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Should the minimum wage be raised?[W:30]

Should the minimum wage be raised?


  • Total voters
    46
Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

About 3.6 million actually paid at or below minimum wage.43.6 million Americans are living in poverty, which means they most likely make barely above minimum wage.

Or living on a combination of SSDI, SNAP, MEDICAID, WIC, and the like.

Have you ever considered that since minimum wage acts as the bottom an employer may pay someone your wages and the wages of every engineer in this country are paid more than 7$ an hour?

If an employer tries that with an engineer he will quickly go out of business for lack of engineers. Price-Fixing schemes are illegal, except, apparently, when the government does them.
 
Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

You are correct. Walmart has been doing that for years. Specifically, they have been doing it for about 4 or 5 years. Since the last time we raised the minimum wage.

Do you ever wonder where all those workers who used to work the checkout lines, but were suddenly unaffordable went? Do you really think that through the magic of the desire to have a free lunch (which is what a MW Hike is), they all found higher paying jobs elsewhere?

The idea those workers are unfordable is completely laughable. Walmart employs 1.4 million people in the US and makes at least 32.64 billion in gross profits. It can easily afford to pay its workers an extra 6- 8 bucks an hour more. Walmart uses those machines to pocket in more profit, not some idiotic idea they can't afford to pay workers more.


Walmart CEO Michael Duke's Pay: More in an Hour Than Workers Get All Year? - ABC News

By Ed Smith's math, the CEO of Walmart earns more in an hour than his employees will earn in a year.

Smith, an alderman in Chicago, presented posters at a city council meeting showing that Walmart CEO Michael Duke's $35 million salary, when converted to an hourly wage, worked out to $16,826.92. By comparison, at a Walmart store planned for the Windy City's Pullman neighborhood, new employees to be paid $8.75 an hour would gross $13,650 a year

Gross Profit for Wal-Mart (WMT) 2012 Q1 - Wikinvest
$32.64 billion
 
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Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

Or living on a combination of SSDI, SNAP, MEDICAID, WIC, and the like.

You do realize that many of those people do work?As a military man if you had a family you would qualify for food stamps.

Food Stamps: Military Families Redeem $100 Million A Year In SNAP Benefits


If an employer tries that with an engineer he will quickly go out of business for lack of engineers.
I am sure there is engineers in China and other countries that would like to take those jobs.

Price-Fixing schemes are illegal, except, apparently, when the government does them.

Price fixing may be illegal but it doesn't change the fact if employer after employer started paying lower wages for engineers then that becomes the standard.
 
Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

About 3.6 million actually paid at or below minimum wage.43.6 million Americans are living in poverty, which means they most likely make barely above minimum wage.



Walmart Employs 1% Of America. Should It Be Forced To Pay Its Employees More? - Business Insider
CHART OF THE DAY: 43.6 Million Americans Living In Poverty Is The Highest Number Ever Recorded - Business Insider




Have you ever considered that since minimum wage acts as the bottom an employer may pay someone your wages and the wages of every engineer in this country are paid more than 7$ an hour?



The poverty level is an interesting number.

In the USA, the poverty level for the contiguous 48 is $15,510 for a household of 2. It's $19,530 for a household of 3.

The average wage world wide, according to the UN is a little under $18,000/year.

Food Stamps are available to those making 130% of the poverty level.

ASPE

BBC News - What is the world's average wage?
 
Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

The idea those workers are unfordable is completely laughable. Walmart employs 1.4 million people in the US and makes at least 32.64 billion in gross profits. It can easily afford to pay its workers an extra 6- 8 bucks an hour more. Walmart uses those machines to pocket in more profit, not some idiotic idea they can't afford to pay workers more.


Walmart CEO Michael Duke's Pay: More in an Hour Than Workers Get All Year? - ABC News

By Ed Smith's math, the CEO of Walmart earns more in an hour than his employees will earn in a year.

Smith, an alderman in Chicago, presented posters at a city council meeting showing that Walmart CEO Michael Duke's $35 million salary, when converted to an hourly wage, worked out to $16,826.92. By comparison, at a Walmart store planned for the Windy City's Pullman neighborhood, new employees to be paid $8.75 an hour would gross $13,650 a year

Gross Profit for Wal-Mart (WMT) 2012 Q1 - Wikinvest
$32.64 billion



Gross profits is a qualified term.

Wal-Mart's Gross Revenue was 469.16 Billion in 2013 with an EBITDA of 36.3 Billion, 7.7%.

7.7% is not extraordinary either too high or too low. If I were an investor, I'd feel better about a 10% level, but that's just me.

WMT Annual Income Statement - Wal-Mart Stores Inc. Annual Financials
 
Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

Thats a good 30-50 years off. Until then, we need companies to be responsible employers and pay people instead of enslave them. Why punish those who are WILLING to be productive individuals? The same people get pissed about people living on public assistence, don't want to reward people who do become a part of productive society. It just puzzles me.

I would guess that the first fast food service robots to be in place within the next couple of years, not 30 to 50. Applebee's already has a pilot to replace servers with Ipads this year. but i do agree that some jobs will be harder to mechanize than others. the pizza deliver person will have to wait until Amazon gets those drone things off the ground. It'll happen more quickly than what you believe.

I am not talking about punishing anyone. I am just saying that if a person takes a job at minimum wage and can't either get a better paying job, educate themselves, or move up in a company, then I don't see a need to improve their wages for their current productivity. People have to put into themselves first.
 
Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

For what purpose? The minimum wage was never intended to be a living wage, it is supposed to be for high school and college students who have very few expenses and are just learning a work ethic. It is meant to be a starting off point where you learn work skills and then get promoted to a wage that you can live on after you move out of your parent's house.

Anyone who is trying to live with a family on minimum wage is a moron.
 
Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

The idea those workers are unfordable is completely laughable

If something costs more than its value-added, it is unaffordable for a business which wishes to remain in business. :shrug:

Look, you don't have to like reality, but it isn't optional. Reality is that regardless of your feelings about it, if you hike the minimum wage, you will reduce the demand for low-skill labor in America, resulting in throwing the people you are nominally trying to help out of a job and onto the street. You don't have to like that reality, but unless you wish to borrow a page from our friends on the left and argue that Hope Can Conquer All, you should acknowledge it.

Walmart employs 1.4 million people in the US and makes at least 32.64 billion in gross profits. It can easily afford to pay its workers an extra 6- 8 bucks an hour more

Incorrect - because WalMart has competitors, and its' business model is Low Prices. Jacking up prices relative to its' competitors is to destroy it's business model, which is to fire those employees when stores start going under, and definitely not to hire any new ones.

Also you may want to check that profit claim. Gross Profit in the last reported year was $116,674,000. Once you pull out all their costs and detractors their net income comes to $16,999,000.

Walmart uses those machines to pocket in more profit

That is correct. And the only reason they are able to do so is because a bunch of idiots in Congress made it profitable to do so, by jacking up labor costs.


:shrug: good for him. He's running the largest company in America, possesses an extremely rarified skill set which he has honed, and is (apparently) doing a great job. His value added to the company is immensely larger than the checkout-clerk, hence, his compensation is larger. If a checkout clerk does a really really good job, what happens? Maybe a few repeat customers, at a return of (max) a few hundred bucks. If a CEO does a really, really good job what happens? Apparently $32.64 Billion in "Gross Profits".






Hey, you know who else makes lots more? You do. Compared to kids in Zambia. Let me know when you want to equalize salaries betwixt the lot of you.

Honestly, the envy angle is depressing to see among conservatives. Look at that rich guy, how mean he is to have so much! The only reason others have little is because he has lots! :roll: Mrs Thatcher rightfully derided that foolishness.

 
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Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

In proportion to what a common worker earned in comparison to a CEO in 1954, today's average employee should be earning around 40 dollars an hour. I can live with half that is regards to minimum wage, and I say that as a Republican.

Being Republican never meant being thieves. It's time to take our party back!
 
Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

In proportion to what a common worker earned in comparison to a CEO in 1954, today's average employee should be earning around 40 dollars an hour. I can live with half that is regards to minimum wage, and I say that as a Republican.

Being Republican never meant being thieves. It's time to take our party back!



I agree that the Republican party is lost and wandering.

When I hear that thing about the top execs making so much more than the rank and file guys, I get curious as to the size of the companies over which the Big Man presides.

In 1954, the S&P 500 looks to have topped out around 40. That same index is now above 1600. That is more than 40 time bigger in terms of dollars.

The guy who sweeps a floor or tightens a bolt or whatever is doing about he did then. The guy at the top is arguably moving much more around than his predecessor of 1954.


stocks-4-1954.jpg
 
Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

I agree that the Republican party is lost and wandering.

When I hear that thing about the top execs making so much more than the rank and file guys, I get curious as to the size of the companies over which the Big Man presides.

In 1954, the S&P 500 looks to have topped out around 40. That same index is now above 1600. That is more than 40 time bigger in terms of dollars.

The guy who sweeps a floor or tightens a bolt or whatever is doing about he did then. The guy at the top is arguably moving much more around than his predecessor of 1954.


stocks-4-1954.jpg

Excellent graph. Thanks for sharing that.
 
Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

Excellent graph. Thanks for sharing that.



I don't know that this justifies the wildly increased earnings of the Big Dogs in the companies. It does indicate the the span of control has grown immensely, though, and the potential for the wildly increased incomes, even at a reduced percent of the pie, might be there.

I was trying to find out what the size of the average U.S. company was in 1954 vs. 2014.

I had no luck in this search. It seems logical that the top guy at the local hamburger stand would have been paid about what the top guy at the local stand is paid today in constant dollars. However, the top guy at the local stand today is not the Big Dog.

The guy who runs McDonalds in 2014 would make more than the guy who ran Earl's Diner over on Main Street in Smalltown USA in 1954.

Anyone know that answer to the average company size difference year over year?
 
Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

In proportion to what a common worker earned in comparison to a CEO in 1954, today's average employee should be earning around 40 dollars an hour. I can live with half that is regards to minimum wage, and I say that as a Republican.

Being Republican never meant being thieves. It's time to take our party back!

What does CEO pay have to do with the pay of the entry level worker? Your discussion ends up talking about the minimum wage which, when adjusted for inflation, was actually a bit higher in 2013 than in 1955.

Federal Minimum Wage Rates, 1955

Your complaint seems to be that stock index prices have beaten general inflation (since 1954) by about 4X - which has absolutely nothing to do with the minimum wage level.
 
Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

In proportion to what a common worker earned in comparison to a CEO in 1954, today's average employee should be earning around 40 dollars an hour

We live in an economy in which intellectual labor leverages greater technology and economy of scale to have greater value-added than standard labor. There is no reason we should adopt the high-point in worker to ceo value added as a benchmark, or indeed, any benchmark at all.

Again, the envy angle is cheap, tawdry, and a tool for those who prefer emotions to reason. Feel free to listen to Mrs Thatcher take down Jamesrage above.
 
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