Is minimum wage a lot?

Peter Grimm said:

I disagree with this part (above), can you please explain your thinking behind it?

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Simple. Let's say we raised minimum wage to $40000 a year but no other wages were to increase for any other professions. You can seriously tell me that someone folding towels in a gym or flipping burgers should earn as much as a paramedic? They should make as much as a short haul pilot? Really?
You earn what your skills are worth....your skills are only worth what they bring to the table.

Peter Grimm said:

This looks like a slippery slope argument to me. I'm not buying it. Just because you raise the minimum wage doesn't mean everyone else gets a raise from their employers.

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Would you not be devaluing more experienced workers if you only raised the minimum wage workers pay? IMO this would be especially true in jobs where there is not much difference between a entry level worker and the first line supervisor.

No, but then again it's the legal minimum. It shouldn't be a lot.

vasuderatorrent said:

Assuming a 40 hour work week, is minimum wage a lot of money?

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compared to no money yes.. compared to 97% of the jobs out there, no. 14,500 is hard to live off of in all parts of the country, throw in a dependent, or two and you are looking at poverty and government assistance needed to stay afloat

digsbe said:

No, but then again it's the legal minimum. It shouldn't be a lot.

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There should be no minimum. Business is about mutual agreements and the market will determine the value of any goods and services.

vasuderatorrent said:

Perhaps Jesus didn't but Old Testament law forbade farmers for harvesting the corners of their field and the gleaning of their fields. This was supposed to be left for the poor and the illegal Mexicans. (I'm paraphrasing a bit but it's the same sentiment.) This is exactly the spirit of our current food stamp program. The whole theme of the prophets in the Old Testament was critical of Israel because of their unwillingness to care for the poor and to enforce crime. This is why most Jews are liberal leaning in their politics. They know that a society will result in violence and chaos when the poor are ignored.

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But they were God's people following God's rules. At that point in time their leader was God. It wasn't until later were they ruled by a King. And yes the Jewish people were taught to leave a portion of their crops to be gleaned by the poor. But at least the poor had to get up off their asses and go harvest it, then process it, before they could eat it. It wasn't direct deposited into their account.

Really? The homeless guy that roamed around and took the ancient form of food stamps?

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The Prodical Son blew his wealth and was left poor and ended up fighting the pigs for his food before he returned to his father's house and got a new start which included earning his way.

My favorite misquoted scripture in the Bible. Read the whole chapter.

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Misquoted? Ha Maybe you my friend need to re-read 2 Thessalonians Here is an excerpt to get you started....

"One further order we must give you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: don’t associate with the brother whose life is undisciplined, and who despises the teaching we gave him. You know well that we ourselves are your examples here, and that our lives among you were never undisciplined. We did not eat anyone’s food without paying for it. In fact we toiled and laboured night and day to avoid being the slightest expense to any of you. This was not because we had no right to ask our necessities of you, but because we wanted to set you an example. When we were actually with you we gave you this principle to work on: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.” Now we hear that you have some among you living quite undisciplined lives, never doing a stroke of work, and busy only in other people’s affairs. Our order to such men, indeed our appeal by the Lord Jesus Christ, is to settle down to work and eat the food they have earned themselves."

The government cannot steal what belongs to them. Our money supply is characterized as Federal Reserve Notes. Dollars must be paid back to the Federal Reserve. In the 1860's and the 1890's the Income Tax was deemed unconstitutional. It is no longer unconstitutional. The government doesn't give away Gold Certificates or Silver Certificates any more. They now loan Federal Reserve Notes to banks. The banks loan these Federal Reserve Notes to businesses and individuals. You have to pay these back. In the meantime, use them as currency. Keep them flowing around. You don't want to be caught holding the bag.

