains if thats all we are going by then anybody who allows legal abortion for any reason is not pro-life

sorry iff you want to be irrational an illogical then this is the way it is, by definition you supplied and only

so NO by definition you cant support any legality of abortion if you are pro-life, thank you for proving how absurd your claim is again
Click to expand...
The definitions I provided prove that you can support certain exceptions and still be pro-life. The only one being absurd is you.
 
jamesrage said:
The definitions I provided prove that you can support certain exceptions and still be pro-life. The only one being absurd is you.
Click to expand...

Dictionaries only record common usage. They do not enforce particular usage. One of the consequences of “recording common usage” is that many definitions tend to change as the generations pass. Words can even become obsolete.
 
jamesrage said:
You abortionists use words like the war on women and other nonsense.So you have no room to accuse others of using emotional and inflammatory language.You support legalizes on demand abortion, You should own up to it instead of trying to hide behind labels that disassociate what you stand for.You support legalized on demand abortion.If you do not find abortion to be inhumane and vile then you should have no problem calling yourself pro-abortion or an abortionist.
Click to expand...


I 100% support the bold and never denied it. And I use rational arguments and language to support my reasons...not drama and emotion.

It's creepy and weird to invest your emotions in fantasy fetuses that may never even be born and that you dont actually even know exist. (Hence Roe vs Wade being based on privacy issues) It's self-righteous and *easy* to do so since it doesnt affect you in any way...not like actually doing something to HELP pregnant single women/moms, or volunteer in social services to actually HELP the women and children that are in financial and/or abusive situations.
 
AlbqOwl said:
It is not a person? When does it become a person? What point in the life of that human is less important than any other part? The conception when the sperm fertilizes the egg? The zygote? The embryo? The fetus? Two weeks before the assigned birth date? The newborn infant drawing its first breath outside the womb? Which stage can we eliminate and still produce a person?

Everything any of us are or will ever be as a person is already present in that fertilized egg. Nothing will be added to or subtracted from the potential in that DNA. It is the beginning of a human being, a person, no less important than any other stage in order for that person to be who he/she is.

And in my opinion, that should be the attitude of us all. There indeed are valid, moral, ethical reasons that a pregnancy should be terminated. But each time, we should always be conscious that it is the life of a person that we are ending.
Click to expand...

It is not a person. It's human, not a person. A corpse is human, it's not a person. DNA has nothing to do with personhood.

Our legal system recognizes someone as a person when they are BORN. When do you think a fetus should be considered a person who we recognize to have the same rights as born individuals?
 
AlbqOwl said:
But even here, and I'm pretty sure you and Grip would concur, that there can be a valid reason to end a pregnancy. If it is the life of the mother at stake and the only way to save her is to abort that baby--such instances are rare--but it could be the best choice. Most especially when there are other children at stake who need their mother.
Click to expand...

I think that is a reasonable stance on the issue, and as you said, it is very rare, and also, if a fetus is to the age of viability, there's likely a reasonable chance that it can also be delivered via C-section. Instances of a true emergent situation, where there must be a choice made between the mother and the baby, are rare.
 
grip said:
Now I might be inclined to be even more protective towards viable life if our species were facing population problems or extinction. But as it is we're facing the opposite with over population and lack of resources. Octomoms, fertility drugs - techniques and families having too many children to afford are all putting more pressure on society. It's simply not the world it was a 100 years ago where a lot of children could help the family provide.
Click to expand...

Imo, the supply and demand of people is not a reasonable method for determining the value of a life.
 
Lursa said:
It is not a person. It's human, not a person. A corpse is human, it's not a person. DNA has nothing to do with personhood.

Our legal system recognizes someone as a person when they are BORN. When do you think a fetus should be considered a person who we recognize to have the same rights as born individuals?
Click to expand...

Lursa said:
I 100% support the bold and never denied it. And I use rational arguments and language to support my reasons...not drama and emotion.

It's creepy and weird to invest your emotions in fantasy fetuses that may never even be born and that you dont actually even know exist. (Hence Roe vs Wade being based on privacy issues) It's self-righteous and *easy* to do so since it doesnt affect you in any way...not like actually doing something to HELP pregnant single women/moms, or volunteer in social services to actually HELP the women and children that are in financial and/or abusive situations.
Click to expand...

