Which major religion has more insight into human nature?

cpwill said:

If so, social science seems to be giving us a +2 with regards to organization of the basic social unit.

Call it Coincidence?

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For the sake of peace, I'll call it a happy blending of the ways and leave it at that. :lol:

Certain schools of Buddhism, hands down. Not even a second thought.

cpwill said:

That's interesting. I choose Christianity for the same reason - that it starts from the presupposition that all humans are broken, wounded, flawed. Christ teaches that human error needs only repentance to be overcome; Buddha that thousands of lifetimes of pain and toil must instead be demanded.

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The bolded is the reason that I find it much too simplistic. The two really aren't the same at all. In Christianity, the source of suffering is human nature, and the things we do as a result of our human nature. The way to salvation is to repent and have faith that someone else can absolve us of our sins. In Buddhism, the source of suffering is our perception, and not our actual circumstances. The way to "salvation", although I hesitate to even put it in those terms, is through proper action, and proper thinking, among a few other concepts.

Goshin said:

I have studied all 5, and chose to adhere to Christianity, because it speaks true to me.


However, I do not consider it disloyal to my faith to say I have found much that is admirable and wise in Buddhism and Taoism as well. Hinduism is interesting but never really struck me as having possession of any great insights. Islam never appealed at all, apologies to any offended in present company.

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I would have to get a alcohol and pork waver before I could ever seriously look at Islam. Although it stands to reason that Islam, being a post axial religion, would probably be pretty insightful into the human condition. Like the Gospels it contains a lot wise parables.

lizzie said:

The bolded is the reason that I find it much too simplistic. The two really aren't the same at all. In Christianity, the source of suffering is human nature, and the things we do as a result of our human nature. The way to salvation is to repent and have faith that someone else can absolve us of our sins. In Buddhism, the source of suffering is our perception, and not our actual circumstances. The way to "salvation", although I hesitate to even put it in those terms, is through proper action, and proper thinking, among a few other concepts.

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:raises eyebrow: first you claim that Christianity's yoke is too heavy, and then that it is too light. Which is it?

cpwill said:

:raises eyebrow: first you claim that Christianity's yoke is too heavy, and then that it is too light. Which is it?

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I don't care if it's too heavy or too light. I explained why I can't buy the simplicity of it.

lizzie said:

I don't care if it's too heavy or too light. I explained why I can't buy the simplicity of it.

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And then you described a process in Buddhism that is the same process in Christianity; "repentance" does not mean "feeling bad about something", it comes from a Roman military term which basically meant "to the rear, march", which is to say a reversal in your own direction, and active movement away, both in thought and in deed.

cpwill said:

And then you described a process in Buddhism that is the same process in Christianity; "repentance" does not mean "feeling bad about something", it comes from a Roman military term which basically meant "to the rear, march", which is to say a reversal in your own direction, and active movement away, both in thought and in deed.

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But Christians believe that you have faith (in Jesus) (or get saved, or however one likes to state it), then you can pass go, collect $200, and get to heaven regardless of what you have done. That is far too simplistic for me to have any faith in at all. I'm not claiming to know all the answers- just saying that I believe there's much more to the story than just that.

lizzie said:

But Christians believe that you have faith (in Jesus) (or get saved, or however one likes to state it), then you can pass go, collect $200, and get to heaven regardless of what you have done.

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....er, yes and no. Faith apart from works is dead - even satan knows that Jesus is the Son of God and offers salvation.

That is far too simplistic for me to have any faith in at all. I'm not claiming to know all the answers- just saying that I believe there's much more to the story than just that.

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:shrug: well, firstly, I wouldn't dismiss the simple, or even the deep complexity of the simple. Plenty of simple things are true, and plenty of simple things are rich and complex in application. Secondly, I would ask why you think that the Buddhist path is more complex, given that they both seem to involve roughly the same motion, with Buddhism simply containing much, much more of it due to having to do it through centuries.

DA60 said:

Uhh...okay.

So because every society 'had one' that must mean it was good?

So the tens of millions that suffered/suffer are just 'aberrations' or 'unfortunate side effects' of the greater good of having 'God clubs'? And yet, outside of stoping weak-minded people from jumping out of windows, it offers zero good in of itself. They might as well have sat around believing in flatulence or grass or wind.
....

Good day.

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Thank you for your fair wishes :2wave:

And no, it doesn't prove anything that every society developed along with its religion. It only shows that they did and others didn't.

NoC_T said:

I do hope we haven't been chasing our own tails this whole time, or we stand to be the butt of future jokes.

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If I am chasing my own tail, it doesn't bother me. At least it keeps me occupied.

As for being the butt of a future joke, I don't plan to be here forever, and if I am, at least I have already learned to laugh at myself.

lizzie said:

If I am chasing my own tail, it doesn't bother me. At least it keeps me occupied.

As for being the butt of a future joke, I don't plan to be here forever, and if I am, at least I have already learned to laugh at myself.

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But what if you're immortal?

Ah, see. Didn't think of that did ya, little miss clever clogs?

NoC_T said:

But what if you're immortal?

Ah, see. Didn't think of that did ya, little miss clever clogs?

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But I am immortal. I just don't plan to be living on planet earth forever. :lol:

lizzie said:

But I am immortal. I just don't plan to be living on planet earth forever. :lol:

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Can't say as I blame you. Forests in autumn don't hold a candle to the rocky promontories of Alpha Centauri. We'll do lunch. It should be cool.

cpwill said:

....er, yes and no. Faith apart from works is dead - even satan knows that Jesus is the Son of God and offers salvation.



:shrug: well, firstly, I wouldn't dismiss the simple, or even the deep complexity of the simple. Plenty of simple things are true, and plenty of simple things are rich and complex in application. Secondly, I would ask why you think that the Buddhist path is more complex, given that they both seem to involve roughly the same motion, with Buddhism simply containing much, much more of it due to having to do it through centuries.

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Allow me to jump in. I would have joined the conversation earlier but I've been out of town for almost a week. Bless Mississippi. I do love it there. It is a beautiful and graceful place with some of the best people on earth.

I find that Christianity and Buddhism are similar in many ways. Obviously they are fundamentally different.

Buddhism was more difficult for me to understand than was Christianity. Truth told there are still concepts in Buddhism I struggle with. Buddhism as you know doesn't have any commandments. We have what I sometimes refer to as "suggestions". Buddhists don't believe in the Christian concept of sin. With no deity, no "Shalt nots" and no prescribed punishments for harms done Buddhists are no less worthy than any other group of people on earth. As a Buddhist I believe that I create my own reality. My thoughts, my intent, my words, my actions and inactions make my world. It's down to me, all of it. Buddhism teaches me why and how. It can be extremely complex. Buddhism philosophy is no walk through the park.

In short, most Buddhists - not all - believe that it is all on us as individuals. No higher power will intercede and rescue us when the fit hits the shan.

DA60 said:

Fair enough...but I was talking in terms of use to humanity.

Many millions have died and many, MANY millions more have been persecuted, abused, oppressed in various ways strictly because of their religious 'beliefs'; and yet there is zero factual proof that anyone was ever 'saved' at death.

What a pathetic human invention religion was...especially the major ones.

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Personally, I think that...

At best, religion was partially inspired by a supernatural entity or entities, with additional stuff added on by people
And at worst, was fabricated entirely by people as a way to control other people.

The Mark said:

Personally, I think that...

At best, religion was partially inspired by a supernatural entity or entities, with additional stuff added on by people
And at worst, was fabricated entirely by people as a way to control other people.

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I think the bolded is something that happened as a result of religion, and not as cause for it. One of the primary reasons for the existence of religion, is that humans needed it for various reasons. They needed it to explain the things they couldn't understand, and as comfort in dealing with the realities of life as it is.

I mean, think about it. Sometimes life just really, really sucks, and it's damn depressing to think that we go through the pain and suffering for nothing at all.