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What I earn fairly is mine and it is stealing every time someone like you votes for someone that will freely stick their hand in my pockets to benefit you.

vasuderatorrent said:

What does that got to do with the price of beans in China? Just because you make minimum wage, you still have to pay your bills. What the f*** are you talk about? It seems like your desire to hate people has clouded your ability to have a conversation. People making minimum wage buy food, pay rent, pay for electricity, buy gas and pay their car insurance. Are you really as dumb as you are pretending to be? Nobody can possibly be as dumb as you are pretending to be. You must be a super fake.

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Not necessarily. Many of these people can only pay their bills if they get that supplemental check from the government and the reality remains that they have made bad decisions and acted irresponsibly and now the taxpayer has to pay for their mistakes and we shouldn't have to do that. I'm sorry that you're unable to understand the facts without resulting to insults.

Depends. If you've no commute expense, no rent expense (yay college), you're in good health, it's just spending $. If you're a single mom and that job is 30 miles away, gonna be a real struggle.

Then again, i don't know why any adult without mental illness or criminal record would be at minimum wage job. $12/hr as entry research assistant and $17/hr as HR intern, i can't imagine ever settling for minimum wage again.

vasuderatorrent said:

News Flash to all idiots
When people are given the choice between earning $15,080 per year and $50,000 per year they will choose the job paying $50,000 per year. Also nobody has a crystal ball. Nobody knows what the future holds. (There are four exceptions: Cephus, Ocean515, Neomalthusian or Rocketman all know every single thing.) It is possible to make $50,000 for 10 years and then get laid off because the company closed. Making $0 instead of $15,080 just to avoid being labelled an idiot by Cephus, Ocean515, Neomalthusian or Rocketman would be a poor decision.
News Flash to all idiots

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Anyone who takes time to do unproductive things to avoid being considered an idiot, rather than productive things that will provide evidence they are not, is, well, an idiot.

vesper said:

But they were God's people following God's rules. At that point in time their leader was God. It wasn't until later were they ruled by a King. And yes the Jewish people were taught to leave a portion of their crops to be gleaned by the poor. But at least the poor had to get up off their asses and go harvest it, then process it, before they could eat it. It wasn't direct deposited into their account.



The Prodical Son blew his wealth and was left poor and ended up fighting the pigs for his food before he returned to his father's house and got a new start which included earning his way.




Misquoted? Ha Maybe you my friend need to re-read 2 Thessalonians Here is an excerpt to get you started....

"One further order we must give you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: don’t associate with the brother whose life is undisciplined, and who despises the teaching we gave him. You know well that we ourselves are your examples here, and that our lives among you were never undisciplined. We did not eat anyone’s food without paying for it. In fact we toiled and laboured night and day to avoid being the slightest expense to any of you. This was not because we had no right to ask our necessities of you, but because we wanted to set you an example. When we were actually with you we gave you this principle to work on: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.” Now we hear that you have some among you living quite undisciplined lives, never doing a stroke of work, and busy only in other people’s affairs. Our order to such men, indeed our appeal by the Lord Jesus Christ, is to settle down to work and eat the food they have earned themselves."



What I earn fairly is mine and it is stealing every time someone like you votes for someone that will freely stick their hand in my pockets to benefit you.

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Excellent post, Vesper. I particularly liked the reference you made that if the gleaners wanted the food, they had to make the effort to get it. No one else was going to do the work for them, and then just give it to them for free, no matter how much they whined!

Greetings, Vesper. :2wave:

Unitedwestand13 said:

many of these kids might already have college degrees but cannot find employment because there are no openings.