I can't wait until the day where we find intelligent extraterrestrial life forms who don't use the K-strategy reproduction but the r-strategy reproduction instead.

If I can right now at the moment I would make it so instead of women giving birth to one or two humans but to ten instead at a time. We will see how long all these ''potential'' and ''human dignity'' arguments last for.
 
lizzie said:
Imo, the supply and demand of people is not a reasonable method for determining the value of a life.
Click to expand...

The law of supply and demand applies to all life forms on this planet. After all, we don't find mosquito life valuable because it's extremely common.

Now our population numbers are well over 8 billion so there is no reason to think now that every human that implants in the womb must be carried full term for some reason.
 
lizzie said:
Imo, the supply and demand of people is not a reasonable method for determining the value of a life.
Click to expand...

I thought that might come up and I don't draw the line at supply and demand, simply consider all implications. We can say we wouldn't be moved by other considerations but that's simply not true. Look at how far modern medicine has changed the equation on when a fetus is viable. And if the planet were so over populated that it drastically affected the quality of existence they would probably be sterilizing people. Giving birth and procreating has no absolutes in an ever changing civilization.

I personally wouldn't have deprived Terri Schiavo of water and food till she died. But that's just me.
 
Lursa said:
I 100% support the bold and never denied it. And I use rational arguments and language to support my reasons...not drama and emotion.

It's creepy and weird to invest your emotions in fantasy fetuses that may never even be born and that you dont actually even know exist. (Hence Roe vs Wade being based on privacy issues) It's self-righteous and *easy* to do so since it doesnt affect you in any way...not like actually doing something to HELP pregnant single women/moms, or volunteer in social services to actually HELP the women and children that are in financial and/or abusive situations.
Click to expand...
Fantasy fetuses?Is this a new term invented by abortionists to dehumanize abortion victims?
 
jamesrage said:
Fantasy fetuses?Is this a new term invented by abortionists to dehumanize abortion victims?
Click to expand...

It's one created to indicate that you have no idea what or where these fetuses are or even if they exist. You choose to *imagine* them and invest emotion in them...your choice of course. As a I said, a self-righteous and easy one since they do not affect you in any way.
 
Lursa said:
It is not a person. It's human, not a person. A corpse is human, it's not a person. DNA has nothing to do with personhood.

Our legal system recognizes someone as a person when they are BORN. When do you think a fetus should be considered a person who we recognize to have the same rights as born individuals?
Click to expand...

To me there is no difference between the fetus and the newborn baby other than its age. Both are totally dependent on another human for life. And neither can exist without living through the formative stage in which they exist at any given time. Surely you understand the difference between a living being, full of potential, and a corpse? And, in my opinion, to not understand that the unborn baby, at any stage of his/her development, is a human life is to result in the attitude expressed by GEIxBattleRifle up there who seems to think eight billion people is sufficient and therefore life is expendable.

Such leads to forced abortion, forced sterilization, restricting couples to one child, etc. as we see in China today, or other cultures who see human life as expendable for the common good. Next we could be putting the aged out to die as the Native Americans once did, or destroying the 'lesser humans' as Hitler once did and to some extent slave-owning America once did, or committing general genocide of certain people as the Romans once did.

I want America to be better than that and to be a culture of life, not expediency.
 
AlbqOwl said:
To me there is no difference between the fetus and the newborn baby other than its age. Both are totally dependent on another human for life. And neither can exist without living through the formative stage in which they exist at any given time. Surely you understand the difference between a living being, full of potential, and a corpse? And, in my opinion, to not understand that the unborn baby, at any stage of his/her development, is a human life is to result in the attitude expressed by GEIxBattleRifle up there who seems to think eight billion people is sufficient and therefore life is expendable.

Such leads to forced abortion, forced sterilization, restricting couples to one child, etc. as we see in China today, or other cultures who see human life as expendable for the common good. Next we could be putting the aged out to die as the Native Americans once did, or destroying the 'lesser humans' as Hitler once did and to some extent slave-owning America once did, or committing general genocide of certain people as the Romans once did.

