13 years old should be the legal age of an adult?

X Factor said:

Meh, I figured it probably wouldn't be a forever goodbye.

Click to expand...

We don't have to agree on everything to be friends

Steve Ja said:

No but 13 year old I do. Sorry you didn't miss me

Click to expand...

Which begs the question, "Are you a 13 year old who wishes to have sex, or are you an adult wanting to have sex with a child?"

Realistically, individuals vary greatly from the norm. I've known some 13yo's who were remarkably mature in many ways; I've known 40 year olds who weren't.


However, those are exceptions to the norms, or at least, to expectations. An immature 40yo is a problem; an immature 13yo is common and there are mechanisms in place to moderate their tendency to foolishness (ie parental control, teachers, adult supervision, etc.)

Contrary to societal trends, I raised my son to learn responsibility and to mature much earlier than most; part of this was in how I treated him, tasks I assigned him, and expectations I expressed to him. He was doing work many would consider "adult" at age 13 (running heavy equipment, cutting down trees with a chainsaw, etc.)... but under a certain amount of supervision.

In brief, despite being raised with high expectations of responsibility and maturity and demonstrating far more of same than most his age, no he was NOT a mature adult at 13, and I would have resisted any attempt to make him legally liable for adult responsibilities at that age.

Yes, technically they can reproduce at 13. Mentally, socially, educationally and fiscally they are not ready, and it is parental responsibility to see that it doesn't happen yet.

There's a reason why we use age as the conditional for adulthood, and that is because it is easy to measure, whereas maturity is far more difficult to nail down and not easily tested for.

My son is now 18 and is certainly a man, legally and in his mental and emotional maturity. However I see many of his peers behaving nearly as stupidly as they did at 13-15, and that they are legal adults (more or less) is appalling in some ways... but you have to draw the line somewhere.

Our society has gotten ridiculous in extending adolescent behavior well into the 20s, but legally lowering the age to 13 isn't the answer. Maturity isn't a matter of legality, but of societal expectations and norms, and development.


So no, I'm not in favor of this idea at all. Teenagers can get "emancipated" younger than 18 by court order if they meet certain criteria; this allows the exceptional to do this, and that's good enough, as most are not ready <18.


Possibly we as a society need to recognize that Child/Adult is not a binary state; not On/Off, Yes/No... but rather a sliding scale of development that takes time.

IMHO by the time a child is 13-14yo, they are NOT a "Child" in the same sense as an 8yo is a Child... but they are not an adult yet either. We have this word "Adolescent" for this already.

Even at 18-22 or so, legally young "Adults", there is little question that such persons could (and often do) benefit greatly from some guidance and mentoring by older and more experienced persons.

Hell, practically ANYONE can benefit from some occasional guidance/mentoring by a more experienced person, no? I'm nearly 50, and I miss being able to discuss major decisions with my late father... whether I took his advice or not, he almost always had some interesting points to consider.


Regardless of the law's view, to ME it is something like this:

Baby >5
Child 5-12
Adolescent 13-16 (approx.)
Young Adult 17-22 or so

In my personal viewpoint, and Adolescent is no longer a CHILD per-se, but still well short of responsible adulthood. A Young Adult is technically an adult, but still young enough to NEED (in most cases) some mature guidance in their life.


Possibly our society would benefit from a similar viewpoint being made in law, rather than the current chaotic system where you can be tried as an adult at 12, can have sex legally in some states at 14-16, can't drive until you're 16, can vote or join the army at 18 but can't drink or carry a gun until you're 21... in other words where we make Adult a binary On/Off thing in SOME respects but a sliding scale in others. Maybe we need to officially recognize that it is a sliding scale with several levels and build that into our legal code.

Steve Ja said:

Work In Progress - Adolescent Brains Are A Work In Progress | Inside The Teenage Brain | FRONTLINE | PBS
I found this that seems to argue both ways, doesn't really give a clear cut age though
While Adolescents May Reason As Well As Adults, Their Emotional Maturity Lags, Says New Research
this one might even be suggesting older then 25.

Click to expand...

We know all that, 18 is a compromise, 21 is much more realistic. The age is a compromise to what works in our culture. We are ALL pointing out that 13 does not remotely work in our culture and they and others would not even be safe. Driving, sex, working, having children, having the right to decide they no longer need to stay in school.

These links didnt work for you?

Lursa said:

You are completely wrong. You want to be taken seriously and keep saying...'I want to learn'...I truly no longer believe that you are 34. I just dont. You base your opinions on wishful thinking and not much else.


Your Teen (from Scientific American)

10.16.2008 - This is your brain on adolescence (From USC Berkeley)

Why do teens make foolish decisions?

Adolescent Brain and Behavior | Why Do Teens Act This Way?


And there's a million more.

Click to expand...

American said:

So what group of morons is proposing this?

Click to expand...

So, American, those with opposing ideas are morons....Good to know where we stand...
13, 18, 26 ...some never grow up, and some 13 year olds are more mature than you and I..
Its NOT time, its the self and their environment.....but this is unworkable....
IMO, 26 is closer to "ideal" (which does not exist) than 13...

Steve Ja said:

I personally do not. I also don't think it's acceptable for a 25 and a 45 year old. It's not about what I think is acceptable, it's about what I think the capabilities are.

Click to expand...

And yet you criticize women for NOT taking responsibility for their pregnancies and are against abortion. ADULT women. And you think that 13 yr olds...boys and girls...are going to be remotely responsible when having sex? So we'll have more kids and families on welfare...which you are also against. What jobs can 13 yr olds get and support a family? Do you think any of this stuff thru?

Gardener said:

Which begs the question, "Are you a 13 year old who wishes to have sex, or are you an adult wanting to have sex with a child?"

Click to expand...

none of the above

Lursa said:

And yet you criticize women for NOT taking responsibility for their pregnancies and are against abortion. ADULT women. And you think that 13 yr olds...boys and girls...are going to be remotely responsible when having sex? So we'll have more kids and families on welfare...which you are also against. What jobs can 13 yr olds get and support a family? Do you think any of this stuff thru?

Click to expand...

Yes I'm against killing unborn human beings. No I am not against 13 year old taking charge of their own lives. as I said previously current laws do not allow 13 year olds to support anything. That's not the debate. Debate is should they be considered and are the capable. I say yes.

ah now they are working. I'll read them after I take care of a couple things around here.

Interesting how the discussion automatically turned to sex.

Steve Ja said:

Yes I'm against killing unborn human beings. No I am not against 13 year old taking charge of their own lives. as I said previously current laws do not allow 13 year olds to support anything. That's not the debate. Debate is should they be considered and are the capable. I say yes.

Click to expand...

I doubt if you even know any 13-year-olds. When I was 13 years old, I was certainly not capable of caring for myself.

1) How would they get a job? They have no education.
2) Should they be held legally responsible and have to fines and such? If so, they would need a job because their parents could no longer be liable. That means if they were driving and hit a person, they had better be able to pay up.
3) Do you think 13-year-olds are mature, responsible and capable of driving on our major interstates?
4) Do you think 13-year-olds have the experience, emotional and mental maturity to deal with sexual pressure from adults? How do you think a 13-year-old girl would handle that? How about a boy?
5) Do you think 13-year-old children should be making their own decisions about their education and lives in the long-term? What if they wanted to drop out of school?
6) Smoking, drinking? Do you think 13-year-old children should be allowed into bars and night clubs too, drinking and smoking? Do you think they would make responsible and mature decisions about such things, or do they tend to follow the pack for the most part?
7) Voting? Do you think 13-year-old children are knowledgeable enough to cast votes? Do they understand the implications of casting a vote and do they understand the candidates and their platforms?
8) Credit. Should we allow them to have credit cards too, and hold them financially responsible when they mess up? They would have to go to court and may be court ordered to pay, sometimes people can be thrown in jail for these things when they refuse to pay or cannot pay too.

ChrisL said:

I doubt if you even know any 13-year-olds. When I was 13 years old, I was certainly not capable of caring for myself.

1) How would they get a job? They have no education.
2) Should they be held legally responsible and have to fines and such? If so, they would need a job because their parents could no longer be liable. That means if they were driving and hit a person, they had better be able to pay up.
3) Do you think 13-year-olds are mature, responsible and capable of driving on our major interstates?
4) Do you think 13-year-olds have the experience, emotional and mental maturity to deal with sexual pressure from adults? How do you think a 13-year-old girl would handle that? How about a boy?
5) Do you think 13-year-old children should be making their own decisions about their education and lives in the long-term? What if they wanted to drop out of school?
6) Smoking, drinking? Do you think 13-year-old children should be allowed into bars and night clubs too, drinking and smoking? Do you think they would make responsible and mature decisions about such things, or do they tend to follow the pack for the most part?
7) Voting? Do you think 13-year-old children are knowledgeable enough to cast votes? Do they understand the implications of casting a vote and do they understand the candidates and their platforms?
8) Credit. Should we allow them to have credit cards too, and hold them financially responsible when they mess up? They would have to go to court and may be court ordered to pay, sometimes people can be thrown in jail for these things when they refuse to pay or cannot pay too.

Click to expand...

These are all excellent questions, Chris. I was trying to remember if he said he had kids. I thought I remember he said he did his unrealistic expectations seemed to suggest he didn't. I was about to ask him, but it looks like I won't be getting an answer. Maybe under his next username.

X Factor said:

These are all excellent questions, Chris. I was trying to remember if he said he had kids. I thought I remember he said he did his unrealistic expectations seemed to suggest he didn't. I was about to ask him, but it looks like I won't be getting an answer. Maybe under his next username.

Click to expand...

Oh, banned, I didn't even notice. :lol:

ChrisL said:

Oh, banned, I didn't even notice. :lol:

Click to expand...

It is harder to tell when the avatar sticks around.

X Factor said:

These are all excellent questions, Chris. I was trying to remember if he said he had kids. I thought I remember he said he did his unrealistic expectations seemed to suggest he didn't. I was about to ask him, but it looks like I won't be getting an answer. Maybe under his next username.

Click to expand...

Yes you are right. Very unrealistic expectations for a 13-year-old. If you give it any thought at all, you can see how stupid it really is to even suggest such a thing.

ChrisL said:

I doubt if you even know any 13-year-olds. When I was 13 years old, I was certainly not capable of caring for myself.

1) How would they get a job? They have no education.
2) Should they be held legally responsible and have to fines and such? If so, they would need a job because their parents could no longer be liable. That means if they were driving and hit a person, they had better be able to pay up.
3) Do you think 13-year-olds are mature, responsible and capable of driving on our major interstates?
4) Do you think 13-year-olds have the experience, emotional and mental maturity to deal with sexual pressure from adults? How do you think a 13-year-old girl would handle that? How about a boy?
5) Do you think 13-year-old children should be making their own decisions about their education and lives in the long-term? What if they wanted to drop out of school?
6) Smoking, drinking? Do you think 13-year-old children should be allowed into bars and night clubs too, drinking and smoking? Do you think they would make responsible and mature decisions about such things, or do they tend to follow the pack for the most part?
7) Voting? Do you think 13-year-old children are knowledgeable enough to cast votes? Do they understand the implications of casting a vote and do they understand the candidates and their platforms?
8) Credit. Should we allow them to have credit cards too, and hold them financially responsible when they mess up? They would have to go to court and may be court ordered to pay, sometimes people can be thrown in jail for these things when they refuse to pay or cannot pay too.

Click to expand...

I think there should be a graduated system, with youth having much more rights than at present, so I'll try to respond.

1. They do have some education, their educational level would be sufficient for some jobs.
2. Yes.
3. I think that driving rights should be based on other characteristics than age, most 13 year olds probably wouldn't qualify.
4. I think that all sex outside marriage should be illegal.
5. Probably.
6. I don't think that the smoking and drinking ages should be changed.
7. Those things could be said about most voters. I think that the electoral system should be changed to be more along the lines of a deliberative jury-style system. I would allow 13 year olds to participate in such a system.
8. Yes.

Steve Ja said:

1.)I personally do not. I also don't think it's acceptable for a 25 and a 45 year old.
2.)It's not about what I think is acceptable, it's about what I think the capabilities are.

Click to expand...

1.) how about 23 and 13?
2.) no its about what reality, facts and science KNOW they are

Steve Ja said:

I will still argue my side of the story.

Click to expand...

again you havent made any argument besides "nu-huh"
do you have something better than that?

Steve Ja said:

Work In Progress - Adolescent Brains Are A Work In Progress | Inside The Teenage Brain | FRONTLINE | PBS
I found this that seems to argue both ways, doesn't really give a clear cut age though
While Adolescents May Reason As Well As Adults, Their Emotional Maturity Lags, Says New Research
this one might even be suggesting older then 25.

Click to expand...

none of the info there saying ANYTHING about 13 being the same as 18, try again
do you understand the discussion?
what you posted was about 16 year olds and SOME may be better than we think and there isnt A LOT of great differences before 17 and younger but POSSIBLY some significant ones after 18 and up

wheres the part about 13 = 18?

AGENT J said:

again you havent made any argument besides "nu-huh"
do you have something better than that?

Click to expand...

It seems he got banned. I didnt see where tho, maybe a different thread.

And someone else here said he'd been on the forum under a different previously..."Quik"

I dont recognize that name but I havent been here that long.

Lursa said:

It seems he got banned. I didnt see where tho, maybe a different thread.

And someone else here said he'd been on the forum under a different previously..."Quik"

I dont recognize that name but I havent been here that long.

Click to expand...

yeah i saw that lol this is what happens to those types

Lursa said:

It seems he got banned. I didnt see where tho, maybe a different thread.

And someone else here said he'd been on the forum under a different previously..."Quik"

I dont recognize that name but I havent been here that long.

Click to expand...

Yup, I remember him. I think you're right and that was the same poster.

molten_dragon said:

No, a 13-year-old is nowhere near as mature as an 18-year-old. They're still growing and their brains are still developing.

Click to expand...

I assume somebody already pointed this out, but your brain doesn't stop developing until you are about 27, so your argument isn't sound.

Robbie Loucks said:

I assume somebody already pointed this out, but your brain doesn't stop developing until you are about 27, so your argument isn't sound.

Click to expand...

just because its not done growing doesnt impact the validity of his statement at all, its still 100% valid and sound.

Robbie Loucks said:

I assume somebody already pointed this out, but your brain doesn't stop developing until you are about 27, so your argument isn't sound.

Click to expand...

It's perfectly sound. An 18 year old's brain is much closer to fully developed than a 13 year old's.

That said, I'm not a fan of age-based prerequisites for adulthood, but I also understand why they exist, and why they'll continue to. And as long as they do, 18 is a far better cutoff than 13.