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it couldn't be because they lack experience? also many won't look outside certain market areas? why would any work at McDonalds when places like North Dakota, Alaska, and even Houston, TX have good job markets?

vasuderatorrent said:

News Flash to all idiots
When people are given the choice between earning $15,080 per year and $50,000 per year they will choose the job paying $50,000 per year. Also nobody has a crystal ball. Nobody knows what the future holds. (There are four exceptions: Cephus, Ocean515, Neomalthusian or Rocketman all know every single thing.) It is possible to make $50,000 for 10 years and then get laid off because the company closed. Making $0 instead of $15,080 just to avoid being labelled an idiot by Cephus, Ocean515, Neomalthusian or Rocketman would be a poor decision.
News Flash to all idiots

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I don't know ANYONE that wanted to work after being layed off that isn't working. Of course they all moved to where the jobs are. People that are unwilling to change their thinking in a changing economy will always carry that self pity

vasuderatorrent said:

Assuming a 40 hour work week, is minimum wage a lot of money?

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A lot? No. Enough to get by? I have no idea...

In comparison to wages versus a typical plant manager or CEO in 1954, it is abysmally low. Minimum wage should be much more, and taken from those that paid no tax last year, such as Facebook and GE and many others. Oh, and I say that as a long time voter for the Republican side.

Mathematician said:

Please clarify what you mean by "we have the money". Last I checked, the country is in debt. Do you mean "other Americans have money that can be redistributed"?

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Sure, if you want to word it that way.

BretJ said:

Reality is, your idea is a slippery slope. You don't think your idea has not been studied to great length by politicians hoping to score political points? Your idea has been tried to a certain extent. It only works for a little while and then things find their economic equilibrium. Only the numbers change. A fry cook will only ever have the purchasing power of a fry cook. A towel folder will only have the purchasing power of a towel folder. Slippery slope or not, that is reality.

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Actually, Europe is much better than the US in this regard. We should at least follow their example.

BretJ said:

You earn what your skills are worth....your skills are only worth what they bring to the table.

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That's how it works today in the current system, but maybe that's not how it should work. Why should a basketball player earn more money than a soldier? Why should a lawyer who makes his living suing doctors make more money than a nurse who saves lives for a living?

mike2810 said:

Would you not be devaluing more experienced workers if you only raised the minimum wage workers pay? IMO this would be especially true in jobs where there is not much difference between a entry level worker and the first line supervisor.

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Nobody is cutting the experienced worker's salaries. What are you arguing - that they would be jealous? Green with envy?

My sympathies lie with the destitute and starving, not with the people who might be jealous that those on the bottom rung of society are getting lifted up to a livable standard.

Peter Grimm said:

That's how it works today in the current system, but maybe that's not how it should work. Why should a basketball player earn more money than a soldier? Why should a lawyer who makes his living suing doctors make more money than a nurse who saves lives for a living?

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You really have no idea about the US economy, do you?

Demand and supply drive everything.

Take a look at a Business 101 book sometime.

Seriously.

If you worked at minimum wage, it's pretty difficult to afford housing in this area. Most apartments here are at least 800-1400 a month.

Cephus said:

No, but it's not supposed to be. Minimum wage is supposed to be the lowest-end jobs, designed to give high school and college kids who have no real financial responsibilities, the ability to learn a work ethic and gain job skills so they can be promoted to better jobs down the line. They are not intended to raise a family on and anyone who tries to do so is a complete idiot.

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You do know an incredibly sizable portion of minimum wage jobs (perhaps half or less than half) are held by those who do not fit description of "high school" or "college kid" nor will be staffed by "high school" or "college kids", right?

PeteEU said:

Depends on the cost of living in the area.

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It's not a lot of money in any area.

Cephus said:

No, but it's not supposed to be. Minimum wage is supposed to be the lowest-end jobs, designed to give high school and college kids who have no real financial responsibilities, the ability to learn a work ethic and gain job skills so they can be promoted to better jobs down the line. They are not intended to raise a family on and anyone who tries to do so is a complete idiot.

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"These jobs are supposed to suck" isn't a compelling argument.

Deuce said:

"These jobs are supposed to suck" isn't a compelling argument.

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What's yours?

Deuce said:

It's not a lot of money in any area.

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Never said it was alot.. but 15 k a year in New York City is impossible to live on, where as in Mississippi in some areas, it is possible.