I want America to be better than that and to be a culture of life, not expediency.
Click to expand...

That's fine to have that opinion.

And for every woman to have the right to her opinion and to back it up with choice....whichever way she decides.
 
minnie616 said:
The clinic you mentioned however does not perform legal abortions after 24 weeks gestation.
Click to expand...

Well, that answers that. Yeah they have been in business for quite some time now. Don't remember the name of it, I'll find out for you and PM it. Don't want to feed the trolls here.
 
lizzie said:
I think that is a reasonable stance on the issue, and as you said, it is very rare, and also, if a fetus is to the age of viability, there's likely a reasonable chance that it can also be delivered via C-section. Instances of a true emergent situation, where there must be a choice made between the mother and the baby, are rare.
Click to expand...

Ectopic pregnancy is one such instance.

Between 1.5 and 2 percent of pregnancies are ectopic and they happen early in the pregnancy.

About 8 percent of pregnancies are a variant of eclampsia , pre eclampsia or HELLP syndrome. If the fetus is viable when/ if the pregnancy becomes life threatening than a c section can be preformed. If the fetus is not viable than delivering the fetus to save the woman would be an abortion since the fetus would have no chance of survial.
 
Lursa said:
This is just another common irrationality found in pro-lifers....and just written out by 2 people in the last 2 pages: that a fetus could "make a choice."
Click to expand...
When you were younger you were also in the fetal stage of your lifespan. Are you incapable of making a choice?
 
Muhammed said:
When you were younger you were also in the fetal stage of your lifespan. Are you incapable of making a choice?
Click to expand...

Well in the fetal stage I was incapable, according to our medical knowlege. I of course have no idea.

Now I can...I am born and make decisions all the time.
 
Lursa said:
Well in the fetal stage I was incapable, according to our medical knowlege. I of course have no idea.

Now I can...I am born and make decisions all the time.
Click to expand...
I suppose the way I look at it...should we presume to know what decision a fetus would make, if it could? I mean, we already ARE assuming that...wherever your opinion falls on the topic.
 
Navy Pride said:
Its legal murder my friend.
Click to expand...

Oxymoron.

Something cannot be "legal murder" since the very definition of murder is unlawful killing.

It could be considered "unjustifiable killing", but not murder.
 
Lursa said:
Well in the fetal stage I was incapable, according to our medical knowlege. I of course have no idea.

Now I can...I am born and make decisions all the time.
Click to expand...
Nobody can make decisions instantly. According to the laws of physics that is impossible. It takes time.
 
Muhammed said:
Nobody can make decisions instantly. According to the laws of physics that is impossible. It takes time.
Click to expand...

Instantly? What are you talking about?
 
Lursa said:
No. I claimed a fetus cannot.
Click to expand...
Why are you dehumanizing people in the fetal stage of their lifespan?

Sure those people can make decisions. Just like you and me. I just takes them longer to do it.

But I also realize that trying to argue that point with a girl who has chosen to "terminate a pregnancy" (AKA murder a baby) and any guy who has pressured them to do that, is usually a futile effort.

It may be too hard for them to admit to themselves, let alone others that they did wrong.

It's too hurtful for them to admit it.

To those people I say...


[Truth will set you free
 
Last edited:
Lursa said:
There is no shortage of humans and despite abortion being legal for 40 yrs....more women still decide to GIVE birth and there are plenty of people....dont need that drama.

To me, to put up roadblocks that *can be avoided* in front of women who deserve to fulfill their own potentials in life...that is a great waste. These women are already born and part of society...how wasteful is it to insist they take a path that may damage that? It should be their decision alone. You basically tell them they are not as important as a fetus...an unknown that may miscarry or have defects. Is that how you make important decisions in your own life? Risking the known for the unknown?

Just to *believe* that strangers or the govt should have the right to demand a woman not have a choice shows a great lack of respect for women. A society of strong women CAPABLE of being good mothers speaks to great human dignity. They wont become that if they have unwanted roadblocks in their lives.
Click to expand...

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom